Claro - April 6 2022 Meeting in Slack

This meeting takes place every Wednesday at at 3pm UTC (8:30pm IST, 4pm CET, 10am ET, 7am PST). See Time.is to see what that is in your timezone.

The meetings are held using Slack threads in the #admin-ui Slack channel.

UPDATED (transcript added)

Introductions
11 replies

katannshaw
Kat Shaw :wave:

javi-er
Hi all :raised_hands:, this is Javier

cindytwilliams
Cindy Williams :wave: — been lurking here for a few weeks and am trying to help out in the Claro issue queue as I find the time.

ckrina

rkoller
:wave: good evening, good afternoon and good morning

deviantintegral
:wave: Andrew, hello all!

andy-blum
:blob_wave:

mherchel
:wave:

katannshaw
Nice to “see” so many of you!

saschaeggi:gitlab:
:wave:

dww
:wave: Derek at TEN7, catching up late.

***

Claro general status update
➤ The goal is to have Claro as the default admin theme for D10, deprecating Seven.
➤ Beta requirements need to be ready by mid-May, so we should get rid of the remaining Claro stable blockers before that so we have time to finish the needed steps to deprecate Seven.

***

What agenda items would you like to discuss today? :thread:
3 replies

ckrina
:thread: What would be useful to discuss in the BoF at DrupalCon? (edited)

ckrina
:thread:Steps needed to make Claro the default admin theme
New

dww
Since the channel is quiet, any objection to opening :nine: to discuss next steps with Claro + Toolbar accessibility bugs?

***

Any further general updates from the maintainers or product managers? :thread:
1 reply

ckrina
We have a lot of stable blockers RTBC or Fixed, we’re almost there!

***

Where can contributors help this week?:thread:
18 replies

katannshaw
Note: If you want your item added to a new topic thread, add a thread icon :thread: with it

deviantintegral
I'm going to take another pass through https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3082672 (Form prefix / suffix redesign) (thanks @javi-er!), but could take another issue to review this week.

ckrina
Stable blockers that need work:
- https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3085219
Redesign Installer

- https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3271305
Claro's radio buttons and checkboxes are unusable in high-contrast / forced colors mode

mherchel
I have a couple Windows High Contrast issues that need review:
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3130305
Ensure all of Claro's background images are visible in forced colors mode.

https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3269417
Claro: Breadcrumb divider icon not always visible in forced colors

https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3227431
Tabledrag icon doesn't have proper contrast in high contrast mode

https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3271666
Olivero pager's next/prev icons don't properly adapt in forced colors

deviantintegral
The redesign installer issue needs someone with front-end expertise to push forward.

mherchel
Note that all of the high contrast issues need Windows... BUT... if you want, we can do a zoom call and you can review while I "drive". You'll need to do screenshots etc

deviantintegral
Let me ping Matt Olivera, he just set up windows high contrast in a VM and he could possibly do some review

javi-er
the last time I used https://assistivlabs.com/ for testing high contrast mode in Windows, it’s a paid service but they have a trial so it can be used for free

mherchel
@ckrina the "Redesign Installer" issue (https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3085219) isn't marked as a stable blocker on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3066007 Roadmap to stabilize Claro

ckrina
Not stable blocker, but the patch got rerolled and needs review: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3023322

ckrina
@mherchel not stable, but needed to make claro the default theme

katannshaw
Do any of these need new topic threads? If so please add :thread: to them. :wink:

mherchel
@javi-er FYI, I've been using Parallels for virtual machine.... its nice

ckrina
Maybe the windows high contrast issues can go to its own thread?

mherchel
sounds good to me!

andy-blum
@ckrina @deviantintegral I’ll pick up the installer issue

ckrina
Another issue that could need work (not stable blocker) is https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3083256 Create smaller variations for form elements

rkoller
and also the two meta issues in regards of aa color contrast conformance https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3088562 and focus visibility https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3163810 need work. i've worked through most of the admin interface and added a few more to the focus meta last weekend. and i think the issues of the color contrast meta could need design recommendation which colors to pick (or in the context of the grey button issue more elemental design decisions - if go with a more contrasty background or take the route of a more contrastful outline). then most of the tasks would be easily actionable to fix for anyone for the color contrast issue.

***

Topic 1: All high contrast issues (edited)
10 replies

mherchel
I have a couple Windows High Contrast issues that need review:
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3130305
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3269417
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3227431

mherchel
And if you want to learn more about high contrast, i'm giving a talk next week. see https://twitter.com/A11YTalks/status/1511433629565603851 @A11YTalks Next week: “Practical Styling in Forced Colors Mode” with @mikeherchel.

mherchel
If you don't have a virtual machine or Windows, I can also walk you through the changes over a zoom call. You'll need to screenshot, update the issue, etc

cindytwilliams
I don’t have a virtual machine or Windows. If you can’t find anyone else who has these to review these issues then I can do it via Zoom.

mherchel
@cindytwilliams Thanks for stepping up! Lets schedule an hour to go over things. When are you available?
We can do a zoom call and go through the various browsers/high contrast themes etc. You'll need a program to do screenshots (I use skitch) , and then you'll need to post to the issue queue. If you're not too familiar with it, I can also help out

cindytwilliams
Okay @mherchel, I can meet Friday or Monday morning between 8am - 11am CST or in the afternoon between 4pm-5pm CST. You can send a Zoom invite to cindy@kanopi.com.

mherchel
Will do! Lets shoot for tomorrow. I'll send you over a calendar invite

mherchel
cc @lauriii and @ckrina :point_up: not sure if you want to join so we can get some of these stable-blocking forced colors issues committed. The time is 3pm CET

cindytwilliams
I was able to get my hands on a Windows machine. I reviewed and took screenshots for this issue: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3130305
You can let me know tomorrow if I’m on the right track, and if so I can keep going on testing these.

ckrina
Sorry I can’t make it today, but could do it Monday 3pm CEST/8amCST

***

Topic 2: [META] Assess Claro’s conformance with WCAG Text spacing, Text resize, and Reflow. https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3087225
0 replies

***

Topic 3: [META] Assess Claro for WCAG colour contrast AA conformance https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3088562
8 replies

rkoller
@ckrina for issues that need just a change of the grey color for example for a title. would it be the correct way to just test if one of the colors available in the greyscale would be suitable (same for bluish colors)? or would a design review mandatory never the less? or would it be the better approach like i've suggested in the other thread if one of the designers checks the issues and gives recommendations which color variant to take and provide clear actionable steps so everyone would be able to fix the issue?

ckrina
I’d say use your best judgement: if it’s a slight change I don’t think we need to block it with a design review, but if it’s a complete change (like from medium gray to completely dark gray) it might be good to add screenshots and ask for review

rkoller
ok i'll give it a try in the devtools first and see if i get anywhere by just exchanging the given color codes with the ones at hand in the new scales. thanks! (edited)

rkoller
out of curiosity. does any grey color used in claro has to be on that scale? cuz i've visited one issue about views right now. and there i've noticed one label which is for example #666. that is a grey not listed on that scale for example

ckrina
ideally any color should come from the defined palettes and using variables, no hell colors :stuck_out_tongue:

rkoller
haha okaaay :D then i think i've spotted one or two "hell" colors ;) will make notes ;)
and by the way. about one of the grey scale colors. #75767B is exactly at the boundary for regular text. meaning against white background it has a color contrast of 4,483:1 . maybe a slightly darker grey for that might been a good choice. otherwise the options for lighter greys for text are quite limited. only the three darker variants work for SC1.4.3 for regular text. with a slightly darker you might have four.

rkoller
and by the way that opens also another topic (nothing to discuss or deal with before stable. but something i've discussed with mike gifford while working through the color contrast and focus visibility issues). many of structural borders in the claro interface dont pass SC1.4.11 (a color contrast of 3:1). that is something not explicitly stated in wcag21 . but for example fieldset border, the border bottoms in content lists for nodes or for example the edit page for a view where you have thin grey borders giving the eye structure and orientation and most of those colors have a contrast ratio of 1,5:1 tops. mostly lighter colors. that way it could be difficult for people orient on a page if these borders disappear for them. but i would keep that topic in my notes and would bring it up after the stable release. cuz i would categorize it as a stable blocker in any way. and since it entails some more design discussions it would be better suited to bring it up on the table for after the stable release in follow ups if you agree?

ckrina 23 hours ago
sorry I just read this. Yeah, if we can leave this as post stable it’d be cool. But feel free to open a meta issue describing the problem

***

Topic 4: [META] Assess conformance with WCAG SC 2.4.7 “Focus Visible” https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3163810
2 replies

dww
Thanks, @rkoller, for adding https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3270230 as a related to the meta. Not exactly sure how that fits in, since it's an existing accessibility bug in toolbar. But it'd be lovely to fix that while doing the final accessibility reviews / signoffs for Claro...

rkoller
@dww np at all. i think due to the upcoming toolbar style update it is necessary to keep it on everybodies radar. it is definitely of relevance for especially the designers for their considerations and design decisions. so setting it to at least related was a more than a reasonable step imho. was only reluctant to set it as child since it isnt a claro issue but a toolbar one. ;)

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Topic 5: Redesign Installer https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3085219
4 replies

andy-blum
working on this now

rkoller
would it make sense to at least also update the issue title. at the moment it states redesign installer but the patch also affects the update.php page. something jwilson3 mentioned in comment #24 and i've overread at first. so i was not aware of the bigger scope of the patch. or maybe it would also make sense to also update the IS as well?

saschaeggi:gitlab:
@rkoller yeah might be a good idea to include update in the title

dww
It's eventually going away once we have autoupdates + project_browser, but does anyone care about a design for the authorize.php page that's part of the current Update Manager workflow when updating a site's missing contrib releases? Should that be included in this issue, or split off as a backlog / someday / maybe never issue?

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Topic 6: Create smaller variations for form elements https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3083256
1 reply

ckrina
This would be a nice to have, would help having proper sizes and smaller forms

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Topic 7: What would be useful to discuss in the BoF at DrupalCon?
9 replies

ckrina
I submitted the BoF and the idea was planning to give people a status overview and tips for how to search for work

ckrina
but not sure if you’d like to have specific discussions for some topics

katannshaw
I think “how do we get Claro over the hump with stable blockers” would be good.

katannshaw
i.e. keeping focus on stable blockers

ckrina
It’s in 2 weeks, and I think by then we might have most of them fixed :crossed_fingers: (edited)

mherchel
I'd like to talk about refactoring some of Claro's CSS (once its stable and default) to make use of a lot of the new PostCSS features in core

mherchel
(and modern CSS features now that IE is :dead: )

ckrina
Ohh, that would be really cool!

ckrina
@mherchel we just need to be sure we @lauriii can’t make it and add decide to add Bootsrap to core

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Topic 8: Steps needed to make Claro the default admin theme
13 replies

ckrina
So something we’d need to start discussing is the redesign for https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3167349

ckrina
Do we really need to go all the way to dark UI, or should we keep a white region? Which would actually mean overriding the default colors for settings tray

ckrina
I would love to go with “all light” in the light theme (including the Toolbar at some point)

ckrina
any thoughts?

rkoller
without mockups hard to tell. but with the current general light claro theme and the dark tray in the old design mix i imagine it difficult at a later point to keep that pattern when redesigning for claro when a dark theme comes in to make complementary choices for the tray?

rkoller
hope that makes sense and is comprehensible what i meant

ckrina
yeah, exactly because of the dark theme: it wouldn’t be cool to have a white region on a dark theme, so why not doing the same for the light version

rkoller
yep i agree. eventhough it might look unusual and odd in the beginning when you got used to a dark colored tray for the light claro theme. but if a dark theme variant is on the roadmap then i definitely agree to give a light tray for claro a try.

ckrina
Gin is doing that with its implementation of the Toolbar and imho it’s the way to go

rkoller
you mean the vertical toolbar setting? the only thing i think in the context of something like a settings tray might be problematic is that the vertical toolbar is an overlay while the tray is on the same level like the rest of the admin page. just visually separated. but style wise definitely a good way to go

saschaeggi:gitlab:
I don’t have hard feelings on either keeping settings tray in a dark mode or to lighten it up :man-shrugging:

ckrina
@rkoller That’s why we defined the different layers & shadows on the design system: meaning they wouldn’t look like the same region: they would be perceived as different working areas

rkoller
@ckrina oh haha well i was never really able to look in depth into the figma file so far. my computer is way way way too old (early 2011) and it is nearly dying after i just start to load the figma page. but i plan to finally order a new one this week so hopefully i will be able to take a more in depth look on it soon :) the few brief times i looked into the design system it was punctual when i compared the figma file with for example a current patch i've tested. thanks for the headsup about the different layers and shadows will definitely check it out soon :)

***

Continue the conversation in Slack. Thank you for showing up and contributing!
If you have additional questions or comments, please post them here or on the meeting agenda issue: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3273704

***

(bonus thread) Topic 9: Next steps for Toolbar + Claro + Accessibility designs for https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907 and https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3020422
5 replies

dww
I have some lingering accessibility concerns with https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907. I guess I need to shepherd those through the #accessibility team to see if the preferred design from the Claro / UX side would actually solve the accessibility concerns.

dww
Timezones really suck for me to participate in most of these things. Anyone else interested / available to help try to move this along? Thanks!

ckrina
Sorry I’ve been trying to read the 2 issues and I’m not sure: what would be the next steps? Do the accessibility review from @saschaeggi’s proposal go first?

dww
I think so. If y’all are happy with @saschaeggi’s designs from the UX side, the key question is if that’s sufficient for the accessibility bug. If so, I’m happy to implement it ASAP and try to get that into toolbar itself. Then that basic approach to the design can be the basis of the wider Claro redesign.

dww
(Which could be happening in parallel with actually landing the toolbar bug fix.)