Meeting of the Bug Smash Initiative 2020-07-21 [#3157348]

Agenda items

Standing items

Who is here
Any other suggested topics
Wins / Thanks / Frustrations
Statistics and functionality update. X new bugs created in last two weeks. Y closed by the initiative.
The bug I would most like to see fixed
Update on action items from last meeting
What should be the initiative focus for the next 2 weeks?

New items

@todo

Comments

Comment #1

7 July 2020 at 05:00

dww created an issue. See original summary.

Comment #2

larowlan

🇦🇺🏝.au GMT+10

commented 23 July 2020 at 04:34

Status:

Active

» Fixed

Howdy and welcome to the fourth meeting of the Bug Smash community initiative :beetle::hammer::tada:
This meeting:
➤ Is for contributors who are interested in helping reduce the number of open bugs against Drupal 8 and Drupal 9 core.
➤ Usually happens every second Tuesday at 04:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Transcript will be exported and posted to a core issue for this meeting. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread to introduce yourself. We’ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours to allow for all time zones.

jibran	Jibran, AU
Bob McDonald (ultrabob) he/him	Bob, Japan
jungle	Jungle, Chongqing, China
Michael (g-brodiei)	Michael, Taiwan
pameeela	Pam, Noosa, AU
larowlan	Lee, AU
Griffyn Heels	Griff, Cold Melbourne, Aus
quietone	Hi, Aotearoa/New Zealand
kimb0	Kim, Sydney, Australia
dww	Derek, US
sime	Hi, Si, Australia
pratik_kamble	Pratik, Pune India
hansa11	Hansa, India Catching up now.
samiullah	Sami, India :slightly_smiling_face:
DeepaliJ	Deepali, Mumbai India
lendude	Len, Amsterdam
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California, USA, catching up late
partyka	Jason, Illinois, USA up early :thinking_face:

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

vaibhavjain	I am not sure if this can be one of the topics, please ignore if this isnt the right. Tests - My team is working much on improving and fixing the test cases in the patches provided. There are some queries which we have not been able to get answers on. Where shall we post our queries so that we can have higher chances of getting resolutions and thus helping the issues move forward.
pameeela	Should we establish a policy on closing bug reports for updates to versions no longer supported?
quietone	I am still confused on when to use the Bug Smash Tag. See https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594775925300200
samiullah	Simplymetests is not spinning up, getting errors randomly
Kristen Pol (she/her)	A bit late to add a topic but I wasn't sure how long the triage issues are supposed to be up... one per week, per 2 weeks, longer? And what does w/c mean in the issue title?

2️⃣ .1️⃣ Wins - what wins have you had this fortnight - share your successes!

larowlan	We got the date-element wrapper issue in
pameeela	the media focus fix is :100:
larowlan	yeah that was a nice bit of work, shows how powerful we can be as an initiative when we swarm
larowlan	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3089745
larowlan	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2625136
Michael (g-brodiei)	Drupal Con Global was an amazing success!!! Saw and learned a lot from Drupal people around the world :tada: :tada: Traiged and closed a few issues, thanks to everyone who helped along the way
Bob McDonald (ultrabob) he/him	I got my first (tiny) patches (Including one with the bugsmash tag) committed to core thanks to excellent mentorship by @jungle @anto (antojose on d.o) @Kristen Pol (she/her) and @mradcliffe. Pretty exciting for me.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Awesome!
sime	I started a lando setup for testing patches and it's working really well for me. I feel like i can jump in quickly when i have some spare time. https://github.com/simesy/coredev
sime	Getting contributions on a couple of patches was super satisfying. really enjoying the initiative.
anto (antojose on d.o)	Super!
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I didn't see it mentioned but maybe I missed it but some closed issues here: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3157579

2️⃣ .2️⃣ Thanks - a space for call outs to other contributors who’ve helped you this fortnight

pameeela	thanks @dww for the file delete patch and @larowlan for fixing and committing :slightly_smiling_face:
Michael (g-brodiei)	Thanks to @pameeela on her support on reviewing issues I'd closed last week! Initialising a time like triage blitz was a great Idea
pameeela	and @jibran for answering lots of questions or chasing up people who can answer them
jibran	Thanks Pam for sharing that. I would also like to thank everyone who helped me out ans responded to my questions, esp. @pratik_kamble and @surabhi.gokte their teams help us with rerolls and test additions.
surabhi.gokte	Thank you for the opportunity, @jibran :slightly_smiling_face:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm probably missing people but I regularly see @jungle, @pameeela, @lendude, @dww, and @longwave helping on issues I'm in, so thanks! Also happy that @Bob McDonald (ultrabob) he/him has jumped in a bunch since Friday's contribution day :)
partyka	Yes thanks to @jungle and @longwave who have been more then patient with me forgetting to run my patches through through the code style tools.
partyka	FWIW-I’m embarrassed that I keep on forgetting to do that. I know it’s important!
larowlan	As equally important http://webchick.net/embrace-the-chaos
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@partyka I have to re-record my entire DrupalCon session video because I made a mistake on a very important detail. I am embarrased but I'll need to get over it. People make mistakes. And hopefully we learn and eventually make different mistakes later. :)
partyka	Oh no, I’m sorry @Kristen Pol (she/her) Thanks all for being encouraging.

2️⃣ .3️⃣ Frustrations - what’s been a source of frustration this fortnight - a space to vent

jibran

Last time meeting was posted to d.o before 24hrs :stuck_out_tongue:

3️⃣ Core bug statistics - current state of open bugs

larowlan	34 closed / fixed etc issues in the last fortnight
larowlan	61 new bugs in that time, so we’re still going backwards :crying_cat_face:
quietone	I move about 70 issues out of 'simpletest.module' but I didn't tag them as Bug Smash.
jibran	Are you going to tag them now after the discussion in 11?
pratik_kamble	@larowlan `61 new bugs` are they child issue from existing ones. or completely new
larowlan	I searched for new bugs created in last fortnight for core
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I have been moving D8 issues to D9 and testing patches for compatibility so some of those might have been me if you're only checking D9 :)
larowlan	Sorry should have been clear, numbers above are 8x and 9x

4️⃣ Bug I'd most like to see fixed

larowlan	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2614720 which @quietone has got close and @benjifisher has reviewed recently
quietone	Yes, I am back working on those again.
larowlan	please ping me for reviews

5️⃣ Highlights from the last meeting

Griffyn Heels	• What is the triage plan for next fortnight? - https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594094741043100?thread_t... • Notifications for old issues - https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594096652072900?thread_t... • Nominated mentor for this fortnight - @jibran • Focus for the fortnight - Views + Date: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594101762097800?thread_t... • Strategy to triage issues? - Align with the fortnights focus: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594095338051400?thread_t... • Initiative plans for DrupalCon contribution day? Having 1 - 2 hour 'triage blitz' https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594096325067800?thread_t... • How can QA resources help <#C014QES6HSQ\|bugsmash>? Organise a call to discuss this https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594095803060000?thread_t... • How can JS developers assist with <#C014QES6HSQ\|bugsmash> contrib - https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1594096041065000?thread_t...
jibran	@pameeela Is it possible to schedule a call this fortnight? I don't think we did it last time around.
pameeela	schedule a call for what in particular?
jibran	Sorry, I meant this > How can QA resources help <#C014QES6HSQ\|bugsmash>? Organise a call to discuss this
pameeela	sure but it's not my question
pameeela	happy to join a call, but can't really run it as i didn't bring it up

6️⃣ Suggest a focus for the next two weeks in this thread. Vote on the suggestions you like. We’ll pick the one with the most votes in 24 hours and use that as our focus until the next meeting.

larowlan	there are more issues with date views that derek can link to
larowlan	i’m interested in them, and also layout builder
quietone	My focus is orphan comments
dww	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3078334 is "next" for Views + Date bugs.
dww	There are a large number of UI bugs now organized under https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2888657 -- I know the UX team is going to look at that this week. Hopefully they'll approve a plan, but that could be a nice pile of bugs to smash, mostly relatively easy UI text changes only. Could be something for folks to team up on.
larowlan	should we promote this list on the initiative page after each meeting?
dww	There's a @todo section about that. ;) We've never used it, yet.
larowlan	ok, let’s add that to our post-meeting steps
larowlan	cc @Griffyn Heels
dww	I haven't simply wanted it to become '@dww's pet issues list' :wink:
larowlan	same i’ve been trying to stay out too, but the reality is no-one else is chiming up, so may as well
Kristen Pol (she/her)	To be honest, I haven't been paying attention to the focus and just work on anything. Wondering if most people are trying to stay on topic?

7️⃣ Who is going to be the mentor for this coming fortnight? How was it over the last two weeks @jibran?

jibran	Last fortnight was really great we had a DrupalCon and Dries mention the initiative during the DriesNote so we saw folks joining the channel and asking for help and sharing their expertise. As far as pinging the appropriate person is concerned in the threads it went pretty smooth people were responsive we addressed quiet a few entity, views, BC, review, rerolls, and test addition related queries.
Griffyn Heels	Thats fantastic.
jibran	As far as workload is concerned, I was just check once every two days and spending 15-30 min to address the queries
Griffyn Heels	Does anyone want to put their hand up to be a mentor/guide for the next fortnight?
quietone	I would but busy time with family now. Maybe next time.

8️⃣ Do we want to come up with some tooltip text for our tag?

larowlan	hovering over the tag link in the issue sidebar will show the hover text
larowlan	thanks Jibran for letting me know about this functionality
larowlan	any suggestions on what we’d use?
quietone	I'd want a link to a page that tells me when to use it and when not to use it.
jibran	Also come find us here in this channel.
dww	Seems like link to initiative page is important, perhaps to an anchor for the section about use of the tag.
dww	E.g. https://www.drupal.org/community-initiatives/drupal-core/bug-smash#issue...

9️⃣ From @vaibhavjain "How can I get more visibility/feedback on my issues?"

Griffyn Heels	Original request: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1595304567389300?thread_t...
larowlan	our initiative page has some slack conventions, after this meeting is over, its fine to use those to post using the ? and :recycle: review conventions
jibran	See 7️⃣ as well. The idea is you can ask your questions here and ask for review swaps as well. There will be a person available every fortnight who will be able to help you if there is no response to your query,
dww	Also, specifically on tests, our initiative page has a section on that: https://www.drupal.org/community-initiatives/drupal-core/bug-smash#write... which also links to the <#C223PR743\|testing> channel -- that can also be a good place to get test-specific questions answered if no one is responding in here.
vaibhavjain	Great, this is really helpful. I believe, I have next steps for my team. We will work on getting more clarity and help on tests. Thanks Folks !!
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Maybe we could add the TLDR of emoji usage to the channel description? :recycle: ? :ambulance: :target:

1️⃣ 0️⃣ From @pameeela "Show we establish a policy for closing bug reports for updates to versions no longer supported?"

Griffyn Heels	Original: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1595304724391500?thread_t...
pameeela	i propose for an upgrade to a version that is >1 year out of support, we add a comment asking the reporter if they ever resolved it, and then if we don't hear back within [30/60/90] days it can be closed? https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2873708
larowlan	it depends if the user is stranded
larowlan	e.g. if they’re stuck on 8.5 because of an update path bug, we can’t close it
larowlan	in general these things turn out to be really specific, e.g. we had things like comments without a comment type or field name column
pameeela	but how can we know? if someone responds and is actively seeking help, we wouldn't close that.
larowlan	and we had a lot of issues with menu links and mene link extras
larowlan	oh sorry, I missed the ‘didn’t respond’
quietone	If it isn't migrate I find it is really hard to close an issue. Having some policy/guidelines means that I can work within accepted rules, which can be linked in the issue. And of course, a nice comment saying it can be re-opened.
larowlan	I would like to hear what @xjm and @catch think about this specific scenario: • but report for update path from/to a now EOL version • no steps to reproduce • no activity for N months (let’s say 12) • no response from reporter In the example you linked above Pam, it feels like a closed cannot reproduce, but I guess each one is different…and can always be re-opened if it happens again
Michael (g-brodiei)	I'd like to suggest an improvement on adding the issue template (say the subtitles like problem/motivation, etc.) as default content to the creation of new issue. (can add a button to clear it out if unwanted) Some old issues that were being neglected were simply due to the misinformation or unclear report. If people follow and fill in the needed information, it will be much easier to follow up and resolve the issue.
larowlan	this would likely require d.o / project_issue feature development, thoughts @dww ^
Michael (g-brodiei)	this will at least decrease the issues that require "no steps to reproduce" in the future and got forgotten.
dww	You mean the issue template suggestion? Default text in the issue description field?
Michael (g-brodiei)	yes!
dww	There's already per-project "submission guidelines". It's a wall of text people already don't read. :(
dww	Then there's the 'Insert template' button from dreditor. There's an effort to move that out of a browser plugin into d.o itself: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/1393226 See also: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/1673278
dww	Having an actual default summary on issue creation is kinda complicated, since we'd really want different summaries for bugs vs. features. We'll probably need to just assume bugs and let folks edit for things that don't make sense for non-bugs.
dww	In theory, it'd also want to be project-specific.
larowlan	yeah I think project specific is a MVP
larowlan	ie. must-have
larowlan	but different for bugs vs features feels like nice to have
dww	But, if we want to over simplify everything and deploy this ASAP, we could literally use the 'Default value' field on the issue node config (exported as a feature in the drupalorg project).
dww	Dreditor is already a single template, site wide.
dww	If we really want to not add more bespoke weirdness for this, we could just agree that a single default value, site wide, for all issues, would be better than nothing, and we could have this patched and ready in 15 minutes.
larowlan	sounds like a valid idea - should we open an issue ? @Michael (g-brodiei) do you want to take that on (opening an issue in project/drupalorg)
dww	Honest, I think it could be a new proposed solution to https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/1393226
Michael (g-brodiei)	I agree on having a simple default template for the moment would be better, especially since Dreditor's "insert template" button is down for now. :point_up:
Michael (g-brodiei)	@larowlan yes, I'd love to help on that!
dww	I'll respond at that issue.
dww	BTW, the dreditor fork as a FF plugin fixed this, and I figured out how to install that on Chrome, too. ;)
Michael (g-brodiei)	ohh, then maybe I don't need to open a new issue? @dww? We can just resolve the improvement on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/1393226
dww	Yeah, I'll comment there now.
dww	Oh, FFS, it's already in the summary. ;) <li>Use the template as the default value for new issues</li>
larowlan	so we just need to do it?
larowlan	patch against the feature then?
dww	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/1393226#comment-13756642
dww	@Michael (g-brodiei) Do you want to actually work on the patch? :wink:
larowlan	I have still got a sandbox if you want to test stuff too
dww	drupalorg/features/drupalorg_issues/drupalorg_issues.features.field_instance.inc : ``` $field_instances['node-project_issue-body'] = array( 'bundle' => 'project_issue', 'default_value' => NULL,``` Fix me, `NULL` :wink:
larowlan	its funny how many d.o things we’re fixing in this initiative
dww	Possible :bikeshed: warning: The documented summary template (which is what Dreditor uses, etc) doesn't actually contain an explicit "Steps to reproduce" subsection, so the original point of this thread wouldn't be addressed without improving that template, too.
larowlan	we have a bikeshed emoji :face_palm:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I think I opened an issue awhile ago for adding the steps to reproduce to dreditor... I'll look
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Ha. 2014. https://www.drupal.org/project/documentation/issues/2281761
catch	With bugs opened against old versions. Sometimes people put the version number when it's irrelevant to the issue they have. Sometimes they are upgrade path bugs which could still theoretically be fixed in 8.9/8.8 for direct updates from 8.2 or whatever.

1️⃣ 1️⃣ From @quietone "Still confused on when to use the Bug Smash Tag"

Griffyn Heels	Original: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1595304946396500?thread_t...
pameeela	good q, not sure an answer exists :laughing:
dww	I think that tag is "Everything we touched as a result of this initiative".
larowlan	e.g. my statistics show 34 closed issues in last fortnight, the number might be higher if we’re not tagging
pameeela	i have been using it for issues that i closed, but not for stuff that i either didn't close, or moved to contrib, or support request etc
dww	There's no meaning behind "official BugSmash target" -- there's nothing official. A "target" is anything anyone wants to work on. So that part is pointless to use a tag for. The tag really means "something we looked at / worked on".
pameeela	i guess i felt that it was potentially going to surface stuff that maybe didn't really warrant extra attention from the initiative?
dww	Some edge cases to be explicit: issues that started as a core bug that got moved to another project (e.g. moving stuff to SimpleTest contrib) - Tag it.
dww	Some issues that started as a core bug that got triaged to some closed - that's not a bug status -- Tag it.
dww	Issues that started as core bug that got moved to "task" or "support request" or whatever -- Tag it.
dww	etc.
pameeela	but tags are supposed to make it easier to find issues. what is the value in surfacing those edge cases so prominently?
dww	Generally, I think our initiative page says: "look here for stuff to work on" (which is almost never stuff already tagged), vs. "here's the stuff we've done" (which is all the stuff we tagged).
dww	> Tagged for the Bug Smash Initiative > Any issue we've touched as part of this initiative we're tagging with "Bug Smash Initiative". So everything here has been looked at least once. However, our ultimate goal is to get things fixed, not just triaged. So if you want to help move anything in this list along, that would be great.
pameeela	that's problematic imo
dww	That's the very _last_ section under "What bugs we're looking at" :wink:
pameeela	seems like pushing people toward issues that are totally arbitrary just because i picked it up!
dww	But look at the actual links in that section, even then, most are filtered to "open bugs" etc...
jungle	To me, if it’s a bug, then i am treading to tag it “Bug Smash Initiative” hoping to get more attentions. as there are group of people being active under this Initiative. A bit more chance to get done earlier than without a tag, in theory.
dww	so if you triage stuff to clear it out, the only link on our page that leads there is the "https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=Bug+Smash..." link.
pameeela	anything i close, i tag, regardless of the issue type.
dww	I guess the first few links in that section are filtering for "open" but not necessarily "bug". We could easily add that if we think that's an improvement.
dww	https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?status%5B%5D=Open&ve...
dww	That could have a category param, too...
pameeela	yeah so if i were to tag everything i've touched, that list is going to grow by a lot :laughing:
pameeela	which is fine if that's the consensus. happy to do that!
dww	IMHO that's good. Again, these are far down on the list of things to work on.
pameeela	fair enough
dww	But if we've triaged a ton of issues, we should remember that. We have no way other than the tag.
pameeela	well i have a conf call now so i will use that time to go back and tag all the issues i updated :joy:
dww	s/we/Pameela/ ;) you've been ROCKING that stuff!!
dww	(I mean, yeah, others have helped, too... but giving credit where due, you definitely get the :beetle: :hammer: triage :trophy:
pameeela	i have been meaning to say that it has been really great as i have learned SO MUCH in the process
quietone	Would this be accurate: Tag if a) you start from a link on the initiative page b) it leads you to update in any way a related issue (even if not a bug) where the related issue is already listed on the issue or found from your own searching.
larowlan	sounds good to me
dww	I'm not sure I fully understand b, but sure. I think a more simple answer might be: "Tag if you update a core bug report for any reason". The only people who see this instruction will be self-identified as "part of <#C014QES6HSQ\|bugsmash>" so that's implied by documenting this in this channel and/or our initiative page.
jungle	The confusing here is what kinds of `non-bug-issues` could be tagged “Bug Smash Initiative”, I think we all agree that tagging any bug-issues are totally fine.
jungle	How about: we don’t encourage tagging non-bug-issues “Bug Smash Initiative”, but if you do it, it’s fine and acceptable.
dww	@jungle I think the point is it should have started as a bug. :wink:
dww	The only exception to that is "plumbing" issues like the JS issue count feature that we added specifically to make our lives easier/better. But that's rare enough we don't need to document it.
dww	Those of us working on the plumbing will know we can bend the rules a bit as appropriate. :wink:
jungle	Good point :+1:
jungle	Love your idea
quietone	I still hesitate tagging migrate issues because I do those with my maintainer hat on not a bug smash hat.\
dww	Well, whatever... same for me and update manager issues, views issues, etc.
dww	I tag 'em all. We all wear different hats.
jungle	Would you pin your reply “The only exception to that is “plumbing…“” to the channel?
jungle	@dww
dww	Only if there's more agreement. ;) @larowlan, @pameeela @quietone et al... are we cool with the super simple answer: "Tag if you update a core bug report for any reason" ??
dww	I can update the initiative page about this, and document the exception.
quietone	have to go, will respond with 24 hours
pameeela	been on a call but does this apply if it starts as a bug report and ends up something else? or only if it remains a core bug report?
dww	I believe "starts as a core bug"
dww	Cuz again, if we triage a core bug, decide it's not core, or it's not a bug, or whatever, we're still reducing the open core bug count, which is the point of the initiative.
pameeela	https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?status%5B%5D=Open&ve...\|D8/9 open issues tagged with 'Bug Smash Initiative' [270 issues] up from 185 after i tagged mine :laughing:
pameeela	found a few that i closed that i forgot to tag too so that was good :slightly_smiling_face:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	"Tag if you update a core bug report for any reason" That's what I've been doing so +100 :)
quietone	I think I agree with this and have tried to summarize again. Note this include an exception not previously mentioned Starts as a core bug and you update it for any reason. Exceptions: 1) "plumbing" issues like the JS issue count feature that we added specifically to make our lives easier/better. 2) Specific cleanup identified and agreed to by the Initiative which are listed on the initiative page, for example, moving issues out of simpletest.module component since that component is no longer in core.

1️⃣ 2️⃣ Okay team, Bugsmash meeting 4 is over. Thanks all for coming! Please feel free to keep chatting in the threads. I'll work on getting the notes on d.o in the next 24 hours.

jibran	Thank you @Griffyn Heels!
jibran	Another smooth one!
dww	https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3157348 is for the notes. This week, I'll wait until the 24 hours is up before creating an issue for next meeting. ;)
dww	(In theory, folks can propose agenda items in advance at these issues, although in practice, no one has yet done so).