Agenda items

Standing items

  • Who is here
  • Any other suggested topics
  • Wins / Thanks / Blockers
  • Statistics and functionality update. X new bugs created in last two weeks. Y closed by the initiative.
  • The bug I would most like to see fixed
  • Update on target items from last meeting
  • What should be the initiative focus for the next 2 weeks?

Statistics

Statistics graph

ToDos

.0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread to introduce yourself. We’ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours to allow for all timezones

kimb0 Kim - Aus
larowlan Lee Aus
gaurav mahlawat Gauravmahlawat India
mohit_aghera Mohit - India
Griffyn Heels Griff - Sydney
Kunal Kapoor kunalkapoor , india
Spokje Frank - Netherlands
dww Derek - US
jibran Jibran, AU
Neslee Neslee, valencia
anmolgoyal74 Hi
Indrajith KB Hi, Indrajith from India
lendude Len, Amsterdam
hansa11 Hansa, India :wave:
Kristen Pol (she/her) Kristen, central California, catching up
mansoor20 Hello everyone :wave:
anjalivijay Hello, Anjali from India :wave:
Paulo Henrique Cota Starling Paulo :flag-br:
ambermatz Amber, USA

0️⃣ . 5️⃣ What are you listening to at the moment

Griffyn Heels Got some jazzy hip hop stuff on for working to
quietone The fan heater keeping my toes warm
larowlan https://open.spotify.com/album/4hW28CA2Te2kcyFMD06VP2?si=QWqk-L9zRr2QXrm...
Michael (g-brodiei) Missed the vibe during covid lockdown lolhttps://www.imissmybar.com/
jibran I'm obsessed with Raanjhanaa's sound track lately. (edited)
Griffyn Heels Nice rec @Michael (g-brodiei)
lendude Usual mix of a little bit of everything (as long as its relatively loud :smile: ) https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1zcHDH06JVheA3cjL476CE?si=elDhZzIESpaZ...
Kristen Pol (she/her) Upbeat indie stuff... e.g. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1EQqkOPvHGajmW?si=2zIVtn-1RReq...
Paulo Henrique Cota Starling https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7sbPKFKDGBWzOMAv4eBJ0H?si=f3265405a8d0...
dww Maracatu Batuque Estrelado.  Not that they're on Spotify. :wink: From a CD (remember those?) I picked up at a record store (or those?!) in Recife, now ripped and on my phone so I can actually hear it...
ambermatz I play the accordion and I listen to a lot of accordion music. This is one I’ve been listening to a lot lately: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3pT4Z3PhVGHW1FnySMBQSG?si=2b517950e910...

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

larowlan Issue triage creditsDrupalcon Europe submissionCore 8.9 and 9.1 are now security only
mohit_aghera +1 to DrupalCon Europe Submission
quietone An item to approve the previous minutes.
quietone New initiative page needs formatting, https://www.drupal.org/node/3215948
Spokje How to handle the "endless" stream of people posting a screenshot that a patch applied OK and/or giving an RTBC+1 without putting the issue on RTBC. Could be gaming the system, could be pure enthusiasm, could be the documentation being not clear.Is there something we can do to help? (edited)
Spokje RTBC patches, is there something we can do to prevent them from rerolling them for ages until a core committer commits/reacts?
dww @larowlan not sure if you saw @Spokje’s suggested threads...
larowlan sorry, was in a call
Kristen Pol (she/her) Late to the party but any mentored contribution events coming up?
ambermatz I would appreciate some general guidance/education on discerning between support requests and bugs. I tend to want to help, but I also want to be a more effective “triager”, so any tips are appreciated.

2️⃣.1️⃣ Wins - what wins have you had since the last meeting? Share your successes! (edited) 

quietone Is 'December' a typo?
quietone While not finished, I am enjoying working on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/65474
dww A test that has given me a lot of grief over many issues just saved me from Doing It Wrong(tm) at #2396145: Option #description_display for form element fieldset is not changing anything.  Automated tests FTW!
dww We smashed https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/84883 - 5 digit nid bug from 2006 (the year I started contributing to Drupal!)...
larowlan oh that was the one I was looking for - thanks @dww
Spokje At the risk of ripping the time continuum fabric by adding 2 wins I had during this meeting...The explanations on the 2 topics I "crowbarred" into this meeting, made by both @larowlan and @dww were/are/will be super helpful.EDIT: Super bonus points for showing me there is a :delorean: (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her) Wrote an update for the initiative for the DA[#3217385]

2️⃣.2️⃣ Thanks - a space for callouts to other contributors who’ve helped you

quietone Berdir,  has done reviews on two different issues pushing me into areas I don't normally go.
mohit_aghera Thanks to @quietone for reviewing many issues. That helped me to learn many things as well. :thumbsup: (edited)

2️⃣.3️⃣ Blockers - what’s getting in the way of your issues / goals

larowlan Very busy at work atm
quietone Not taking enough walks.
larowlan Getting a puppy forces you to get more walks in :slightly_smiling_face:
Spokje Very busy in (new freelance) job. Puppy for sale to prevent spending time on walks...
Kristen Pol (she/her) New freelance job the last 3 weeks for me too... company is in Australia so working late yet still waking up early so long days... but having fun with it
ambermatz It’s been a disruptive past couple of weeks and haven’t been able to set aside the time I would like on working on issues. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, so hopefully that will change soon! :slightly_smiling_face:

3️⃣ Core bug statistics - current state of open bugs

quietone Today: 2021-06-08
From: 2021-05-25 to 2021-06-08
All bugs Open: 42, including 9 fixed
Closed: 86
Age Count
00 43
01 12
02 03
03 08
04 06
05 04
06 04
07 03
08 02
11 01
Status Count
closed (duplicate) 24
closed (works as designed) 6
closed (outdated) 14
closed (fixed) 36
closed (won't fix) 1
closed (cannot reproduce) 5
Approximately 202 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs.
quietone Only bugs tagged Bug Smash Initiative
Open: 9, including 6 fixed
Closed: 61
Age Count
00 23
01 10
02 02
03 08
04 05
05 04
06 04
07 03
08 01
11 01
Status Count
closed (duplicate) 20
closed (works as designed) 4
closed (outdated) 14
closed (fixed) 20
closed (cannot reproduce) 3 Approximately 179 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs.
larowlan :open_mouth: great work
kimb0 :clap:
lendude Awesome stuff!
Spokje Being a relative newbie in this initiative, I'm still surprised that we're actually making a dent. Kudos all-round on that.
lendude The fact that we are not just making the line for total number of years of bugs go up less steeply, but are actually making it go down is just amazing. Pretty sure that hasn’t happened since D8 was released (if ever).

4️⃣ Nominate your pet issue for a bug-smash target for the next fortnight

larowlan https://www.drupal.org/node/3099968 NR
mohit_aghera There are a few reviews on my past patches. I’m planning to work on that so we can speed up things.#3173639: Entity storage exception during module install missing @message parameter in watchdog_exception() call.
Kristen Pol (she/her) #2396145: Option #description_display for form element fieldset is not changing anything
Kristen Pol (she/her) 2014 bug ^
larowlan On my list already

5️⃣ Help me - Is there anything you could use a :hand: (edited)

6️⃣ Issue triage credits

larowlan There have been a few cases where an employee at one company opens an obvious duplicate, then another employee at the same company closes it as a duplicate, and then comments on our triage meta to get issue credits.We reserve the right to remove issue credit from the triage if we think it is being abused
lendude Sheesh.
Kristen Pol (she/her) We should report that behavior to the company's executive team. Usually it's not supported at that level
ambermatz Q: Should we wait (for how long?) or update a triage comment if the issue is re-opened within the triage fortnight? I have to double-check, but I think both the issues I closed were reopened a day or two later.

7️⃣ Drupalcon Europe submission

larowlan It would be great for our little team to feature again at Drupalcon
larowlan @lendude presented last year, and I presented at DC NA
larowlan It would be good for someone who has not presented before and is looking for an opportunity to speak to do so
larowlan e.g. @mohit_aghera if you're keen to submit on our behalf, +1
larowlan I suspect we'd just re-fresh the slides with new stats and add some personalised touches
larowlan Also, if there's ideas for more focussed sessions (like one on testing as you mentioned), that'd be great
mohit_aghera I’m open for it.
mohit_aghera Yes, I’m thinking since quite some time about the test cases. I’ll draft something.
mohit_aghera @lendude, are you willing to pair up for that test cases related session, may be we can take it forward.
lendude @mohit_aghera not sure I’ll be at Drupalcon yet, I’m thinking about just submitting the Kickstart testing talk, but haven’t made up my mind yet :shrug:
mohit_aghera @larowlan, I’ll share the draft for “Bug-smash initiative updates” session today, so you can have a look at it and I’ll submit it after that.
larowlan sounds good, thanks
Kristen Pol (she/her) @mohit_aghera thanks for submitting something:)

8️⃣ Core 8.9 and 9.1 are now security only (no more bug fixes)

larowlan This means when you're triaging, anything that is open for backport for 9.1 and 8.9 can be marked fixed and have the version updated to the lowest version it was committed to.
larowlan Only issues that help people upgrade would be eligible for backport (and security issues obviously)
kimb0 I saw an issue you commented on yesterday that was against 9.1.x
kimb0 #3213572: #date_time_callbacks and #date_date_callbacks bypass the TrustedCallbackInterface protections
kimb0 shouldn't that be against 9.3.x?
larowlan I'll move it to 9.2.x (lowest version it could go into)
quietone And what happens to the existing 8.9 and 9.1 bug reports?
larowlan if they still exist in 9.2, they get moved there
dww 9.2.0 final isn't even out yet.  The vast majority of D9 sites have got to still be on 9.1.x branch.  Why aren't we still back-porting bug fixes there?
Spokje Insert wild stab in the dark: Isn't the backporting still happening by committers discretion?
larowlan 9.1 has had its final bugfix release
larowlan so backporting isn't going to make it into a release
dww require_once('the_drop_is_always_moving.inc'); :nerd_face: (edited)
Spokje define("PREFERRED_DIRECTION", "forward");

9️⃣ Approve last meeting's minutes

quietone I've been updating the minutes issue and marking it Fixed. Instead, it should be done at the next meeting by the group.Are there any corrections to make to the minutes,
quietone #3213569: Meeting of the Bug Smash Initiative 2021-05-25
larowlan Reviewed and marked fixed
quietone Thx
lendude Good change to our workflow! If there is a template the organisers of this meet use to set up the threads, they should add it to the template too

1️⃣0️⃣ Looking for a volunteer to help format the new initiative page  https://www.drupal.org/node/3215948

larowlan @Griffyn Heels maybe you could help here?
quietone Once it looks better it then needs to be linked on https://www.drupal.org/community-initiatives/bug-smash-initiative. Which I guess the guide maintainer needs to do.
dww Weird, I thought I was a guide maintainer, since I wrote the original.  But it looks like jhodgdon is the only maintainer.  I'll ping them tmrw when it's more normal work hours about getting added as another guide maintainer.  Anyone else want to be on that train?
Griffyn Heels Sure, I'm happy to help, is this a content thing? Anyone want to jump on a call and chat through it.

1️⃣1️⃣How to handle the "endless" stream of people posting a screenshot that a patch applied OK and/or giving an RTBC+1 without putting the issue on RTBC. Could be gaming the system, could be pure enthusiasm, could be the documentation being not clear via @Spokje

larowlan I think gently pointing people to the right way of doing things is the best/only option here
Spokje I think I have to agree there.There is however one thing that makes it "profitable" to upload a screenshot:AFAIK the uploader of any file (be it patch, screenshot, the latest local weather forecast or whatever) is automagically added to the credit list of that issue.Would it be an option to not auto-credit when uploading just an image?Not sure who handles those rules and if this is an option, but IMHO it would make it less attractive/profitable for any potential "Playing-the-System".
dww One of the principles of a bodywork modality that I instruct is to try to always be simultaneously "firm and gentle".  I think "gently" pointing people to the right way is great.  And for committers to be firm about un-crediting people who do it wrong so that folks aren't getting credit for such "contributions".  The combo of being firm about our process / procedures, and gentle with how we interact with each other (not immediately assuming ill-will or malice, as I so often do when I see such things) is a great approach to aspire to achieve.  I generally see our core maintainers doing an amazing job of finding this balance.  May we all strive to live up to the standards they're setting...
dww @Spokje I used to help maintain all the code that powers d.o.  I no longer directly do.  But (at least while we've still got a d.o issue queue at all and haven't completely moved to Gitlab for everything), it's definitely still possible to change such things.  Mostly that happens in the #drupalorg and/or #drupal-infrastructure channels.  Neil Drumm is the primary person on the DA staff who approves such changes.  There's a whole process for getting a d.o sandbox dev environment.  I'd be happy to help on any of that.
dww However, the original justification for defaulting to credit for non-patch file, too, was to cut against the perception / assumption / belief that the only kind of contributions that "count" are in the form of code patches.  So we wanted to encourage folks to upload screenshots and other files, too.  That's real work, real contributions.  Or at least, it can be...
Spokje Yeah, stuff like this is always a double-edged sword. You don't want to make it worse. (edited)
dww For a very long time, "talk is silver, code is gold" was the a motto of the Drupal community, much to our detriment. (edited)
Spokje Fully agree  with that, just wanted to get some input on my "hunch/gut-feeling/whatever" and a general interest in how these things work behind the scenes on stuff like this on d.o.Thanks @dww for the insights and clear explanations. (edited)
dww All that said, I regularly find myself thinking the default behavior of the issue credit system is weird.  Someone who left 30 detailed review comments over the life of an issue, shaping the course of how it went, but not uploading any patches at all (to remain elibible to RTBC) will get buried as the 18th contributor to fixing something that 17 other people uploaded a single iteration of a patch on...  That's not really fair.  It also doesn't really matter.  Our commit message format is so weird and unruly, the order of that huge block of usernames at the front of the message is sort of irrelevant.
dww semi-off-topic plug for #2802947: [meta] Use the Git commit message format from AngularJS ;)
larowlan I think both of those will probably go out the window if we go full gitlab
dww So we're doomed to have commit messages that you can't scan to figure out what the changes actually are forever? ;)
dww @larowlan Would you be willing to clarify what "both of those" you mean?
larowlan if we adopt gitlab without customisation, then our commit authors would likely be those who worked on the patch right rather than in a commit message? like symfony etc
dww Don't we squash commits when merging MRs?
dww What's gonna be the format for those squashed commit messages?
larowlan :shrug: don't know sorry, but I'm guessing it will require manual intervention by the committer because we're talking about vanilla gitlab
dww I think it's going to be a disaster if we go full wild west, with no conventions on commit messages.  And, we're getting way off topic for this thread. ;)  My bad.
larowlan there will need to be a convention, agree, but I don't know what the safety rails will look like relative to what they are now
dww I'm honestly considering getting up to speed on Ruby development so I can contribute patches to gitlab to make it more friendly to some of the collaborative models we've grown accustomed to over so many years.  I'm really sad that Gitlab doesn't let anyone other than the original submitter edit an issue.  Going back to the dark ages before we collaborated to have an accurate issue summary is going to be a real shame... (edited)
Paulo Henrique Cota Starling As @dww pointed, and I agree, the only way people stop adding pictures to issues without any reason is if before a maintainer fixes the issue, he/she uncheck the issue credit for those people who just added a screenshot unnecessarily.It is really unfair when you work in an issue and you don't receive the credits because you don't post any attached file but you did a review and someone who just attached an unnecessary image receives credits.When I work in an issue I try to add something that will help the people that are already working on it so it is very frustrating when you see someone receiving credits for nothing and the person who worked on it, doesn't receive.

1️⃣ 2️⃣ RTBC patches, is there something we can do to prevent them from rerolling them for ages until a core committer commits/reacts

larowlan there has been a lot of freezes lately, between security releases and 9.2 beta/rcs
larowlan we're out of freeze at the moment, so need to find some time to address the backlog
larowlan things you can do to help are:review RTBC issues to make sure they actually are RTBC (often when I look at the RTBC queue, 50% of items are not, e.g tests for bugs, issue summary up to date)spend some of your karma pinging me here. by participating in core initiatives/queues you build up some karma. not every maintainer feels this way. but I'm keen on smashing bugs
larowlan cc @Spokje
Spokje tips hat @larowlan (edited)
Spokje Since I don't have a lot of free time on my hands currently, I at least try to have a daily look at the 3 oldest RTBC issues in the Core queue.Checking if:The patches/MR still apply (you'll be surprised how many RTBC patches somehow aren't retested 2-daily)The version of core the patch/MR is retested against matches the Version of the issue. (You'll be surprised how many 9.3 issues are tested/build on 9.1/9.2)(edited)
dww @Spokje Note that some maintainers look at the oldest RTBC issues first.  So if you ping one of them, you run the risk of resetting the 6 month counter for that issue to be seen again. ;)  Of course, if it needs a comment (re-roll, status change, etc), you gotta do what you gotta do.  But if you comment with "why hasn't this been committed yet?", you can inadvertently delay it even more. ;)
Spokje Gotcha (especially on that last one :innocent: )Although depending on that system is already fragile, not documenting that system makes it even worse IMHO.(If there is documentation on that, I completely missed it and would be happy to be pointed towards it) (edited)
dww It's not an official, documented policy.  Just something I've gleaned from hearing core committers discuss their process over the years...
larowlan the order I work in is, stuff people asked me to look at, oldest to newest (skipping stuff that's not in my purview like css/themes)

Participants:

kim.pepper, larowlan, gaurav mahlawat, mohit_aghera, Griffyn Heels, Kunal Kapoor, Spokje, dww, jibran, Neslee, anmolgoyal74, Indrajith KB, lendude, hansa11, Kristen Pol, mansoor20, anjalivijay, Paulo Henrique Cota Starling, ambermatz, quietone, Michael (g-brodiei)

Comments

quietone created an issue. See original summary.

quietone credited Amber Himes Matz.

quietone credited Gauravmahlawat.

quietone credited Kristen Pol.

quietone credited Lendude.

quietone credited Neslee Canil Pinto.

quietone credited Spokje.

quietone credited anmolgoyal74.

quietone credited dww.

quietone credited g-brodiei.

quietone credited griffynh.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented
Issue summary: View changes

quietone credited hansa11.

quietone credited jibran.

quietone credited kim.pepper.

quietone credited kunalkapoor.

quietone credited larowlan.

quietone credited mansoor20.

quietone credited mohit_aghera.

quietone credited paulocs.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented
quietone’s picture

quietone commented
Status: Active » Needs work

Still to do: credits and look for any todo items

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quietone commented
Issue summary: View changes
spokje’s picture

spokje
Primary language Dutch
commented
Issue summary: View changes

Removed double #10.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented
Issue summary: View changes
Status: Needs work » Needs review

Still need d.o names for two people, I have added this to the Issue Summary todo.

Setting this to NR.

guilhermevp’s picture

guilhermevp commented

I'm not sure, but did I miss the timeframe of the meeting?

kunal_kapoor’s picture

kunal_kapoor commented
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kunal_kapoor commented
gauravvvv’s picture

gauravvvv commented
quietone’s picture

quietone commented

There has been a bit of a change in the workflow for the minutes. When the minutes are set to Needs Review, it is to note any changes that may be needed. Typically, that would be to add todo items (I do try to update that) or maybe adjusting credit. The minutes will be marked fixed, after approval at the next meeting.

@guilhermevp, probably the easiest way to check the date and time is to go to the Bug Smash Iinitiative page on d.o., the link is in #bugsmash channel topic.

@kunalkapoor and @Gauravmahlawat, Did you intend to make a comment?

spokje’s picture

spokje
Primary language Dutch
commented

@quietone: I think what @guilhermevp is trying to say is, he replied in (some of) the threads of the meeting, but his comments (and presence) isn't in this meetings minutes.

I think the threads are open for 24 hours after the meeting starts and he (just) missed that cut-off time?

quietone credited anjalivijay.

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quietone commented

@Spokje, thanks for the clarification.

@guilhermevp, yes, the meeting stays open for 24 hours. It is stated in item '0' but maybe it should also be at the top of the IS? I'll bring that up in the next meeting. But I have not always captured the minutes at the 24 hour mark. But I am now trying to do so and to pay attention to the cut off time.

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quietone commented

quietone credited Indrajith KB.

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quietone commented
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quietone commented
Issue summary: View changes

Added credit, removed the todo item.
Update the todo list.

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quietone commented
Status: Needs review » Fixed

No changes to these minutes requested at the following meeting.

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.