Hi I have noticed that a particular maintainer for their various projects here on drupal.org essentially answers many issues that are opened by users by saying they would need to purchase "premium support" in order to get help for a feature or question. I don't know but this just sort of seems to be not quite in the spirt of drupal.org. I don't have an issue with anyone running a commercial site for profit selling support or products but to push people toward that model in the issue queue just does not seem right.

Mind you, it's not just once but in several issues. I think this could be a turn off to potential new users of Drupal looking to get started and might get the wrong impression of what open source and drupal is all about. I've decided to start answering some of these user's questions myself and have already done so as some of the questions are fairly trivial in nature. Perhaps that is the only solution needed here...

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#24 2013-03-20_11-26-38.png28.66 KBdanny englander

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mr.baileys’s picture

mr.baileys
Primary language Dutch
Location 🇧🇪 (Ghent)
commented

I'm guessing you are talking about the same user that was warned about project page content in #1670204: obnoxious theme teasers.

While I can sometimes understand requests for sponsorship when it comes to more difficult features or time-consuming tasks, I tend to agree with you that in this case, typing

"You can change the background image by doing XYZ"

is just as easy to type as

"Please pay us so we can answer your relatively simple question"

... and as such it does feel as if the user is using drupal.org as a commercial tool.

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

@mr.baileys - yes indeed that is the user. I did not want to backstab publicly but seeing that this has already been a public issue recently... I agree he is clearly using drupal.org as a commercial tool, it's evident in several issues opened by users of his themes.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

Really Sorry for my mistake.. I will correct myself hereafter..

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

Hereafter, I will not repeat this mistake.. Please forgive me..

WorldFallz’s picture

WorldFallz commented

imo this is just the last straw in a long string of second...third...fourth... chances, but I'm waiting to see what greggles thinks.

mr.baileys’s picture

mr.baileys
Primary language Dutch
Location 🇧🇪 (Ghent)
commented

@saran.quardz: it is not clear to me if you understand what exactly the problem is. From this issue, and from #1670204: obnoxious theme teasers, it seems like you see drupal.org as a way to generate money. It also seems as if you are trying to find out just how far you can go without crossing boundaries. There is nothing wrong with a donate button (as long as it is not too invasive, as was discussed in the other issue), and it is even acceptable to offer to do certain types of work in exchange for sponsoring.

However:

  • As highrockmedia showed by answering some of the questions in your queues, sometimes you reply with "please pay me" (paraphrased), even when it would take you very little time to actually help out and provide an answer or point them in the right direction.
  • It is not acceptable to mark issues "Closed (duplicate)" with a message indicating the solution is available against payment. By doing this, you prevent other community members from helping out the original poster, and you prevent collaboration and contribution.

Personally (and not speaking as a webmaster), I think you should shift your mindset from a commercial one to an open-source one if you wish to keep maintaining your projects on Drupal.org. Remember, Drupal.org is about collaboration, it is not an app-store.

If you are unsure if certain actions are acceptable, you can always log on to #drupal-contribute and ask.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

@mr.baileys I understand the mistake which i done on Issue Queue, recently.. Hereafter, I will not repeat those mistakes..

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

Hi all, I hate to open an old can of worms here. I know this looks like I'm a stalker but it seems the tactics have changed, now it's a matter of simply not paying attention to the issue queue. Here is just a sampling of issues opened that have not been answered or at least commented on by the maintainer.

#1855484: Any way to change the hyperlinked font color? - November 30, 2012
#1851156: footer_fourth missing - November 26, 2012
#1792210: Changing Colour of bottom, top and background - September 22, 2012
#1837036: submitted not localized - November 9, 2012
#1794268: Title with an Apostrophe replaced with &#039 only in Professionnal theme (not others) - September 25, 2012
#1799186: Please fix not localized element - September 29, 2012
#1838824: IE8 Compatibility on Windows XP Machine - November 12, 2012
#1850796: 'alt' Atribute in slides - November 26, 2012
#1816114: nivoslider js error - October 17, 2012
#1824512: Moving the menu. - October 26, 2012
#1774380: Slideshow Changes - September 4, 2012
#1797834: New slides and links - September 28, 2012
#1820230: Hiding empty social links - October 22, 2012 (patch offered)
#1800922: Remove title and nav from slider - October 2, 2012
#1820574: Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in theme_links() - October 23, 2012

I hate doing this as it feels a bit 'back-stabish' but now that I am a full Drupal contributor with my own project, I've realized the responsibilities that come along with it. So perhaps instead of releasing a new theme every two weeks, help out your fellow drupalers who are already using your themes? Many of these are 30 days or more since they've been opened and some are already a few months old. In many cases, the issues above are trivial and might take 5 minutes to answer. Note, this is just a sampling, there's more than than those above that have not been answered as well.

I'll leave you with this quote by Dries:

You need to realize that if you created a Drupal module that thousands of people depend upon, you created a successful Open Source project. Successful Open Source projects need responsible maintainers in order to sustain.

From: http://buytaert.net/responsible-maintainers

Note, I realize that people get sick or have family emergencies or tragedies or other so if that's the case, I apologize ahead of time.

silverwing’s picture

silverwing commented

On December 3, 2012 saran.quardz edited all his projects to correct the Paypal link.

Perhaps we need to add a "Support status" in addition to Maintenance and Development status to the Project Information section (and allow webmasters to change it as warranted.

It's a shame that he puts more effort into the Paypal links than into the community of users we have.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

@silverwing Because of Legal issue with Donate button, http://netprofitstoday.com/blog/thinking-about-using-that-paypal-donate-... I changed the link on that day..

@highrockmedia Except #1816114: nivoslider js error , All other issues are user specific customization change request, which can not be commit to the project repositories . If it is a Bug issues, I can commit the changes to the Project repositories and make it closed. I dont know what to do with the Non Bug Issues.

For past few months, I am working on a few new free themes and distributions to be released in the drupal.org. So, I dont get time to look into Issues.. Hereafter, I will invest my time in resolving my Project Issues..

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

@saran.quardz - I am not entirely sure you understand the spirit of drupal.org and open source. It's not a personal marketing vehicle as explained before. One of your users offered up a patch for one of your themes a few months ago but it was never acknowledged.

see: #1820230: Hiding empty social links

That's the spirt of collaboration. In this case you were offered a gift by a user.

If someone has a feature request, best practices say to acknowledge it and update the issue category. (There's a setting for that.). I just had a feature request for my theme and I answered the poster back. I don't have time for the request right now as I am pretty busy with paid dev work but I think it's a valid request that I think would be a nice addition. Am I going to ask for payment for that? No. Now if the user goes to my website and contacts me privately on his own accord, that's a different story but I'm not going to channel people to that model.

In the end, you might just end up with more hostility like this one:
http://drupal.org/node/1792210#comment-6528562

Just my 2 cents but you might want to take a look at sites like Theme Forest for what you are trying to do, they have a nice paid author system with good commissions for selling your themes.

mheinke’s picture

mheinke commented

any of the issues in the "Professional Theme" that are in this list i have supplied patches and or instructions to fix.

it is my intention to become a maintainer for the project.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

Hi mheinke,

I have made you as maintainer of the Professional Theme.

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

Sorry again to dredge this up, but just adding the issue below for reference, I am wondering about forking a project vs. taking over a project:
#1942092: Mainstream Responsive Theme

It seems to me that it would probably be better to take it over rather than fork?

@saran.quardz - I am also concerned that you added another theme to drupal.org a few weeks ago but yet there are still many issues and some user supplied patches in your current themes that need attention. Isn't quality better than quantity? I wrote a little blog post that might be relevant.

I am also concerned with this language on your project pages:

Nevertheless, sometimes there might be needs related to a theme that go beyond the typical support and knowledge sharing and require either premium support or even implementation-on-request.

Just wondering how you define what's "beyond the typical support and knowledge sharing"...

mheinke’s picture

mheinke commented

@Highrockmedia,
Forking is a re-branding play as much as it is just getting full maintainer-ship.

i'm having issues with the "pay us to fix it" language that the theme has. and i believe it is turning users away from a pretty good theme. and it goes against my personal views of what a contributed theme on drupal.org should be

oh and great blog post btw.

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

I agree with you 100% as far as the "pay us to fix it" mentality, it's just plain wrong in the spirit of drupal.org, I am simply suggesting that it might be a better course of action to take over as full maintainer but I could be misguided about that as I may not be seeing all the nuances here.

Also for reference, could you point to the actual issue you filed to report the project as abandoned per drupal.org guidelines? I don't see it anywhere.

mheinke’s picture

mheinke commented

My feeling is, the lack of support and the language has turned away people who would otherwise use the theme...so keeping the same name will not allow me to get those people back.

thats why a clean fork, i may be able to gain support and build a user base from people who would not use the theme as it currently is

thats just my thoughts. (its also much easier to make a new project then apply for maintainership through d.o)

WorldFallz’s picture

WorldFallz commented

Usually random forking is discouraged wrt to modules (for many different reasons). imo though, it's different when it comes to themes. However, if you're just planning to keep it exactly the same with a different maintainer I think that's falls under the 'take over maintainership' umbrella.

WorldFallz’s picture

WorldFallz commented

And if you do take over maintainership, you're free to rebrand as you see fit-- with the exception of the project name of course.

mheinke’s picture

mheinke commented

@WorldFallz

I dont believe this would be a "random" fork, i have a really good reason.

like i said, users have been turned away due to the lack of support and verbaige on the project page. people who would otherwise use the theme arnt because an issue will sit unresolved.

the name "professional theme" has been tainted by that. a fork with a new name (but proper attribution of course) will allow me to start with a new user base and a clean track record.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

@highrockmedia

http://drupal.org/node/1929390
http://drupal.org/node/1929396
http://drupal.org/node/1929380

Please check this links which will show my latest theme security updates in the recent days. I have made these updates across this themes. If you refer any of my project details or text content. Please provide me URL that can guide through or be a proof what you say. And I am working on my themes old and new in my available time. I am trying to fix the issue in my available time.

I will be more than happy to fix all these issues at the earliest. Most of the bug that is reported are not bugs but mostly feature request. I want to keep my theme simple and limited. All valid bugs will be fixed ASAP.

@mheinke

I am more than happy to receive your commit to my theme. I was actually awaiting and never got a mail notification to release your commit. Now, I have given you the full permission to release the theme version.

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented

@saran.quardz - I beg to differ, many of the above issues I pointed out have still not even been addressed or attended to. So the implication is, if someone asks, "how do I change this color", you consider that a feature request and therefore need to charge for it? That seems preposterous to me. Would't it be nice to simply say, "you can alter this class or Id"? The three links you point to above were mandatory drupal.org security fixes, nothing to do with your issue queues.

This issue still needs attentding to, I supplied a patch but you seemed to have ignored it.

#1670748: Insecure warnings using SSL with Google fonts

Here are some patches and features that other users have supplied but you've never even acknowledged them:

#1820230: Hiding empty social links
#1812316: style-rtl.css
#1875276: Make subtheme-friendly

... and here are some new issues that I would not regard as feature requests, to me they are either bugs, fall under the standard level of support or simply documentation clarification to the user asking for support.
#1929212: Problem with internationalization module
#1927028: Change copyright info at bottom
#1942846: cannot upload custom logo
#1851156: footer_fourth missing
#1912548: Sidebar can be Right or Left?
#1913156: google fonts
#1912010: Arrange Menu and upload Company Logo
#1816114: nivoslider js error
#1932108: wide side margins on small screens

etc.. etc..

In general, the pattern seems to be that someone asks a question in one of your issue queues and it goes unanswered, sometimes for several months. I think best maintainer practices dictate that you at least acknowledge them.

devsaran’s picture

devsaran commented

Please do not accuse of something that I have not done.

WHERE IN THE POSTS HAVE I ASKED ANYBODY TO PAY FOR ME TO FIX.

If you are accusing me of something please be ready with a proof.

Please do not just force me out. I am trying to accommodate everything in my busy schedule. So let me do my work. I'll try to fix all valid bugs. I know how to classify a bug to be valid or invalid and the open tickets I've not yet validated.

please be patient.

Thanks in advance.

danny englander’s picture

danny englander
(he/him)
commented
StatusFileSize
new issue-1741476.png28.66 KB

@saran.quardz - I don't think anyone is forcing you out. I think this is the point where we simply agree to disagree. What I consider just a simple suggestion of a few lines of code for a user you consider "premium support."

#1741476: Turn off slideshow after user logs in

This Customization is covered under premium Support.

... not to mention all that had gone on in:

#1670204: obnoxious theme teasers

I supposed at this point, we should just close this issue and go our merry ways.

dddave’s picture

dddave commented
Issue summary: View changes
Status: Active » Closed (fixed)