| pameeela |
I have found another area of low hanging fruit and closed or triaged and bumped up a lot of tickets! |
| pameeela |
if anyone else is interested in this, i can take you through my current strategy... |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I'm curious. Is it too complex to "document" in chat? |
| pameeela |
yeah i think it needs a hangout or something |
| pameeela |
but i mean the short version is that i've been sorting by # of replies |
| pameeela |
and the oldest ones with <5 replies seem to be mostly cannot reproduce, or i get the odd one that is legit that i just clean up the issue summary and a few of these have had some action since then |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Ah, yes, I tend to do the same. Focusing on issues with least replies has been successful for me |
| pameeela |
i guess a big part of it is being able to determine what i can actually triage and what is outside my area |
| pameeela |
i can tell a lot from the issue title now! |
| Michael (g-brodiei) |
I have been able to spend 1~2 hours before work starts on weekdays to contrib back by assigning myself to issues that requires testing. Sure as hell learning a lot along the way thanks to all the mentors with their kindness and patience! |
| larowlan |
59 closed this fortnight, 53 new bugs logged |
| larowlan |
Quite a few committed to 9.1.x awaiting backport too |
| pameeela |
is there any way to use the totals rather than the stats of closed/open? there are quite a few bugs that get converted to support requests or tasks etc, or moved to a contrib queue and i suspect these are not accounted for? |
| larowlan |
this is what I’m using for ‘smashed’ https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search?projects=Drupal%20core&proj... |
| pameeela |
ah yeah that doesn't capture ones that were just moved. i think the only way to account for it would be just the total number of core bugs at the start of each meeting. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
With that tag filter, I see 101 issues needing review, 22 of which are currently listed as ‘Major’ or ‘Critical’ |
| pameeela |
this is an example of a core bug that became a support request and is now closed: [#2603294]so this isn't going toward our stats :disappointed: |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Definitely a good point. Too bad there wasn't an easy way to track the status changes for the bugsmash issues |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
It would look more impressive, for sure (edited) |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Well, you can look at something like https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search?projects=Drupal+core&projec... |
| pameeela |
oh wait actually lee's one doesn't filter for bug report |
| pameeela |
i just noticed that |
| pameeela |
so it does capture ones that were closed. just not ones that were moved and still haven't been closed |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Right, it’s filtering by tag. |
| pameeela |
yeah but most of our searches do filter for bug report, because that is all we are worried about |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
but if you look at mine, it will filter by the tag, but include ones that are open, but not classified as a bug report and you can see what was touched in the last 2 weeks. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I assume the status doesn't use anything fancy like the workflow module that can track state history |
| pameeela |
some of those are long running issues though. so an update in the last 2 weeks doesn't really tell you much |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Ah, right. Check all non bug issues with bugsmash tag |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
no, but it looks like there are only a dozen touched in the last 2 weeks that are tagged as bug smash, but not bug reports, So those could be manually classified. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
You can actually sort by ‘status changed’ too, which will be another point to reference. |
| pameeela |
but there are 7522 open bugs right now against 8/9/10 |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
but that reference the issue status, not category, so it doesn’t tell you that a bug smash ticket was moved to support. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I suppose, if a bug smash tagged ticket is moved out of the bug report category, the the bug smash tag should be removed? |
| pameeela |
haha, we had a WHOLE thing about this. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
ah, sorry. I’m new, lol. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I mean to this initiative, anyway, lol. |
| pameeela |
yeah all good, there was a very long conversation about the use of the tag because everyone was using it differently |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I won’t re-open the debate, but tell me the rule, and I’ll follow it, lol. |
| pameeela |
just had to grab the anchor link: https://www.drupal.org/community-initiatives/drupal-core/bug-smash#issue... |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
So, once tagged, always tagged, and thats fine, we do that at camps and cons, even if the issue isn’t resolved at that camp or con so we can track what was worked on. We can assume that at the time of tagging, an issue is a ‘bug report’, and keep metrics of issues with the tag that are ‘fixed’ or no longer categorized as ‘bug reports’ (edited) |
| pameeela |
yep, exactly! the main rule (which actually isn't specified there) is to only add the tag to something that started as a core bug, regardless of where it ends up |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Right now, there are 902 issues tagged as bug smash. 418 are open, 484 are closed, one way or another. (edited) |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
of the 418 open ones, 50 are not tagged as bug reports any longer. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Which makes 534 smashed bugs as of this meeting. and 368 open ones. (edited) |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I’ll be interested in re-checking those numbers in 2 weeks. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Also, of the 368, 15 are RTBC, Which, for my place, I consider smashed, though @larowlan may disagree with me, :stuck_out_tongue: |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
2 of those 15 are committed to 9.1 and waiting on a backport. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
All of which I mention here only to compare to the numbers in two weeks. |
| pameeela |
haha he definitely will disagree, one of our targets is to triage the RTBC queue to make sure they really are RTBC... cuz lately a lot have gotten through that are really nowhere near. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
https://www.drupal.org/docs/automated-testing |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Not sure of the state of that ^ |
| dww |
I co-maintain the PHPUnit guide right under that:https://www.drupal.org/docs/automated-testing/phpunit-in-drupal |
| dww |
We try to keep that in good shape, but it's hard to make everyone happy. :wink: |
| quietone |
It is a big topic. I'd ask what type of tests do you want to work with (Kernel/functional/javascript etc) and then make sure that your environment can run them and debug them. |
| acbramley |
My go-to is always to look for something existing in another module or core. So say I’m writing a field plugin test, I’ll go to other modules that implement field types, formatters, or widgets and have a look what they’re doing |
| larowlan |
there’s also #testing channel |
| larowlan |
and failing that, asking here for some guidance is fine - happy to point out a similar test example etc |
| dww |
(BTW, basically all of these suggestions are already documented on our initiative page) |
| Michael (g-brodiei) |
I first read the phpunit guide in Drupal, that dww and Kristen showed. Then I spent a week reading through the some simple demos on the phpunit documents.https://phpunit.readthedocs.io/en/9.3/writing-tests-for-phpunit.html#tes... final guide that really helped me wrapping around on how to differentiate what kind of test (e.g. kernal, functional, unit) I should be writing was this thorough three part demo guide https://deninet.com/blog/2018/12/31/writing-automated-tests-drupal-8-par... by socketwench.Then I went through the issues to find one with simple fix (need test) and read through other tests that has already been written to analyse the pattern in the same folder. (edited) |
| dww |
I'm happy to help with Update Manager, Views, datetime*, file, form API, ... I could keep going, but maybe more focus is better. ;) |
| dww |
I also wonder if we should capture the results of this thread on our initiative page... |
| pameeela |
it's up to those who step up i guess, it could open the floodgates to unwanted pings :stuck_out_tongue: |
| dww |
Yeah, but that's the price of volunteering, right? |
| dww |
This thread only seems useful if we're going to do something with it. :wink: |
| Griffyn Heels |
Yeah I'm happy to get these on the initiative page if we get a few experts |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I see 6 of 13 tagged in the migration system that are open and aren’t RTBC or Fixed in the last 2 weeks, I’ll try to hit them up this week. |
| Griffyn Heels |
otherwise you'll get a lot of pings @dww |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Some of those were NR, and I kicked them back to NW recently. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I'm good at testing multilingual issues |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
And pretty much anything through the UI |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
It would be interesting to have a skills matrix to possibly redirect issues as appropriate |
| pameeela |
yeah i can handle pretty much anything that can be tested through the UI. often i need help where either the issue summary isn't clear so i can't follow it, but i think someone more familiar might know, or something that is likely outdated but i can't verify either way. |
| dww |
We've been trying the "targets" list thing. Those seem like big issues with only a few folks on each (if that). Not sure that's helping momentum or participation. |
| dww |
Would regular "office hours" in here help? Different days / TZs throughout the week(s)? |
| dww |
Any kind of "outreach" we can do to the wider community to get more folks interested / involved? |
| Griffyn Heels |
Can we build hype/talk up the initiative in other channels? |
| dww |
Do a campaign to try to get shops to sponsor #BugSmashHours for their employees/contractors ? |
| dww |
E.g. pledging N hours / week / month for their people to contribute to making Drupal better for everyone... |
| quietone |
Do we want people to join to fix the bugs that interest them or the target ones? |
| dww |
Fix any bugs. |
| dww |
Interest, target, random, you name it. :wink: |
| quietone |
I agree, but it changes the dialogue a bit. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
As a subsystem maintainer of a ‘stable’ subsystem (migrate), I confess I haven’t been doing my part here. My typical thing to do is look through the NR queue, and then look at the ‘major’ NW items, and sometimes the bug report category. Tonight is the first time I’ve looked at migration issue tagged with the ‘Bug Smash Initiative’. In general, subsystem maintainers are busy, and responsible for reviews, and may or may not do a lot of actual coding, and I don’t suggest we change that, but I for one wish I’d been filtering the migration queue for this tag to look for things to work on. It might be worth a gentle nudge to those listed in the MAINTAINERS.txt file to check their queue for the tag if they are looking to prioritize. |
| dww |
I intended this thread to be open-ended brainstorm on the related topics. Happy to start new threads for targeted ideas if that's more useful, @quietone |
| dww |
@mikelutz (he/him) All that subsystem maintainer work is super helpful here, too. "actual coding" is a relatively small piece of this effort. Reviews, triage, RTBCing, etc, are all things we highly value, encourage, try to mentor, etc. |
| quietone |
@dww, thanks. No need and I am not up for too much thinking today. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Absolutely. Again, you aren’t going to smash all these issue with subsystem maintainer work alone, by any means. And if they are doing the reviews and such as they should, they will be supporting this initiative. I knew the initiative was happening, but was reminded from seeing so many BSI tags in the issue queue. I guess my point is just that a suggestion to the SS maintainers that this is a good tag to look for in their queue and prioritize (or to start using in bug issues they want to see worked on but maybe can’t get to writing patches for themselves) might be worthwhile. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I’ve moved several issues to RTBC in this initiative just because they were NR in migrate. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I created an initiative survey that was sent to the initiative leads to get ideas about how to increase participation and what type of help is needed. I hope to review and synthesize that info soon depending on health (edited) |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
@dww You have some good ideas above. You got sent the survey if you want to add your thoughts |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I know the mentoring folks used to do office hours. Might be worth checking in on how that went |
| dww |
@Kristen Pol (she/her) Yikes! That email fell through the cracks in my inbox. I just saw it. I'll fill it out. Thanks for the ping! |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
No worries! It's all good |
| dww |
I wonder about getting the DA to post in #announcements about initiative meetings as a way to help publicize them? |
| dww |
Where would we discuss such a thing? I guess @larowlan is also a channel admin? |
| larowlan |
I think they’re pretty staunch about what can be posted in there, security releases and DA official stuff only |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I was thinking we could put the meetings on Drupical but not sure if people use that anymore |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Also, we could promote the initiative meetings via Twitter on a schedule but not sure which account. Maybe @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) has a thought on Twitter promotion? |
| Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I don’t think there is an official account we promote initiative meetings, etc. The goal of dropismoving is to report on progress. At least when we try to involve people we post it following / coupled with report of progress in the area. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Gotcha. Maybe that could be part of the initiative promotion initiative if that happens:) Thanks! (edited) |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I would be interested in leading these sometimes once my back is better |
| larowlan |
I would be interested |
| pameeela |
me too, i feel like we mention it every meeting but it doesn't get traction |
| dww |
I think we could be better about formal action items, getting folks to commit to doing things, have some kind of accountability / check-in / etc. Bi-weekly meetings are nice, but without some active follow-up between meetings, stuff gets mentioned and then dropped. |
| dww |
I'm :100: guilty of all this myself, not blaming anyone... :smile: |
| pameeela |
FWIW we did actually try it twice already, the first time no one showed, the second time it ended up just me and lee on a hangout for an hour - which was great and productive, but... not really the intention |
| pameeela |
perhaps we just need to set it up and communicate the time and just hope people show up! i think i got a bit discouraged by that though |
| dww |
Yeah, I didn't know we had actually done it... |
| dww |
But I could have easily missed something. And I'm not on Twitter or other things. |
| dww |
But some kind of little campaign around it would be good. Maybe a Planet blog post, some Slack announcements, etc. I think we'll want to try some other TZ options, too... |
| pameeela |
yeah we should definitely try to line up at least two options for it |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
We need a Jira or Trello board and a project manager :) |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
I pitched an "initiative promotion" meta community initiative idea to Gabor that he thought might be useful. I should run it by y'all for thoughts |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Let me find my notes |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Ok... here's what I wrote a couple weeks ago:I see the goals of the initiative would be 1) documentation (cleaning up docs and creating new docs so things are easier to find and understand), 2) marketing (spreading the word about the initiatives through blogs, talks, podcasts, slickies, etc.), 3) contributor conversion (figuring out the how to recruit/onboard people more successfully to help with initiatives), and 4) contributor retention (figuring out how to help keep people contributing).It's pretty general but I think there could be specific things to focus on that might help. For example, making session materials similar to what you did for D9 that anyone could use. Or perhaps regularly surveying the initiatives with what they are looking for in terms of contribution help and maybe creating a tool for potential contributors to use or at least some place to document it so people can be matched up.I don't know all the details but that would be the point of creating the initiative... brainstorming for specific ways to help initiative participation and then working on those specific things and seeing if they help. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
@dww @pameeela @larowlan Thoughts on above ^? |
| larowlan |
that sounds worthwhile AND achievable (which can be an elusive combo) - so perhaps we could start by reaching out to some of the podcasts / YT channels and offering guest spots? |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Cool. :) I was going to check in with the mentoring team as well to make sure that this isn't on their radar. If all good, I can make a d.o. project and we can start brainstorming and making tickets :) |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
Also, it needs a name. A recent thought was The Meta Initiative, since it's kind of meta ;) Open to name suggestions! |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I would like to mention this to my employer, I think I’ll get a little traction. If you think about it, ask me in a day or two how it went, I’ll either have a great answer, or remember I need to do it. |
| dww |
Righto! I'm extremely happy to report that I started contracting for TEN7, and they're allocating a few hours of my time each week to self-directed upstream contribution. This is allowing me to actually make some progress on Update Manager issues that I'd otherwise never find a way to get someone to sponsor work on. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I’m fortunate to get a few hours a week to contribute myself, but Four Kitchens supports everybody contributing upstream, and not everybody knows where to start. I’ve done a few things to help, but this initiative is another place I can point people to to get started, and its been a few months since I’ve pushed, so we need a bit of a refresher. |
| larowlan |
I tried this with #patchaday once https://www.previousnext.com.au/blog/drupal-8-patch-day-challenge - look at the date of that post. I kept it up until 8.0.0 came out, something like 2 years. But I was alone unfortunately. Regadless I think its a great idea. |
| pameeela |
i haven't done the 'every day' commitment but i have the issue queue open in a tab all the time and when i'm frustrated or annoyed with work i just switch over to that for 20 mins or so, it's a nice distraction! |
| dww |
Hah, nice! ;) |
| larowlan |
same here, but its rtbc bugs in my tab |
| Michael (g-brodiei) |
Haha, I have the same thing, I have the issue tab I'm working on pinned to my browser, so everyday when I open the browser, I'll remember that I have to spend some time on it to finish this as a goal. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) |
So... many... tabs... |
| Michael (g-brodiei) |
Yeah, it's tab mania~~ |
| pameeela |
can you explain this a bit more? do you just mean getting a line added to say it exists and where to find us? |
| dww |
@mikelutz (he/him) and I were discussing this in the original 8️⃣ thread... |
| pameeela |
ah ok |
| dww |
I opened this to see if anyone was willing to systematically do it, either via contact tab, Slack pings, other social contact, etc. |
| pameeela |
oh! sorry i get it now |
| pameeela |
i wonder if @mikelutz (he/him) can suggest how to go about that? like what message do you wish you had heard sooner? |
| pameeela |
i'm happy to do it, just not too sure what specifically to say! |
| lendude |
Also, I’m not sure if MAINTAINERS.txt is the most reliable source, it’s not always that up to date with active contributers. I think we did a clean up a while ago but :shrug:And to be honest, I wouldn’t know what resource would be more reliable. |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I’m not much of a writer, but basically I was thinking of something along the lines of hey, you may have seen this tag in your subsystem issues, here’s what it is, what we are trying to do, and if you have contributors in your subsystem wondering what to work on, issues tagged with this would be a great place to start and prioritize. |
| pameeela |
might be something to add to the agenda to the various initiative catch ups, as those are likely to be more active than maintainers anyway |
| dww |
Yeah, I know there's a "cross initiative meeting" but it's always at zero o'clock in the morning for me. Probably even worse for y'all in Aus/NZ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| pameeela |
yep 1am! |
| pameeela |
was going to ask if anyone in this chat ever attends it |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
I do usually |
| pameeela |
oh! amazing. would you be willing to give us a shoutout? basically spread the message that you suggested, to look out for the tag etc. |
| pameeela |
there is one coming up later this week |
| mikelutz (he/him) |
Yeah, I will pass long as it happens. They are sometimes cancelled last minute if no one has anything to report. |
| larowlan |
I think perhaps we let each person put one item on the list instead of going by ‘the ten oldest majors’ |
| larowlan |
because some of those issues are just plain hard |
| dww |
It'd be like when you went to a record store and they had a little display with "staff picks". :wink: |
| larowlan |
that reference would be lost in a javascript community :older_man: :older_woman: :dinosaur: :joy: |
| lendude |
Yeah I like the idea of the 10 oldest majors, but I think the ones we want to put effort in are the ones that are old because of ‘fallen of the radar’, not because of ‘this is too hard/niche/obscure’ |
| jonathanjfshaw |
I'm wondering about a BugSmashTarget tag. Triaged as not outdated, not too hard, has steps to reproduce, has some kind of partial progress, has been recently inactive, is not blocked on needing expert review. Then when people want issues to work on, there's a pool to draw from. |
| partyka |
I like this idea, especially since I’m still very new to core contributing. |
larowlan, mikelutz (he/him), Kristen Pol, Griffyn Heels, pameeela, quietone, Bob McDonald (ultrabob) he/him, kim.pepper, dww, Ridhima Abrol, jungle, acbramley, hansa11, Michael (g-brodiei), lendude, Paulo Henrique Cota Starling, partyka, Gábor Hojtsy, jonathanjfshaw
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