
By greggles on
Does anyone know of a Drupal Hosting/Consulting provider that offers a service level agreement?
Something including:
+ If your site breaks we will fix it in X hours.
+ If your site has a security breach, we will fix it and get you back running in X hours.
I imagined that Bryght would provide these kinds of things, but they do not seem to.
Greg
Comments
uh, of course
fix security holes in X hours? sure thing, and I have discovered a broomstick which lets you fly to the moon.
On a more serious side, You need a top grade C coder who can fix Apache and PHP secholes and someone else to do the same in PHP language, with Drupal. I have not mentioned the OS -- you surely will want to run this on OpenBSD. Having this kind of manpower on call 24/7 will cost you two arms and a leg.
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I mostly ask because Scott
I mostly ask because Scott Goodwin just mentioned in an article that the "major differentiating factor between OS and proprietary, when it comes to CMS, structured support and accountability of a 'for pay' system"
http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gc...
While there is plenty of support in the forums, irc, mailing lists, etc. what about a paid "we gaurantee" kind of support?
I was surprised that I couldn't find paid support that included some sort of service level agreement. The closest thing was:
http://www.longsight.com/service-level-agreement
Though they provide the support for their solutions and not necessarily for Drupal. You'd have to buy a custom Drupal solution from them to get their SLA.
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Out of context
The full quote reads
Having used and supported both proprietary and open source apps, the access to "structured support" frequently translates into frustrating conversations with people who appear to have more training foisting blame onto different parts of your setup (Microsoft tech: The problem lies in Product X; Product X tech: The problem lies with Microsoft) than in actually solving problems.
In my experience, quality support costs money. The only way to be cost effective is to hire your support carefully -- make sure you are hiring a consultant/service who understands your needs and will commit to meeting them in a realistic time frame.
Anybody can promise to meet an unrealistic demand. Trying to get them to make good on that promise? If you can figure out how to make that happen, please post back :)
EDIT: after re-reading my post, I realized that what I wrote could be construed as a criticism of The Longsight Group's SLA -- definitely not intended -- their SLA is a fair and realistic document that accurately defines a robust and sustainable level of support END EDIT
Cheers,
Bill
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I'm not sure how the context
I'm not sure how the context you provided changes the discussion, but fair enough.
I agree that "Structured Support" from a proprietary vendor can be problematic in its own way.
However, during the sales cycle a purchaser is going to have check boxes for each of his criteria and one of those is going to be "Availability of Support." Even if it isn't very good, the presence of a provider of paid support can close the deal where "support forums, IRC, and email" often can't.
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RE
RE
Given that your initial question asked about response time to security fixes, the full quote I provided gave a clearer, more complete picture of Goodwin's opinion concerning the relative security of OS cms'es vs. proprietary cms'es.
But, maybe you've caught me on one of my overly precise days. Stranger things have happened.
RE an SLA/Availability of Support as standard business practice -- I would not recommend working with a consultant who wouldn't offer support. It seems to go without saying that a person should stand behind their work.
Cheers,
Bill
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that's a given Bill
I agree with you, that's a given, Bill. but there's a seismic leap from providing after sales support/training and providing an SLA that stipulates in hours how long it will take to sort out problems.
If a consultant/designers/programmer/site developer said to me that they could guarantee that it would only take [n] hours to sort out any problems, I would be very dubious at best.
Dub
Currently in Switzerland working as an Application Developer with UBS Investment Bank...using Drupal 7 and lots of swiss chocolate
Absolutely
RE:
No argument at all. Anybody who can predict how long it will take them to fix an unpredicted problem arising from unknown causes should be viewed with skepticism.
Offering that as a blanket guarantee would be insupportable.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Ok, guys - the point of an
Ok, guys - the point of an SLA is not necessarily that it will get fixed in that time, but that if it doesn't get fixed there is a documented remedy in advance which doesn't need to be argued about while the server is down.
And you accused me of naivete... ;)
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
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I'd feel quite a bit
I'd feel quite a bit uncomfortable about signing such an agreement. This is mainly because a website is a complex thing which goes way beyond the CMS used. Also, I wouldn't be protected from clients messing with their stuff and then calling support...
I think that if you do require such kind of services you should look for a hosted solution. Those people will have control of their servers and it is in their own interest to not let anybody breach into them.
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two cents
Hi Greg,
Interesting question. While we have never had a site go down or, touch wood, had a security breach...and we have never been asked for what you outlined, i.e.:
+ If your site breaks we will fix it in X hours.
+ If your site has a security breach, we will fix it and get you back running in X hours.
What about tweaking it to a more realistic, worst case scenario of:
+ if your site breaks, or has a security breach, we automatically switch to an alternate backup/mirror server which is, at worst, [n] hours behind. So your site is re-active within a shortspace of time.
+ we then identify the source of the breach or break.
+ we then fix the breach/break to avoid subsequent occurances.
the way Drupal is structured, i.e. seperate files, modules and database, I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to switch to an automated incremental backup/mirror. While at the same time having standard host backups (usually daily) to fall back on if there is a serious security breach - such as a disgruntled user with permissions who causes mayhem
Dub
Currently in Switzerland working as an Application Developer with UBS Investment Bank...using Drupal 7 and lots of swiss chocolate
Killes and DublinDrupaller -
Killes and DublinDrupaller -
In my experience on a software support team for a proprietary software system we had Service Level Agreements for our customers which included a lot of different terms and conditions.
I'm now regretting putting out those two items - my question was not asked because I want to get such an agreement, but because I'm curious if anyone has anything like this in place. I take it from the responses that there is nobody offering such a formalized outside of LongSight.
Thanks for the feedback.
Greg
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interesting..
Hi Greg,
I'm slightly confused with what you're saying.
SLA's are fairly standard for turn-key solutions. Such as proprietary software products that, routinely, have a built in additional cost that covers after-sales support.
I used to work in localisation a few years ago and we always used to chuckle at how proprietary software is packaged in a sealed envelope. If you ever take the time to read one, you'll notice mentions of "once you break the seal", "you are using this at your own risk".."we are not responsible for anything" etcetera. and the world famous READ THIS FIRST messages. I vividly remember them because the translators used to have a tough time translating some of them. especially for certain territories, where consumer rights are strong.
Unfortunately, it's quite normal for proprietary software companies to use their customers as guinea pigs...I won't mention any names, but, it was quite standard to unleash a proprietary, turn key software product by some huge companies and the support centre was essentially a software debugging centre. Where queries and problems submitted to the support centre were really bug reporting. And the company would invariably rush release a second x.1 version once they (or really the consumer) had identified any bugs.
The reason I have never been asked for the two questions you mentioned in your post, is because Drupal is not a turn-key solution and while I can only speak for myself, my guess is Drupallers are hired for customisation & consultative services rather than developing a turn-key software product/solution. And are therefore covered by standard service agreements.
So while it's an interesting question you raised I'm not sure if you have grasped what Drupal is about.
Apologies in advance if I'm incorrect, but, your query would be more appropriate for a software development company or a hosting company, for example. And even at that level, I would guarantee you that the VCs will ensure the small print on those READ ME FIRST documents cover their proverbial butt against legal action in case something doesn't work as it should.
A typical "Drupal project" if there is such a thing is more design & consultancy based with the hosting/back end support level agreement with the host. I'm not surprised that Bryght don't provide what you mentioned.
I think most savvy clients would question the professionalism of any programmer,designer or consultant who would guarantee, in a written contract, a specific amount of hours to sort out any or all glitches, as part of an SLA - as you outlined. The words dubious and suspect springs to my mind.
hope that makes sense..
Dub
Currently in Switzerland working as an Application Developer with UBS Investment Bank...using Drupal 7 and lots of swiss chocolate
let's start over
Hi,
Forget the two items I entered. Replace them with whatever "structured support and accountability" means to you.
Is there anyone that offers "structured support and accountability" for a Drupal based site?
I don't care about cost, or how difficult it would be, or anything else because I'm not going to buy it - I'm just asking theoretically.
Thanks,
Greg
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the quick answer is yes.
stating the obvious a bit here, but, Yes. Of course.
And before you ask the next question, apart from a standard NDA and an IP & Copyright transfer agreement, it depends on the project what goes in that "structured support & accountability" agreement.
Dub
Currently in Switzerland working as an Application Developer with UBS Investment Bank...using Drupal 7 and lots of swiss chocolate
paid support with hosting
As already discussed Drupal is a lot different from your "regular software". Your best bet would be finding two-in-one solution (hosting and developing) but I doubt if you could get someone to sign SLA.
Sure, you can find someone to fix your site in case one of the users messes it up. In case there is a major security breach not because of how your Drupal site is configured but because of Drupal itself then you can not expect a solution in x hours.
Unless
Unless it's a proven company that's migrating to drupal, i can't see many hosts that will provide an SLA agreement in place of their existing support agreements (i.e. if they provide 24/7 telephone support etc.).
Alot of the time they are like Microsoft and blame it either on product X that you have installed, or due to a mistake you may have made when installing the software.
The way i would go is if you have a site developer, get the SLA out of them, and not your host.
On LongSight
Gregg
Did you notice that the web page does not mention Drupal specifically?
Moreover, it is dated March 2003, and has this quote in the exceptions section:
Which can be taken to include Drupal and other Open Source.
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I definitely noticed that.
I definitely noticed that. The page says "2003" at the bottom, but seems to have been edited/added to the Drupal version of their website on August 10, 2005.
It seems that it is simply a more standard SLA and not a Drupal specific one.
Greg
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