Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Now happens every Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3304373`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

xjm :wave:  xjm, core release manager
catch Nat. Back in my usual timezone (physically if not physiologically yet).
hestenet (he/him) Tim from the DA just trying to stay on top of the news :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala) Björn, just back from driving around getting my kid to sleep :sweat_smile:
Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil) Ilcho Vuchkov, Bulgaria EU, modules co/maintainer
Warped Dave in Chicago, lurking and soaking up info.
larowlan :wave:
andypost Andy, late
quietone Hi, catching up
Kristen Pol (she/her) Kristen, California, catching up (@Björn Brala (bbrala) I still remember those days! :sleeping:)
Meeni Meeni, India :wave:
Vighnesh Sadagopal Hi Vighnesh, India :wave:
gambry Gab, hi everyone.

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

xjm Drafting the beta1 release notes!
xjm We should also run down the outstanding beta1 requirements since there are only two more weeks!
xjm Individual threads for must-haves, then for should-haves of module removals?
Björn Brala (bbrala) Rdf maintainership. Its been 9 days, with a try through contact form. Is it possible to expedite the new maintainership process?#3304913: Offering to co-maintain RDF
xjm I put that in the RDF thread
xjm The next should-have threads we need are for the themes
xjm Another should-have is that #3258987: Status report should warn about OPcache bug in PHP 8.1.0 to 8.1.5 needs UX review, possibly just a re-review from @benjifisher :slightly_smiling_face:
benjifisher I already got a reminder about that in the #contribute channel.
benjifisher I intend to have a look in a few hours.
xjm Oops sorry :slightly_smiling_face: Didn't realize
xjm #3293811: Discuss whether to enforce the Composer 2.3.5 requirement for more than just core development should also get a should-have thread
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) @xjm opened https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1661799859702879 for themes, that is the only theme related item in the beta requirements I found
xjm @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Yeah Seven and Bartik are missing; I will fix that
xjm @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Oh because they are done? Yay
xjm We should celebrate that
Björn Brala (bbrala) hehe
Björn Brala (bbrala) Every removal is reason for a party ^^
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Celebrated Bartik last week :slightly_smiling_face: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1661192487892629
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Seven happened since, so we should celebrate that this week :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala) :stuck_out_tongue:
Warped Does a virtual celebratory drink mean a virtual hangover??? :zany_face::wink:

2️⃣ The second global porting weekend was last week! Thanks @spleshka (he/him), @kalabro, @Tamsin Fox-Davies for your leadership, @Kristen Pol (she/her) for your tremendous help and all mentors and attendees for your contribution!

spleshka (he/him) best event in the whole poor non-person-facing-world for me :slightly_smiling_face: Was very proud to be a part of it and thanks for everyone who made it happen! (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her) Yay! I think it went very well! I just finished with adding all the people (I could find) who participated #3306409: Participation in August 2022 Drupal 10 Global Porting Day
Kristen Pol (she/her) Looks like ~60 people... I haven't looked at the orgs yet
spleshka (he/him) great! It’s about the same size as the previous event as far as I can see
gambry It was well prepared and organised. It’s clear we’ve all improved.The only comment I have to make is documentation got harder and harder while getting closer to the event. From two original documentation pages back in July, now we have five of them.Also the pages are interlinked. For example to understand how to setup locally you go:Setting up Drupal 9 and Drupal 10 development environmentswhich at the end then links to Getting started at Drupal 10 Global Porting Day#contribution pathswhere you can chose either Manually testing Drupal 10 compatibility patches or Creating or updating compatibility patches with Composer and DDevDue last minutes additions, some paragraphs don’t make much sense and are confused, i.e. Create/Update Drupal 10 compatibility patch sections reads ” Just press the “Create issue fork”"   without context where this button is, “Drupal.org provides two ways:” and there are 3 bullet points.Not a complaint, just an observation D.org documentation tends to get too complex then it needs.I’m a big advisor of “less is more”, providing ONE way for doing stuff and a “Read More” list of links at the bottom for advanced users. We won’t cover all our beautiful processes diversity, but contributors will get up and running faster.Again, not a complaint, just an observation if many feels the same way.Said that, wonderful job everyone!

3️⃣ Help with the beta1 release notes!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Raised by @xjm
xjm I created a stub plan issue with instructions at: #3306660: Draft release notes for 10.0.0-beta1
xjm The first task is to consolidate the release notes from previous alphas into a coherent outline for beta1, because the audience of beta1 is much wider and people using it will not necessarily have installed alphas
xjm (I will document the next steps in the IS as we get there)
xjm We could use everyone's help with this!

4️⃣ Beta must have: Compatibility with PHP 8.2

xjm PHP 8.2 RC1 comes out this week!
xjm We really need to do a better job of keeping the IS of #3283358: [META] Make Drupal 9/10 compatible with PHP 8.2 up to date though; I never know what's an actual blocker
xjm I think the big thing here is #3275851: [META] Fix PHP 8.2 dynamic property deprecations ?
xjm That one has a lot of open child issues
andypost Generally all children are optional except container's serialisation
andypost We covered it via annotation
xjm @andypost Could we list the must-haves in the issue summary?
andypost great idea! done https://www.drupal.org/node/3275851/revisions/view/12759957/12770449
andypost Updated, so only 4 "must-have"s left to fix #3275851: [META] Fix PHP 8.2 dynamic property deprecations#comment-14672460 (edited)
andypost @xjm FYI all dependencies are already compatible so I closed #3291553: [META] Check and update dependencies for PHP 8.2 compatibility
andypost @xjm I think we can close #3283358: [META] Make Drupal 9/10 compatible with PHP 8.2 as there's only 1 must have and infra issue to update labels in CI
andypost ah no, in patch testing issue there's 100 failed tests(
xjm Oops
andypost last night it was 109 https://www.drupal.org/pift-ci-job/2462313so #3299828: Stop storing Settings singleton in object properties fixed only 4 tests /cc @catch
andypost will run with updated patch https://www.drupal.org/pift-ci-job/2463136 (edited)
andypost @mixologic PHP 8.2.0RC1 is packaged https://downloads.php.net/~pierrick/
andypost RTBCed vendoring last compatibility bits #3306946: Update Composer dependencies in 10.0 and 9.5, and increase constraints to require latest minors#comment-14675674 /cc @xjm (edited)

5️⃣ Beta must have: Compatibility with Symfony 6.2 branch tip

xjm Since 6.2 won't be released yet, this is more "Address all the deprecations in Symfony 6.1 that we can until the alpha is released in October"
larowlan There's definitely issues in the param resolver, I was using 6.2 Dev locally when porting EH to d10 and all the entity param resolvers were broken
xjm Do we have an issue for that yet?
larowlan yeah its under the meta
xjm Can we tag it as a beta blocker and get it in the IS?
larowlan sorry, its a comment under the 6.2 compat issue #3284422: [META] Symfony 6.2 compatibility#comment-14657865
xjm Can we make an issue for the comment and tag it as a beta blocker? :slightly_smiling_face:
larowlan Andy did:+1:

6️⃣ Beta must have: CKEditor 5 stability and deprecating CKEditor 4 (edited) 

xjm A couple next steps:
xjm - Get #3270438: Remove CKEditor 4 from core passing and green, with an equivalent 1.0.x branch in the contrib module also passing its tests etc.
lleber Does the re-platforming of CKEditor5 to Typescript trickle down to us at all? ( https://github.com/ckeditor/ckeditor5/issues/11704 ) ?We're determined to not break the backward compatibility (except minor aspects). We are aiming at making the migration for a great majority of JS-based projects that used CKEditor 5 for now seamless.Drupal's use of ckeditor has traditionally been a bit outside of the great majority :smile:
xjm hates Typescript
xjm That's a question for @wimleers (he/him) or @lauriii maybe -- I was unaware of this
lleber I was too until yesterday.  Seems like a pretty...big deal.  Especially for contrib...it'd be a pretty hard ask to rewrite things for ckeditor5, and then rewrite them again for ckeditor5. (edited)
lauriii AFAIK TypeScript is added on top and it’s not forcing us to rewrite in TS
catch #3304736: Provide a good UX to ensure the CKEditor 4 to 5 update is always done before upgrading to Drupal 10 unless the contrib module is installed is a new beta blocker (but not a blocker for ckeditor5 being stable)
xjm Yeah, planning to update that issue later today. I think we should complete the removal issue first so that we can test the "real" upgrade path with our solution (be it an update hook or a manual script)

7️⃣ Beta must have: Finalize decision about assets build step and implement it (edited) 

xjm There is some hesitation on this because removing the build step causes a 13% regression in frontend asset size. I think that this is significant enough that we might want to postpone removing the build step until we have minification for JS in core. However, @lauriii and @nod_ and @wimleers (he/him) suggested that the DX improvement of removing the build step outweighed this (significant) performance regression.@catch and others, thoughts?
catch @xjm latest is that we might want to re-use the build step to do js minification of core assets so we only have to minify contrib/custom on the fly. This would require changes to what's there now but it might be easier to modify than remove and put back. Don't really know though.

8️⃣ Beta must have: Update frontend dependencies (popper.js to floating-ui and yarn 1 to yarn 3) (edited) 

xjm For this, we have a PR in the works for an upstream dependency: https://github.com/shipshapecode/shepherd/pull/2037
xjm We are working with the Shepherd maintainers to come up with the right approach.
xjm After that, there will be a core issue to change our direct usage
xjm I am not sure about whether Yarn 3 is still in scope -- @lauriii @nod_?
nod_ Let's not do it now. Yarn3 makes us commit a 3+mb exécutable in the repo to work
xjm OK, we'll move that to the D11 roadmap

9️⃣ Beta must have: Support PHPUnit 10 in Drupal 10 (edited) 

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) #3217904: [meta] Support PHPUnit 10 in Drupal 11
xjm This is another one like Symfony 6 which is aspirational and possibly mis-titled since it is not available. It should be "Address all deprecations in PHPUnit 9" maybe.
xjm I will retitle the issue'
xjm Done:[meta] Address PHPUnit 9 deprecations in Drupal 10 for forward-compatibility with PHPUnit 10
larowlan We've done these in a minor with a BC shim before, supporting multiple versions at once, might be in the same boat here
xjm Yeah I think we're going to have to do that based on PHPUnit's lack of release so far

🔟 .1️⃣ Beta should have: remove EasyRDF

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) #3267267: [Meta] Tasks to deprecate RDF
xjm Right now we are waiting on #3304913: Offering to co-maintain RDF
Björn Brala (bbrala) Ah, just suggested that topic.
Björn Brala (bbrala) Been 9 days, is there cause to let this go faster?
xjm We should maybe move it to the project maintainers' queue a bit before the two weeks due to the urgency for D10
Björn Brala (bbrala) There has been an issue, and contact form was used. No response
Björn Brala (bbrala) I would vote to expedite. But that's me :sweat_smile:
xjm The process we need to follow is documented here: https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/managing-a-drupalorg-theme-module-or...…]ect/maintainership/taking-over-unsupported-abandoned-projects
xjm I think we can take this step next:If there is no response, move the issue to the Drupal.org project ownership issue queue, by changing the issue's Project field to Drupal.org project ownership and the Component field to Abandoned/unsupported projects, to bring it to the attention of someone who is able to make any change.
Björn Brala (bbrala) Ok, I can't imagine the maintainers for that don't hang around here ;)But I'll move it. Even though its a little under 2 weeks
xjm Once you do that, I'll reach out to maintainers of the maintainers queue and indicate to them that this is a D10 blocker
xjm @timplunkett (he/him) and @mlhess are both listed
Björn Brala (bbrala) I've moved the issue: #3304913: Offering to co-maintain RDF#comment-14672311
timplunkett (he/him) @scor ^ (edited)
xjm @timplunkett (he/him) scor can't fix it; only arto has permission. Or the sec team/project maintainer maintainers. (edited)
timplunkett (he/him) Aha I misread the permissions grid on the project. Sorry Stephane
timplunkett (he/him) Could he provide signoff and then I can push the button? To avoid waiting the full 2 weeks
timplunkett (he/him) RTBC the issue
Björn Brala (bbrala) :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala) Ping @smustgrave ^^ Lets get this done this week? :drupalparrot:
xjm @timplunkett (he/him) I also posted about this in the sec team channel just now asking for opinions on whether it was okay for us to accelerate the process with our perms
xjm (Since it's sort of about the security of the D10 upgrade path and D10 being released on time for core to have sec coverage etc.)
smustgrave Sure available to help out however I can
Björn Brala (bbrala) @xjm there has been a post?
Björn Brala (bbrala) #3304913: Offering to co-maintain RDF#comment-14672441
Björn Brala (bbrala) By @Gisle Hannemyr
Björn Brala (bbrala) (I'm guessing)
Björn Brala (bbrala) @xjm (didn't select you)
scor I also just sent an email to arto@bendiken.net for good measure.
Björn Brala (bbrala) What he mentions, YOU need to do these steps. But i hope @xjm and @hestenet (he/him) can perhaps smooth something out here. :X (edited)
scor so I think the question is: can someone who is a maintainer (git-wise) but lacks the "administer maintainers" permission approve a transfer of ownership for an abandoned module. I don't know the answer to that.
hestenet (he/him) I think an existing maintainer who doesn't have full permisisons coul dbe upgraded to have more maintainer permissions - and thus able to do more ownership transfer things
hestenet (he/him) I'd be happy to support that with whatever cred my word carries.
scor in that case I could help
xjm I posted a comment, might be a little exasperated
xjm I do not appreciate the kneejerk kick back to the contrib queue, but maybe they are lacking context
xjm And I guess they probably have to do this a lot for random contrib
hestenet (he/him) Followed up with a comment that I think makes a good case to gisle
hestenet (he/him) Followed up again to confirm that I'm going to upgrade @scor to have administer maintainer privleges - and from there you can add new maintainers as any maintainer would.
xjm Thanks @hestenet (he/him) -- I technically have permissions to do that, but governance-wise I don't think I'm allowed to
hestenet (he/him) Yup. Better to follow and update our own process as needed.
hestenet (he/him) Updated policy: https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/managing-a-drupalorg-theme-module-or...…]ect/maintainership/taking-over-unsupported-abandoned-projects
Björn Brala (bbrala) :heart: thanks guys
Björn Brala (bbrala) and sorry @scor actually missed you were maintainer xD
scor should be all fixed now
xjm Hooray!
quietone :tada:
Kristen Pol (she/her) Thanks everyone for coming together so quickly to make this happen including updating the policy for this rare situation!

🔟 . 2️⃣ Beta should have: remove Farbtastic (edited) 

xjm This is related to the Color deprecation
xjm #3306208: Deprecate farbtastic in 9.5.x is RTBC, but with a question from @catch
xjm One last question for me though is whether we need a jquery farbtastic module in contrib for those modules to then depend on, or whether they should just sort it out themselves.
xjm My personal opinion is that jQuery UI is used muuucccch more than Farbtastic so we probably don't need contrib for Farbtastic
xjm We have enough contrib to maintain for the D10 upgrade path..... unless someone is invested in it
catch Color module is going to need something itself if we don't make a separate module.
xjm That
xjm is a good point
xjm @lauriii @nod_ Thoughts on whether Farbtastic should get a contrib project? Or how we should fix Color if not?
xjm If we go the contrib project route we might need to apply a similar solution to the jQuery UI projects' current issue
nod_ @xjm i wouldn't make a contrib project, farbtastic is gone for good. last update in 2017 and it's a project from 2006-ish. I would go with #1651344 and some light JS to replicate the current functionalities
xjm @nod_ Well we need a BC upgrade path for core to contrib
xjm @nod_ No one is going to implement the above issue in time for the beta deadline in 10 days
xjm So if we don't want to spend time on it, than the Color update instructions will need to include a manual step of "Download Farbtastic from blah and add it to blah"
nod_ that's fine with me
nod_ Although farbtastic is properly abandonned, so that could mean it's possible to have on d.o per the security team guidelines no even if it's not the prefered option?

🔟 . 3️⃣ Beta should have: remove QuickEdit

xjm The removal has been manually tested, and this just needs review to see if any steps were missed or anything: [#3303780]I have not read the full details but with someone's +1 this could probably be marked RTBC/fixed.
xjm Meanwhile #3304893: Add Quick Edit metadata to core field formatters needs commit to the contrib project
xjm #3264949: Move Quick Edit help topics to contrib Quick Edit module also needs work for the contrib module -- this would be good for someone to pick up
Björn Brala (bbrala) I will check the manual review.
xjm #3227033: Remove Quick Edit from core also NR
Björn Brala (bbrala) #3303780: Manually test QuickEdit module removal has been reviewed, tested and RTBC'd.
Björn Brala (bbrala) having good scripts saves so much time xD
Björn Brala (bbrala) Ok, that issue you just posted has 228 comments not including gitlab. Thats a bit much for right now
xjm LOL
Björn Brala (bbrala) A lot of it was discovery of the process it seems, its not that bad.
Björn Brala (bbrala) couldn't help myself.
Björn Brala (bbrala) Ok, so i read through this whole monster. I've applied the patch to 10.0.x. I've search for: quickedit, quick, quick edit. And found only some references in the settings tray. Which are talked about in length in comments from #210. Therefor this seems like we ended up with a clean removal.#3303780: Manually test QuickEdit module removal has been fixed just a minute ago, that was the last blocked. The issues in the contrib module for the last few parts of missing code/texts have been made and RTBC or close to it.Id say. Nuke it with fire <3
xjm Looks like we should fix the Settings Tray thing
xjm In the contrib issue, and maybe a separate issue for core
Björn Brala (bbrala) #3304909: Skip contrib Quick Edit's Settings Tray integration test until Settings Tray provides an API to improve integration in #3308867 ?
xjm Yep that 'un
Björn Brala (bbrala) 'un?
xjm One, in slang :stuck_out_tongue:
Björn Brala (bbrala) haha :stuck_out_tongue:
Björn Brala (bbrala) Hmm
catch There's one comment in settings_tray that says quickedit, but it means 'contextual links' looking at the code. Everything else is fine so I have done this #3227033: Remove Quick Edit from core#comment-14672424
Björn Brala (bbrala) Do we need a followup to remove those strings?
xjm Yeah that's a good idea
Björn Brala (bbrala) I'll do that
xjm @catch Tentacles indeed
catch We should change the comment to say 'contextual links'.
Björn Brala (bbrala) Thats a really small change :x
Björn Brala (bbrala) Anyways, ill open the issue and mark it easy starter issue and add your suggestion.
catch Oh wait bad grepping, there's a few more strings.
catch Tentacles or heads :disappointed:
xjm Yeah I documented a bunch in my issue comment
xjm It's all over ST
xjm (Unfortunately)
Björn Brala (bbrala) image.png
xjm And I think it's legit Quick Edit integration, not just a bad issue comment
catch Yeah that block rename one is, although easy to just ignore quickedit.
xjm This is such a perfect example of why having incomplete features in core is bad. All the other features get built around it even though we know it's not great. Very much a case study for a session or whatnot.
catch And not removable in 9.5
Björn Brala (bbrala) You never know if incomplete features will end up completing. So yeah, first deliver, then integrate.
Björn Brala (bbrala) Openend #3306681: Settings tray still has references to Quick Edit
Björn Brala (bbrala) That was a satifieing git pull 164 files changed, 2262 insertions(+), 21111 deletions(-)
Kristen Pol (she/her) Curious if we have a feel for how many fewer lines D10 beta will be in general with the module removals
xjm Well there's also all the LOC removed for deprecated code and legacy tests
xjm Majors are significantly smaller than their paired minor from the previous major
Kristen Pol (she/her) True! Lots of code removal :100:

🔟 . 4️⃣ Beta should have: remove usages of Modernizr (edited) 

xjm #3269082: Remove HTML5 details collapse polyfill
xjm This is a blocker for us to deprecate it in 10.1 and remove it in D11
xjm There's some feedback on the MR that needs to be addressed
xjm We could use someone's help on this

🔟 . 5️⃣ Beta should have: Discuss whether to enforce the Composer 2.3.5 requirement for more than just core development (edited) 

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) #3293811: Discuss whether to enforce the Composer 2.3.5 requirement for more than just core development
xjm We could use framework manager feedback on this, or feedback from people who actually do deployments as to whether this requirement is reasonable
xjm So far some people are strongly in favor of increasing this requirement, and others don't feel strongly one way or the other, but no one opposed to the change yet

🔟 . 6️⃣ Beta should have: UX review needed for status report waring about OPcache bug in PHP 8.1.0 to 8.1.5

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) #3258987: Status report should warn about OPcache bug in PHP 8.1.0 to 8.1.5
xjm There's also a mysterious test failure we need to solve but mostly concerned ATM about getting the UX signoff on the improved versions of the MRs. The manual testing for each PHP and branch combination is documented in the issue comments with screenshots.

🔟 . 7️⃣ Beta should have: Stabilize Starterkit, ensure a Drupal 10 version of the starter theme is generated, and move Classy and Stable 8 to contrib

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) This is actually listed as a “possibly a must have TBD”
xjm Yeah, our perspective right now is that we would delay the beta if needed to get this in
xjm #3304731: Update remaining tests using Classy to use Starterkit is the next critical step here
xjm (We got as far as we could on #3083275: [meta] Update tests that rely on Classy to not rely on it anymore and the remaining tests can continue to be improved in beta, but we're now going for our emergency exit of just changing tests to starterkit instead of the "right" fix of going stark)

1️⃣ 1️⃣ :tada: The Seven theme was removed from core! Thanks all!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) #3304285: Remove Seven from core
xjm Two themes down, two to go :slightly_smiling_face:
xjm Thank you everyone who helped, on behalf of all the core maintainers :heart:
Björn Brala (bbrala) We still need to remove 2 themes? :x
xjm Yep, Classy and Stable (8)
Björn Brala (bbrala) In 11? Or 10?
xjm All blocked by that testing Classy-to-Starterkit issue ^^
xjm Ideally in D10
xjm Starterkit is supposed to replace Classy and Classy is a pain in the butt from a maintenance and bugfix perspective
Björn Brala (bbrala) Fair enough. I don't theme at all, so I'm not of much help there. :cry:
Björn Brala (bbrala) But i'm guessing i'll burn another jsonapi day for drupal 10 stuff friday :x

1️⃣ 2️⃣ This was it for the meeting today, see you next week in the LAST meeting before the beta deadline.

Comments

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Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.