Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 13 February 2023 [#3341399]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Now happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3341399`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

Royal Simpson Pinto	Hello, I’m Royal.Exploring this project to learn more about it :)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California :wave:
hestenet (he/him)	Tim from the DA, Portland, OR
ccjjmartin	Chris, Engineer at Four Kitchens :wave:
cruno	Chris Runo, Solutions Architect @ Interpersonal Frequency
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Hi! Late today
shelane	I'm here. Just had to add my 2 cents to module adoption.
quietone	Hi
markdorison	Hi! Mark from Chromatic here. Catching up on things!
MegaChriz	Youri, from the Netherlands 🙂
VladimirAus	Vladimir, Australia
irinaz	Irina, California, checkin later

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

Kristen Pol (she/her)	Are there any contributed modules/themes that people are still waiting on a D10 release and are really "needing" (i.e. do we need to ping any maintainers and/or try to do the abandoned project process for anything)
ccjjmartin	Contrib module upgrade status in general (percentages of total)?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Might be worth putting this as its own thread for names:Soliciting volunteers: We need a list of people who are willing/able to be short term maintainers to take over abandoned modules/themes and get them at least a D10-compatible dev release

2️⃣ Is there interest in continuing these meetings? Attendance seems to be low even as we are only every other week.

3️⃣ Are there any contributed modules/themes that people are still waiting on a D10 release and are really “needing” (i.e. do we need to ping any maintainers and/or try to do the abandoned project process for anything)

Kristen Pol (she/her)	I was wondering the same... maybe switch to monthly? Still might be useful to check in "regularly" but perhaps just even less often
hestenet (he/him)	Maybe we can rally more interest with more concerted contrib module needs (per thread 3️⃣ ) - or maybe it's time to start thinking about the d11 readiness channel name changeover? :smile:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C03L6441E1W already exists for Drupal 11 🙂
Kristen Pol (she/her)	True... maybe these meetings morph into a D10/D11 combo?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	For 9 to 10 we kept the channels separate so people can get help with tricky D9 to D10 API changes and project concerns without any fear of intertwining with the next major version.
hestenet (he/him)	I missed that the d11 channel was already created! Joining now
ccjjmartin	I would guess a new wave of people start getting interested as sites need to be upgraded. Keeping the frequency could be useful to answer questions / get contrib up to date.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I guess if we got enough people to help with this then we can do status updates every couple weeks on ithttps://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1676317370894339
MegaChriz	I think it is good to continue these meetings every 2 weeks, even if some of them may be quiet. This way we can keep the topic more active.Maybe each meeting we could highlight a project that needs a D10 release and encourage the attendees to help review and test it?And then hope that it results into a D10 release of that project before the next meeting.
VladimirAus	Probably good to switch to D11 thread 6 months after D10 release (May).People are sending personal messages to me to look into D10 compatibility of different modules. :man-shrugging:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	We have quite a few volunteers to help with abandoned projects so switch my suggestion to keeping it for now so we can coordinate
MegaChriz	I'm looking at what colors to use when for the column "Last merge" now.
MegaChriz	I see all 2020 and 2021 are red
MegaChriz	Anything from November 2022 is green. Anything else in 2020 is yellow?
MegaChriz	I did sorting by choosing the option 'Blad sorteren' (Dutch for 'Sort sheet'), using the Filter Views option didn't seem to get the thing sorted in my case.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks… I’m heading out for a long drive and won’t be at my computer for at least 5 hours… I’ll try to look then
Juraj Nemec	@Kristen Pol (she/her) Thanks!
Juraj Nemec	Maybe we should consider if adding a lot of small modules now is a good idea, because if there would be 200-300 modules, it can get quite cluttered, especially when we still have a few top modules, that are still missing a D10 release 🙂
Juraj Nemec	But yeah, there are those filters, so probably it's not that big deal
Kristen Pol (she/her)	The initial idea was for people to nominate things that they personally need for work/client/personal sites… otherwise, we could have just looked at the Acquia list to pick from. I was hoping to make it more aligned to people’s current needs, especially if they are also volunteering to adopt stuff… as things get fixed, we can move to a different tab? (Though that risks people missing those when reviewing the sheet)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Also small modules could help people get a taste of this who may then leap for bigger ones :wink:

Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3313158: Drupal 10 compatibility
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3287465: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
Kristen Pol (she/her)	(I forgot I have access to fast_404 so could potentially do that one)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3296538: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3285987: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3298024: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
Juraj Nemec	#3304436: Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
smustgrave	https://www.drupal.org/project/csv_serialization
smustgrave	https://www.drupal.org/project/views_fieldsets
Juraj Nemec	#3330022: Drupal 10 compatibility (Fixed all tests)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm wondering if we could get a list of people who are willing to become short term maintainers to get these fixes in and them we can divvy up these projects amongst ourselves so we can get at minimum a dev release available
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm willing to help with this
smustgrave	Also willing to help. I took over a few modules that interested me for d10 but not all do
cruno	#3287468: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
cruno	#3286636: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
Kristen Pol (she/her)	If you are open to helping, add your name here https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1676317370894339
mstrelan	It would be nice for linkit to have a non-dev release so we don't need to downgrade stability.
markdorison	#3297887: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
markdorison	#3337761: Plan to 2.0.0
markdorison	https://www.drupal.org/project/current_page_crumb
markdorison	#3297918: Automated Drupal 10 compatibility fixes
MegaChriz	[#3289257]I requested also to enable automated tests for this project, so the bot can test the patch on D10.
MegaChriz	[#3329451]Also would benefit for having branch tests configured.
MegaChriz	I think there are about 40 modules more that I use that don't have a D10 release yet, but some of them look like to have a D10 compatible patch, so for these I probably could use the lenient plugin.But I think that first every module that I use needs to have at least a D10 compatible patch before it makes sense to use the lenient plugin.
VladimirAus	@Kristen Pol (she/her) happy to look into upgrading modules and help out.
VladimirAus	Drupal 10 support/releases so far this month:https://www.drupal.org/project/paragraphs_viewmode/releases/8.x-1.1https...
heddn	#3302607: Drupal 10 compatibility fixes(edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I think I got everything into this spreadsheet (which should be comment-able)... let me know if I missed anything:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jUv6jkLM9u49hqCcgf-4W9bIEKEhsfJ-...
Kristen Pol (she/her)	A couple above already got D10 releases in the last few days :+1:
smustgrave	Did one more lap of a project of minehttps://www.drupal.org/project/csv_serializationhttps://www.drupal.org/p... of course linket, entity_embed_ ckeditor_iframe, few ckeditor ones that are stuck on updating to ckeditor5.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Those are on the tab except the ckeditor5 stuck ones
shelane	https://www.drupal.org/project/pathologichttps://www.drupal.org/project/...
shelane	https://www.drupal.org/project/simplesamlphp_authhttps://www.drupal.org/...
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I've added all of the above to the spreadsheet afaict ... going to park this for now and let people self-assign projects via the spreadsheet (add a comment or DM me for edit access)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1676581856100669?thread_t...
MegaChriz	@Kristen Pol (she/her) Would it be good to order the projects alphabetically? Then I can more easily see which ones I'd like to add to the list.
Juraj Nemec	Or probably add usage of each project to help some prioritization?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I’ll add usage and add column sort and add views in a bit
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I've added a usage column and added sorting but please use the menu "Data > Filter views > [pick a preset sort]" because we are all in the sheet and don't want to change it for others
Kristen Pol (she/her)	For the default, I've sorted by project name alphabetically
Kristen Pol (she/her)	For other editors, if you add more projects, please just resort by project name after adding more, so it's in order... thanks!
MegaChriz	@Kristen Pol (she/her) I've added a bunch of projects, for some I filled in all information (except the usage number as that is new information I hadn't prepared that in my spreadsheet), but not all of them.
MegaChriz	I'm looking at what colors to use when for the column "Last merge" now.
MegaChriz	I see all 2020 and 2021 are red
MegaChriz	Anything from November 2022 is green. Anything else in 2020 is yellow?
MegaChriz	I did sorting by choosing the option 'Blad sorteren' (Dutch for 'Sort sheet'), using the Filter Views option didn't seem to get the thing sorted in my case.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks… I’m heading out for a long drive and won’t be at my computer for at least 5 hours… I’ll try to look then
Juraj Nemec	@Kristen Pol (she/her) Thanks!
Juraj Nemec	Maybe we should consider if adding a lot of small modules now is a good idea, because if there would be 200-300 modules, it can get quite cluttered, especially when we still have a few top modules, that are still missing a D10 release 🙂
Juraj Nemec	But yeah, there are those filters, so probably it's not that big deal
Kristen Pol (she/her)	The initial idea was for people to nominate things that they personally need for work/client/personal sites… otherwise, we could have just looked at the Acquia list to pick from. I was hoping to make it more aligned to people’s current needs, especially if they are also volunteering to adopt stuff… as things get fixed, we can move to a different tab? (Though that risks people missing those when reviewing the sheet)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Also small modules could help people get a taste of this who may then leap for bigger ones :wink:

4️⃣ Soliciting volunteers: We need a list of people who are willing/able to be short term maintainers to take over abandoned modules/themes and get them at least a D10-compatible dev release

Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm open to help with this and help organize volunteers (i.e. create a spreadsheet of top modules/themes and ping people for who will work on what)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@smustgrave offered help here too via the other thread
ccjjmartin	I could pick up a few.
cmlara	I would suggest if a maintainer is only adopting it for the D10 update that they switch the modules status to not actively maintained when done.I've seen a good number of the D9 adopted modules that either duplicated the features of another module, were doable without a module, or likely just were not actually needed anymore, be adopted and made D9 compatible. In ways it feels like its actually made it harder to search the module list as very active D9 modules were hidden by these modules being brought back into the fold. (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	That makes sense to me
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) am I allowed to make issues in the core issue queue (assigned to me) to organize this effort or is that considered a “no no”?
greg-boggs	When we started helping with this for D8, I made a project to organize it. Went well at first, but then after burn out kicked in, we used it significantly less:
greg-boggs	https://www.drupal.org/project/maintainers
greg-boggs	We started really organized, but keeping the sheet up to date became extra steps that no one felt up for:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UMd7r3iBJKHJrEBuhApJFcGRoa02DOI4...
greg-boggs	@cmlara for modules that should not be ported, the task is to remove the releases on it, and update the project description to explain how to solve it in D10 🙂
greg-boggs	That way it's not hanging out as a goto solution for poor folks to find in google.
smustgrave	I definitely like the concept. Sometimes when I take over a module there’s not of users around to review the changes anymore. So having a group of people look after a module seems like a good alternative. “Take a village” right
greg-boggs	I think the magic here would be to have a person who was paid to do this work.
greg-boggs	I can do a lot when I'm between projects at work, or between jobs, but when my work is cruising along, having extra energy is difficult.
shelane	I adopted a couple of modules to update them from 8 to 9. These modules were really duplicates of others in functionality. But, to give users time to migrate to a different module later, I updated. I have since marked them as unsupported, edited the project page to show that it has been replace by another module, etc. Unfortunately, over a year later, the usage on those still seems way too high.
greg-boggs	Yea, people don't do their updates. That's why automatic updates is such a big deal.
shelane	That said, there are a number of modules that I use that really need to be updated and it looks like the maintainers just aren't doing anything. When I get closer to ready to update my site to D10, I'll kick the tires on being able to take over those.
greg-boggs	We're trying to launch my main project on D9 right now, but I may arm twist us into D10 early so I can spend some time on converting modules too.
darvanen	I can help from mid-March
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Kristen Pol (she/her) it's not a core issue so not to be opened there IMHo, a coordination project is a good idea though :)
cmlara	I don’t believe automatic updates will really solve the issue that “this module isn’t needed remove it”.What I observed was (probably) “it’s less effort for us to add one or two lines or php code to this existing module and keep using it for D9 than it is to investigate restructuring our data” which means they hit the same subject in D10 and will hit the same issue again in D11. Automatic updates may actually make that worse if you are not actively maintaining the sites and just letting them roll up, you start wanting to just update a single source.Don’t get me wrong, having to use tricks like the compatibility plugin is not the most user friendly experience, I just think that sometimes that the small pain points adding up is exactly what is needed to spur someone to step up to the plate and lead long term development (or make the leap for long term changes to their site)
Mile23	Is there a list of projects? Some might align with what $WORK might need.
greg-boggs	Once we have automatic updates, module maintainers can maintain our modules in a way that automatic updates can work with 🙂 (edited)
lleber	I can probably take on a couple so long as they are in use on my employer's properties and aren't in too rough of shape.Most recently, juicebox has been a blocker for one client site. Green patch submitted this weekend. (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks for the discussion, good stuff 🙂Organizing can happen using the #contribution-events project if need be though maybe maintainers makes more sense in this case? I'm not on that project afaicr.Assessing if releases should be removed and updating the project page should be part of the process. Not all should have releases removed though. Some may be good projects but just need new active maintainers.For those projects that should still have releases, ideally, the short term maintainer would check the issue queue for any low-hanging-fruit issues that have been RTBCed and get any of those in that make sense. This is a "nice to have".Aligning to your company/org/client's needs is good if you can, so ideally people are getting paid for their time.
markdorison	I can pitch in a bit on this.
greg-boggs	@markdorison nice.
MegaChriz	I'm willing to help on a few projects - and be available for future security issues on these too.
kevinquillen	add me
VladimirAus	happy to help :raised_hand_with_fingers_splayed:
shelane	Also, what does “short term maintainer” mean?
lleber	Hopefully it's as simple as one commit every two years to fix everything that core broke :smile:.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Or not signing up to maintain the module but rather to get it over to Drupal 10 and keep it unmaintained then as it were before mostly.
damienmckenna	Am happy to help and mentor others, and use my weekly meeting for the effort (Thursday, 1pm Eastern US time).
shelane	Can I get access as a maintainer, do what's needed an unlist myself as maintainer if making the module unsupported? I'm wondering that about ones I've done as well because they're no need to have them listed on my profile when they aren't active modules.
heddn	add @heddn please to the list. I've already reached out on several projects and now have commit access on them. but there are still some missing.
smustgrave	Just want to support what was said earlier. That if we do this, not sure how it was done in the past, that the module be marked not maintained.
heddn	Well, in some cases, my short-term might become longer-term. but in general if it is a drive-by update to drupal 10, then marking as non- maintained seems like the obvious status to leave the project.
MegaChriz	I leave myself on the project in such cases and note on the project page that I only deal with security issues for the project if they come up. At least, that's what I did for the Zircon project. But that project has other maintainers too.
lleber	All of the dogs and cats of the Centre County PAWS animal rescue thank you for your Zircon contribution, sir :smile:
MegaChriz	Thank you @lleber. Well all I did for that project was reviewing a patch that fixed the security issue and then created a new release. :smile: Okay, I did add some additional co-maintainers too.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks everyone! We’re getting a great list of volunteers:) I’ll make an issue and spreadsheet soon to organize ourselves… I’ll have a list of target projects where people can self assign
Fathima Asmat	Happy to help and learn from the senior maintainers as I’m quite new to this type of contribution :relaxed:
VinmayiSwamy	Add me also.. Happy to help and learn from the senior maintainers as I’m also quite new to this type of contribution :blush:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	This is great! We have senior folks and ones who would like mentoring :heart_eyes:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I have offered to co-maintain context as a start… I will try to make the spreadsheet and some instructions tomorrow
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3342293: Offering to co-maintain Context
damienmckenna	@Kristen Pol (she/her): I'm going to be discussing this today during the Contrib Half Hour meeting.
damienmckenna	Might it be worth tagging maintainership issues created as part of this initiative?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks @damienmckenna! Maybe @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) could chime in on tagging... we certainly can if it makes sense
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3342443: META: Adopt contributed projects for Drupal 10 readiness
Kristen Pol (she/her)	#3342447: Recruit volunteers to adopt contributed projects for Drupal 10 readiness
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I haven't explicitly added a few people above as it wasn't clear if you were volunteering or just providing feedback... @cmlara @greg-boggs @shelane @Mile23 ... but I can add you if you would be open to helping 🙂
Mile23	sure, add me to the list. I reserve the right to say no. 🙂
shelane	Yes, I'm sure there are some I can take on.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Nice! We're getting quite a list :heart_eyes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jUv6jkLM9u49hqCcgf-4W9bIEKEhsfJ-...
kevinquillen	:banana-dance:
lleber	How should contributions to the spreadsheet happen? Individual contributors, or drop a module preference in via slack for consideration?
smustgrave	and if someone drops a module does everyone on that list get push access?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	If anyone wants edit access to the spreadsheet, DM me your email address... I'm keeping it comment-only for anyone with link to be safe the trolls don't muck it :smile:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	But, if you don't want edit access, you can just comment on the spreadsheet if you want to volunteer for a particular project
MegaChriz	@Kristen Pol (she/her) What about adding projects to the list? Should I give you the list of all modules for which I need D10 compatibility?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	There's a projects tab.... see https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1676315429694179
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Screen Shot 2023-02-16 at 11.28.53 AM.png
MegaChriz	It’s a long list in my case, but it will take some time for me to gather them all, as they are spread across all the sites that I maintain.
lleber	I'll run an intersect on my client projects / modules and comment, thanks Kristen.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Sounds good and sounds good :+1:
cmlara	@Kristen Pol (she/her) sorry, for right now it’s just advice from me, I’ve got my schedule full maintaining my small set of modules and know that if I take on more without a site-need reason I’ll end up leaving them un-maintained.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	all good @cmlara!
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I have added process steps on the first tab of the spreadsheet and welcome feedback... am I missing anything? anything not clear? anything wrong? Thanks! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jUv6jkLM9u49hqCcgf-4W9bIEKEhsfJ-...
greg-boggs	I am happy to help/mentor too. I work for local government, so I'm going to try and get them to assign paid developer time for modules we depend on.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks… I probably won’t get back to this until tomorrow
dww	Also willing to help, both to do the task, and potentially mentor others (depending on scheduling, etc).

5️⃣ Contrib module upgrade status in general

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Raised by @ccjjmartin
ccjjmartin	I remember with the D9 upgrade there was a page on drupal.org that showed contrib module status of top 100 etc modules that had support. My current google fu is failing me to find a similar page for the D10 compatibility reports.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	it was on dev.acquia.com, and is currently also there for Drupal 10
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://dev.acquia.com/drupal10/deprecation_status/charts has the breakdowns
ccjjmartin	Thank you
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Data is from yesterday 🙂
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	70% of the top 1000 are compatible at least in dev 🙂
greg-boggs	this is fantastic!