Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 11 October 2021 [#3241414]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3241414`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

xjm	:wave: xjm
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Gábor, core committer
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Sup, Björn, jsonapi guy. :wave:
daffie	Daffie, core developer.
Björn Brala (bbrala)	See you are from the best country of Europe @daffie ;) (edited)
andypost	Andy, contributor
daffie	I saw that @Björn Brala (bbrala) followed the Drupaljam event. (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California, catching up after DrupalCon
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Ah cool, perhaps we'll meet in person next year then ^^ (edited)
daffie	That would be great!
catch	Nat. A bit late.
shaal	Ofer Shaal, DrupalPod + Umami
larowlan	Hi
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Hi @larowlan, you're up early! Good morning :)
keboca	hi :wave: (a lil bit late) (edited)
kimb0	Kim, Sydney, Australia
Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)	Ilcho Vuchkov, project modules maintainer… I follow.

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we'll open threads for them as appropriate.

Björn Brala (bbrala)	Small question. What is the exact deadline for the first set of issues in the symfony 6 meta issue? "[META] Symfony 6 compatibility #3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility \| Drupal.org" #3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility
andypost	There's no core issue yet, but we have no pgsql testing for last 2 majors in CII started #3240346: Add Postgresql 15.4/16.0 to CI but it needs a plan for core before release
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Is there a short list of the main focus issues before the D10 freeze?
Björn Brala (bbrala)	@Kristen Pol (she/her) - #3118143: [meta] Release Drupal 10 on December 14... or 15... 2022 ?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I was thinking more of a curated hot issue list in one spot or maybe a tagged list via a special tag...
larowlan	In doing a session in Drupal 10 at Drupal South and would welcome input or guest appearances (pre record) from anyone who was interested in getting their message out. I'll share my slides here before the next meeting for feedback
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@larowlan I have open source slides last updated in September with speaker notes in case you need any :) http://slides.com/gaborhojtsy/state-of-drupal-10-readiness-sept-2021 (edited)
larowlan	thanks! that's amazing

2️⃣ Symfony 6 progress and deadline

xjm	Ideally, we would like to have D9 compatible with SF6 by the D9 deperecation deadline around Nov. 6
xjm	That way, site owners and module developers have the compatibility info they need to bridge the SF 4 to 6 gap in their upgrades
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Good progress on #3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility, the first 5 issues listed in there would be the ones to do before November 6. There is no deadline per say to open the Drupal 10 branch though, but we would need these changes done in Drupal 9 for an easier path to Drupal 10.
xjm	However, if some issues don't get backported to 9.3, we will backport them to 9.4 instead and then the final deadline is the beta deadline for 10.0 in March (since SF 6.0 isn't released yet, there will always be some uncertainty)
xjm	It's just better for site owners and module developers to have as much SF6 compatibility as possible in 9.3
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Fair enough, thats pretty clear. Asking because of #3232074: [Symfony 6] Add "array\|string\|int\|float\|bool\|\ArrayObject\|null" to all Normalizer classes that implement the method ::normalize(). I will need to start making some progress there soon then ;x
daffie	There are only a couple of issues that need to be fixed. Most of them need subsystem maintainer to get it fixed.
larowlan	What about issues we can't backport because of language features only in php8
daffie	They shall have to go in the 10.0 branch. No other possibility.
larowlan	Yes, but can we convey the depreciation to contrib authors
larowlan	I guess so, like we're doing already with event dispatcher changes
larowlan	the key question is, can we inform contrib that there will be a return type added, without adding it ourself and prevent our tests failing
daffie	The only thing I can think of is how Symfony it is doing in Symfony 5.4. Back port it to D9.3.
daffie	I think this is the reason why we are doing a D9.3 release with Symfony 5.4. So that sites can test for deprecations in their code.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Are we doing a 9.3 release with Symfony 5.4?

3️⃣ Great progress on PHP 8.1 compatibility

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks @daffie, @alexpott, @andypost, @mondrake, @lendude, @catch for their fantastic work on PHP 8.1 compatibility! We are getting real close :tada:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3220021: [meta] Ensure compatibility of Drupal 9 with PHP 8.1 (as it evolves) has only two internal issues to fix now, one of which is RTBC :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	also PHP 8.1 is in RC3, so it is quite stable now to work against
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	(there are three more PHP 8.1 RCs planned with a final stable release planned for November 25)
daffie	We need an testbot update to do see how it works with RC3
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Hm, I think that was rolled out.
andypost	Testbot labels just not yet updated
daffie	That is why I missed it.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C51GNJG91/p1633359978197500 is not conclusive as to whether it happened :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	but at least @andypost requested it a week ago :smile:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mixologic may need to update the labels if it is already rolled out :slightly_smiling_face:
daffie	Mixologic is probably very busy.
andypost	Yep, looks infra team is busy and next RC will be this week
alexpott	We need only one more dependency release until we can green test runs - that MinkSelenium2Driver… easyrdf is not deprecation free but the deprecations from it are skippable. I think the ones from MinkSelenium2Driver are hard to skip. Hopefully the MinkSelenium2Driver release will happen soon. I’ve done all the work that’s been asked to get a release.
alexpott	It would be great to get #3239298: Fix \Drupal\migrate\Plugin\migrate\destination\EntityConfigBase::updateEntity() so that config translation migrations can be rolled back to rtbc. A nice real bug found PHP 8.1's increased strictness.
andypost	@alexpott thank you for revamp of behat&co - it looks like just new minor releases is here https://github.com/minkphp/Mink/issues/811#issuecomment-939964177 just driver's code coverage left
alexpott	Yeah - Mink is done but we need MinkSelenium2Driver as well
alexpott	So let’s wait for that

4️⃣ Feedback needed on CKEditor 5 addition to core!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Core issue at #3231364: Add CKEditor 5 module to Drupal core
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	While end user testing is also welcome, it would be REALLY valuable if people with ckeditor extending contributed modules would attempt to port their modules to ckeditor 5.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The section “Architecture” in the issue summary explains the key elements of the developer experience.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	It would be important to validate this sooner than later.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Would it make sense to create a list of these modules and contact the maintainers?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	That would be a great idea :slightly_smiling_face:
daffie	I have asked during Drupalcon to @wimleers (he/him) if he could write a manual for contrib maintainers how to update their ckeditor plugin and he said he would do that.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Nice!
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@wimleers (he/him) Any timing on that? If that's done, I could contact maintainers and point them at it :)
xjm	That would be great
kevinquillen	I can take a look when it's ready
dinarcon	Very likely not complete, but this documentation page includes a list of many CKEditor related modules https://www.drupal.org/docs/8/core/modules/ckeditor/contributed-modules-...
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks @dinarcon :slightly_smiling_face:

5️⃣ Potentially expanding PostgreSQL version testing on drupal.org

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost opened #3240346: Add Postgresql 15.4/16.0 to CI
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	While Drupal 10 is planned to require PostgreSQL 12 (https://www.drupal.org/node/3228686), it would indeed be useful to make sure we are not breaking anything on later versions either (similar to PHP 8.1 compatibility).
daffie	Do we need testbot support for PostgreSQL 13 and 14 or only for PostgreSQL 14?
andypost	Would be great to make sure that core tests pass - at least for coming 9.3
andypost	I think we meed both, 14 used to add support for openssl3 so 13 is the last release with 1.x requirement
andypost	Also there's big changes in libicu which I bet affects multilingual sites
daffie	OK, then gets do both.
daffie	@andypost: Could you update the IS with why we need both.
andypost	Updates IS!

6️⃣ Looking for a maintainer for QuickEdit in contrib

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There are various modules proposed to be moved to contrib in Drupal 10, and planned to be deprecated in Drupal 9.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Forum, Aggregator and HAL have maintainers lined up. Thanks @larowlan and @andypost I think :smile:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	However, we have QuickEdit planned to be removed and we are still looking for maintainers.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@gaurav.kapoor offered help in #3228986: [Meta] Tasks to deprecate Quick Edit, but based on the issue queue he did not seem to have found time yet to engage in the QuickEdit queue
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Advertising... https://twitter.com/kristen_pol/status/1447635444485607426?s=20
larowlan	we still have a lot of work todo around lifecycle before we can deprecate those modules
larowlan	time is running out
larowlan	#3215043: Indicate the non-stable statuses in admin/modules page and siblings
larowlan	We're so busy at work I'm wondering if I'll get time for it
larowlan	Can these go in after the alpha deadline?
andypost	@larowlan in which issue you did test of aggregator module removal? it may need to "decouple-tests" like quick edit used to
larowlan	I don't know of one
larowlan	still been trying to get the messaging right
andypost	I bet we'll face the same issue on every core's module deprecation
andypost	@Kristen Pol (she/her) this smells like a set of novice tasks to test removal of each module supposed to be deprecated in D10
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@andypost Good idea :)
gaurav.kapoor	I thought I would be able to help here, but turns out Quick Edit module has lot of JS and that isn't my strong skill:sweat_smile: (edited)
Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)	I’m ready to help… if it’s needed. (edited)

7️⃣ Is there a focus issues list for Drupal 10?

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Kristen Pol (she/her) asked
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I don't think there is one or that we could practically create one?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I mean there are lots going on with CKEditor and php 8.1 and symfony 6 and even Olivero.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I don't think putting them into a big list is practically useful.
andypost	there supposed a lot of issues that will remove deprecated code for 10.x
andypost	I bet it #3213895: [META] Remove deprecated classes, methods, procedural functions and code paths outside of deprecated modules on the Drupal 10 branch
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Well, those are particularly NOT focus issues now given the lack of Drupal 10 branch :smile:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Or a list of metas?
xjm	All the metas are in a tree
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Just wondering if people want to help but, aren't sure where the focus is, if they could start on an issue or tag and look around
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The META tree is #3118143: [meta] Release Drupal 10 on December 14... or 15... 2022
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I don’t think the META tree is particularly useful for people who “randomly” want to contribute.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I think its better for them to focus on specific areas, like the PHP 8.1 meta or Olivero, etc.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Sounds good
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Is the roadmap used anymore? (Last updated in April) https://www.drupal.org/about/core/policies/core-release-cycles/drupal-de...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah we did not keep it up to date.

8️⃣ Olivero is very close to stable (guest thread)

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	META issue at #3177296: [META] Make Olivero stable
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The one remaining issue is RTBC. Then there are browser testing tasks to do. @mherchel is working on testing guidelines, contact him to be involved.
mherchel	:partyparrot: