[og] Organic Groups

> Porting status unknown.

It's actually active :)

Awesome! Indicating that there's some code available. If it's usable for testing, please move to "needs review."

At the European Commission we need Organic Groups for Drupal 8. We are currently looking at making a developer available for 1 day per week, starting the first week of December. I'll report back once these plans are finalized.

At Azri Solutions we are planning to use this on a client project. We can dedicate some testing for this project. Will update once the project takes off.

Great news! I have received confirmation from our project manager regarding our plans to help porting OG. I have been given permission to work on the port for 2 days per week, starting tomorrow!

That's great to hear @pfrenssen ! While I'm not too strong on the back end bits, I will certainly help out with front-end and UX. @amitaibu - let me know how I can help.

Hi all, I'm interested in helping with this effort as a side-project to my day job. Great to see momentum for OG in D8. However it's not clear what the status of the port is, how far along we are, what needs to be done, etc. It took me quite a bit of searching to find this page.

Can someone post a summary or task list so that more volunteers can help? I've made a few small drupal modules so would have to spend some time getting caught up, but can help with organizing or writing tests.

@crobicha, I'm not working on this myself, so I'm not sure of specifics for this upgrade. However, a good place to start in the meantime would be looking at the "Where is the code?" section above. Look at the OG issue queue on GitHub and start testing, reporting any issues found or fixing existing issues using GitHub Pull Requests by forking the repo and making updates.

Adding #2627852: hook_entity_create_access() is unusable as a dependency. Also, our code would simplify if #2628870: Access result caching per user(.permissions) does not check for correct user would make it in.

Given OG's centrality in many large complex sites, and extensive ecosystem of submodules, suggesting bump to "major"

Previously, OG had been widely used and have extensive eco-systems..
But, I prefer group(http://drupal.org/project/group) instead of og.

Group has simple concepts and nice UI and UX.
I hope OG for drupal 8 should have this points.

When i was using OG, in my case, OG has very complex UX and many seperated admin UI pages per OG related modules.
And It makes confusing site builders and i feel the spaghetti UX for confiure group related features.

I always think to how to build grouping features while building a site.
And OG is widely used and famous for grouping. But, because of above mentioned reason,
I occasionally avoid using OG.

Thanks for reading.

It would be great if the differences between the modules in D8 could be highlighted somewhere.

What is the update on og? its been 2 months since an update, but there is activity in the github queue.

It is far from ready but there is steady progress. The project is very much alive with commits happening on a daily basis.

From an API standpoint the basic building blocks are already in place, so if you need to use OG in a project and have the resources to build the integration programmatically and are able to keep up with API changes over a period of several months while the code base is stabilizing then you can already use it. That's what we are doing in our current project.

If you expect the full suite of functionality and being able to configure everything through the interface then you will probably have to wait a few more months. That said, there are already several critical parts of the UI already implemented. You can create groups, and add members and content to groups. We would really welcome people to test and report issues on the github issue queue.

Where is this progress happening? The 8.x branch on Github haven't seen a commit since 2014, and the d.o repository doesn't even have a 8.x branch.

Edit: found it at https://github.com/amitaibu/og but if you want people to help, you need more visibility.

I've updated the issue summary. Porting is very much on.

drush dl og        
No release history available for og 8.x.

The project description on https://www.drupal.org/project/og points to the wrong repo and promissed the above.

Note: Development and issues are handled on GitHub, and code is synced back to Drupal.org

Its better to make the link explicit like

Note: Development and issues are handled on https://github.com/amitaibu/og and code is synced back to Drupal.org

Right, I agree there's nothing on d.o. yet. Which is just as good we are renaming crucial things and I think refactoring static methods into a service is still desired which will upset everything.

Can somebody give like a 1-2 sentence overview of where og-8.x is at? Is it usable? Or still in flux?

The basic building blocks are there. If you need basic grouping functionality and are not afraid of setting it up programmatically:

• You can create group types and group content types and associate them with each other, both through the API and the UI.
• You can assign members to groups and assign roles to members. Currently only possible through the API, the UI is not there yet.

Current development focus is on:

• Customizability: we are working on porting the full set of hooks.
• Access and permissions: we're working on the last bits.
• Providing a basic UI for setting up roles and permissions.

What's absolutely not there yet is the advanced UI, where you can manage multiple group audience fields etc. There is also no way currently of adding users to groups through the UI.

Risks of using the development version at this time:

• Absolutely not battle tested. You might encounter serious problems such as critical bugs, data loss and security vulnerabilities. If you intend to go to production within a handful of months this is absolutely not recommended unless you have the resources to do a full audit.
• API is not stabilized. There are BC breaks from time to time. Practically speaking you will need to allocate someone to follow up and merge in the latest changes on a regular basis. This will cost around 2-3 hours per 2 weeks. If you ignore following up for a longer period you risk falling behind and this will make it more complicated.

@pfrenssen you are so awesome! :)

Thanks for the update hope things work fine will try it today itself .I have been waiting for this update since really long.OG in itself is a great module.

Hello. Is OG for D8 still happening? It seems there has not be a commit for over a month. Perhaps people are on summer vacation.
Can anyone give a status?

Thanks

@magick93 just need to read the issue summary :)

https://www.drupal.org/node/2591017#git

Hi Amitai/Pieter

could you give an update of the OG D8 port status of comment #28? roadmap and Alpha version estimated release dates?.

Best

I've updated the issue summary. I hope for a 1st alpha mid October. It will be OG bare bones, but I feel that what we already have is pretty solid (here's a post I wrote about it)

Hi Amitai/Pieter,

Do you have a revised date in mind for the Alpha D8 release? Very much looking forward to taking a look at it. Thanks :)

The first alpha is blocked by #2280479: Add setting to EntityReferenceSelection plugins to prevent references to referencing entity which is holding the PR for Remove OG complex widget.

Now, I am a bit confused.. on this post in 2010 amitaibu wrote that OG has been rewritten as group, but here it seems that there is a roadmap for OG in D8 still in place..

@sylvaticus there were plans to rename Organic Groups -> Group. Since then another module called Group has emerged.

Since OG is blocked by #2280479: Add setting to EntityReferenceSelection plugins to prevent references to referencing entity
on the ContribKanban.com the OG project should move to "blocked" column

Since OG is blocked by #2280479: Add setting to EntityReferenceSelection plugins to prevent references to referencing entity for more than 1 year, is there a way forward with a workaround or not consider this as dependency for 1st alpha? This way other areas can make progress and having the 1st Alpha could attract more contributors . Atleast it will get more downloads and tests.

I don't think that's a good idea. Instead of putting effort in developing workarounds, it would be better to spend that effort on getting the core bug fixed. Otherwise we'll just end up with technical debt that requires more effort later to clean up again.

@pfrenssen, in general, I agree with your philosophy.
What I was trying to suggest is move forward (not release , just alpha) based on the impact of this issue. May be i don't understand the use case completely but thought this could be an edge case. Based on your and amitaibu's conversation on that thread (comments #10, #14, #17, #18, #19), although there is a use case as you pointed, The problem to happen , requires a specific user action to reference entity and edit the form.

) Imagine you are holding a promotion for your webshop "Buy one item, get a related item of your choice for free" - this could provide an entity reference to a list of related items which could include itself.

So worst case that can happen, it will show itself in the list of related entries. Not ideal, but is that a showstopper for test site?

Even if this must be fixed in core before OG 8.x release, does this rise to the complexity or data corruption for a generic OG install with Alpha1 quality? We have OG alpha releases before with known defects. Having an alpha will attract more people to try OG and in turn help kickstart more hands on the deck and might actually get more resources to fix the core bug. Right now the "core" does not seem it is high enough to be fixed (it has not been in the last 3 years) . So should we really be treating this as blocking (for alpha1 atleast)?

I agree with @ajayg. The blocker issue isn’t a critical bug causing data loss or WSODs or anything like that, or even a major one causing errors in the log to the best of my understanding. As I understand it, it’s a missing feature that would be very nice to have in the released version (especially since it involves referential integrity of the data), but could wait for now to get an alpha out the door. Definitely get it in there before a beta, let alone rc, release, though.

This comment about that issue blocking the release of OG was made by Amitai over a year ago. I wouldn't be too fixated on that as being the One True Reason that the OG alpha is not released yet. A lot has happened in the meantime. The development of OG is done on Github, so to get a good idea about the current status of the project it can be interesting to follow some of the issues there.

If you want to help get OG released, please check the open issues for the D8 version and the open pull requests, especially the ones that are marked as alpha blockers.

Indeed, as @pfrenssen commented -- that issue isn't a blocker for OG.

There are a few PRs either ready or needing some more work, that once are committed we could cut an alpha, although out of the current 4 probably only this is the real blocker (anyone ready to review it is most welcome).

# 47 @amitaibu
> probably only this is the real blocker (anyone ready to review it is most welcome).

conversation looks like it is RTBC there, or not?

#42
> #2280479: Add setting to EntityReferenceSelection plugins to prevent references to referencing entity

In that issue there is a reverence to https://www.drupal.org/project/entity_reference_validators which is a viable workaround for now.

So an alpha might be in sight...😻

I have just learned of this project. I am not a strong coder, but I am willing to help where I can, and am pretty fair on the UI/UX side. I have a site that should be able to give this a good test, when the time comes.

@amitaibu,
you have mentioned only one is what requires review. https://github.com/Gizra/og/pull/181
But on the same issue page , Roysegall (who is another maintainer) on Oct 4, 2017 commented it looks ok to him. Isn't that enough? Do you have any concern it may not be properly reviewed?
IMHO the sooner you get alpha out, the more folks will get interested and better feedbak you will get. Currently it is stalled for several months with no steps (that we understand) to unblock it.

Please don't get me wrong about this - I really appreciate the hard work everyone is doing by coding plugins for drupal and I know how complex things can become.
But drupal 8 is out now for 3 years and there is still no RC of OG. Again... this is no accusation and no complaining! But I am again in need for a group module and thought about choosing drupal 8 as a CMS.
Will OG for drupal 8 happen any time soon?

Please refrain from abusing this issue with such requests. This issue is about the port to D8. Use the issue queue of the project itself to gather that information and bring the answers here, not the questions.

I sort of agree with mmjvb. If you need the OG version badly please contribute the patches so you can not only see the progress but can accelerate it.

But then I sort of agree with drupalok. As mentioned in #47 there seems to be only 1 real blocker for alpha release for more than a year. But there are several organizations are using the currently available OG 8 version in the production. If that is the case why not call the current version as alpha1 ? It is an important psychological signal for more people to try at out and give feedback.
Right now, even if someone wants to contribute to the issue mentioned in #47, it has so many comments it is kind of hard for newbie to figure out where they can can contribute.

I'd be ok with tagging a first alpha, to signal that OG is actually very much alive. I believe that blocking issue is in fact not really blocking.

@pfrenssen are you ok with that?

And again that discussion should have taken place with the og project, not here!

This issue is for providing the information, so a reference to the discussion on the beta would be desired, not the discussion itself.

ah sorry... did not get this. feel free to delete my comment please

Don't worry, you are not the only one.

You are the only person to delete the comments by editing the comment and remove the text. Considering the amount of abuse in this issue I suggest you leave it as is. That is in addition to addressing the issues in the queue of OG and bringing any answers here.

@amitaibu Yes I am OK with tagging an alpha release. This will give a clear signal that the project is alive and well, and can maybe attract new developers to contribute to it. It will also give an anchor point for people to try it out and report issues. For as long as we are in alpha we can still break the API if needed.

I understand the frustration that some people are expressing here, this is not uncommon in open source development. What people sometimes fail to realize is that most of the development is driven by actual business needs. Large parts of the work has been sponsored by organisations that need the module for their projects, but (understandably) they will only want to pay to port the parts that they need.

As with all open source projects, if your organisation or project really needs to have a certain feature implemented the best approach is to schedule the time for one of your developers to work on it. Asking for it here and expecting it to just magically happen is rather unrealistic. Somebody needs to do the work.

Thank you @amitaibu and @pfrenssen for considering the suggestion.
Although not ideal, signals like releasing alpha, beta and more frequent updates are important social proofs to attract new customers, new developers , new testers to the table. It is relatively easier to convince business side to sponsor development time when there is already an alpha or beta out than only dev release.

First alpha released! :)

https://www.drupal.org/project/og/releases/8.x-1.0-alpha1

Thanks @amitaibu and everybody who helped to get a D8 port.

Changing to status to "Needs review" which means the special status Project has Alpha or Beta D8 releases available for testing." and is also shown on project page.

Why is work on this module continuing when the Group module is fairly stable, and is running on 4,908 sites?

Are there vast differences between what this module aims to do for Drupal 8, and what Group is doing? If so, let's document that on the project page. Otherwise, let's simply have this module be an upgrade path to Group in Drupal 8. It would be a much better use of everyone's time to not duplicate efforts.

Thanks @colan.

> It would be a much better use of everyone's time to not duplicate efforts.

Group actually started as a new effort (i.e. after OG7), to tackle the complex task of group functionality. I'm happy it's there, since it grew up to be a great solution. So in general I'm not the idea of "duplicating" efforts.

However, the way it solves the group functionality problem, is in a different way than OG. I've already documented some of the differences - both in mindset and in actual implementation between both of them.

Ah, good to know. I'll review in more detail shortly. Would you kindly list it as an alternative on the project page, linking to that blog post? It would help users decide what's best for them.

For what it's worth, I reopened #1457506: Differences between OG and group module, text for project page. so that they could do the same thing over there.

Short answer: Different architecture, resulting in minor (some major) implementation details. There is a large overlap of use cases that both modules can solve and edge cases that would be easy to pull off with one module and really hard with the other.

@kristiaanvandeneynde, in a related issue you provided a comment that may be a useful, longer answer #1457506-8: Differences between OG and group module, text for project page. and previously had some more information for the group project page.

Having used og extensively through D6 and the 7.x-2.x rethink and having tried group for d7, what is important if not essential when building extended applications are features related to group access (including by role), group context, and working well with other access control modules. Both og and the group module provide these in various ways.

Is there a duplication of effort? As of yet, I haven't taken a look at the D8 implementation of either module.

Comment #1457506-8: Differences between OG and group module, text for project page.

Organic Groups 2

still hi-jacks or repurposes nodes
only fieldable entities can be groups
has an entity appoach

Group

has its own entities to deal with group functionality
can have any entity as children, even non-fieldable ones
doesn't just have an entity approach, it's 100% based on entities

@kristiaanvandeneynde

and edge cases that would be easy to pull off with one module and really hard with the other.

Any examples?

@izmeez Please refrain from abusing the issue. This issue is about the port of OG, not about differences with alternatives. Current state for d8 is an alpha, not something you want to use on a live site, by definition!

My understanding of the paradigm shift with og-7.x-2.x was to leverage the EntityReference module and in doing so used node as a primary example of referencing a content type of entity. From this approach emerge some advantages that were well discussed in earlier issues.

This also allows to structure groups based on some other type of entity other than a content type. Is this an advantage for edge cases or a more convoluted way to reference group entities?

@mmjvb My apologies. I found myself carried away by the discussions in comments #63 onwards. You are right that really is the subject of another issue, be it the differences or avoiding duplication of effort that crept in.

This issue is, rightfully, porting OG to D8 including the milestone of the alpha release. My apologies. It would be nice if those other comments could be pruned into a new issue :-)

@izmeez No problem, you are not the only one. Postponed the other issue in Group because there is no D8 of OG yet. The alpha is not enough to describe the differences between the two. So, the priority should be to get to Stable releases of both OG and Group. At which time the differences could be documented again.

@amitaibu

You are a great developer. But the og for Drupal 8 is being delayed for way too long. I understand you have other priorities but this module is important to many people I believe. If you need $ you can ask for a donation so people who need this can have it sooner. Or maybe make it a paid module. Your last article about og is almost 3 years old. Or just say it will take another 3 years. Sorry about being impatient. I have been waiting for this module to migrate a D7 site.

I also understand why people wanted to compare og with group. I do that too. Because we need to make a choice. If there will be no d8 version for og or it might take for too long then I would just go with group.

Thanks @nanc2 for the compliments.

> If you need $ you can ask for a donation so people who need this can have it sooner

Tried that. Didn't work well enough to sponsor the amount of work needed. So it goes as fast as me and the other maintainers get to invest.

> Because we need to make a choice.

Sure, both choices are there - and both are good. We have launched for example about 6 months ago UN site running on OG (few countries already in - and the goal is to have 150 countries). It was sponsored work, so we were able to contribute a bit to OG itself. I might need to do more noise about OG8 being production worthy ;)

As always, I stand behind my offer - if you or others write a PR, I promise it will be reviewed (and when go to go, merged)

@nanc please try out the most recent alpha release for your migration and report any issues you might find.

A new alpha release with support for Drupal 8.7 is on its way.

I invite people following this issue and that are interested in Organic Groups to join Slack to discuss and receive updates about Organic Groups.

Time for new alpha release perhaps? Last alpha release (alpha2) was six months ago. And as you an see from download stats, each alpha release seems to signal more folks to try out OG-8.x

Please refrain from asking for something here, ask anywhere you want BUT here. Bring the answer here if it is related to D8 version.

I might need to do more noise about OG8 being production worthy ;)

I think moving from alpha to beta would be a good first step for this.
I don't think many people consider alpha to be production ready, especially for such a complex module that often forms the foundation of a site it's used on.

Also, having any information on the project page as to the status of the port would be useful.

Currently, although I prefer the OG architecture over groups, things that persuade me not to pursue OG for a large important project are:

• Nothing on project page about D8 status
• Still in alpha
• No roadmap/meta issues in queue that outline what needs to be done for beta/rc

As mentioned on the project page we are using Github for development, you won't find this info in the Drupal issue queue. The beta roadmap is here: https://github.com/Gizra/og/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Bet...

Any help is more than welcome, there are a handful of remaining issues before we can release the first beta.

Added Beta blockers on GitHub mentioned above.

Cool, thanks for the info.