Meeting - Getting Involved Guide - 3 December 2019

This meeting is on 3 December 2019 at **16:00 UTC** in the #documentation channel on Drupal Slack. This meeting is text-only, no audio or video, and is asynchronous so everyone can join in as they're available for about 24 hours. After that we'll capture notes from the threads.

Agenda - please feel free to edit this to add items!

Hello and welcome to the Drupal Getting Involved Guide Refresh Meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Usually happens on alternate Tuesdays
➤ is text only!
➤ happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ has a public agenda issue anyone can add to.
➤ :star: Meeting transcripts are still a work in progress, but please comment on the meeting agenda issue so we can grant you credit for attending/contributing!

:zero: *Roll Call!*
Who’s here today? Comment in the thread below if you’d like to introduce yourself and share the last public firework display you attended...

:one: *I'm back in the office finally!*: After DrupalCon, I was otherwise engaged somewhat and difficult to do any actual work (okay, I was on vacation in India!). Now, let's get going again...

:two: *This isn’t just about rebuilding what we had before*: So, I have raised an issue around the Getting Involved Guide being a location to store and "advertise" all the roles that make the community - please take a look at https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3089403.

:three: *Some people worked on creating a list of all the roles in our community*: - are we getting a good list?? See https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3091381

:four: *Anything Else?*: What else do we need to talk about?

That’s all for now!

The discussions continue in the threads! Please feel free to chime in within the next 24 hours to be captured in the meeting notes. Thank you very much to everyone for attending, learning, and contributing!

Meeting Transcript

Rachel Lawson Yesterday at 16:00
:zero: *Roll Call!*
Who’s here today? Comment in the thread below if you’d like to introduce yourself and share the last public firework display you attended...

3 replies

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
Rachel, UK - and it looks like I forgot to change the firework thing from the last meeting!! Still, I did see some fireworks in India!

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
Fun! Jennifer here from USA. No recent fireworks. Had a nice Thanksgiving holiday in Oregon at my sister's though last week.

mradcliffe:redpanda:  19 hours ago
Matthew here, USA. No recent fireworks :sadparrot:





Rachel Lawson Yesterday at 16:03
:one: *I’m back in the office finally!*: After DrupalCon, I was otherwise engaged somewhat and difficult to do any actual work (okay, I was also on vacation in India!).

3 replies

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
But I’m back now and can actually spend time on this! yay! (edited) 

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
yay!

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
Talking of which, it seems to work well when we can “declare” time we can dedicate. So, in that spirit, I plan to work Friday morning UK time and Friday afternoon, 1700UTC to 1800UTC and will be online on this subject then





Rachel Lawson Yesterday at 16:05
:two: *This isn’t just about rebuilding what we had before*: So, I have raised an issue around the Getting Involved Guide being a location to store and “advertise” all the roles that make the community - please take a look at https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3089403.

51 replies

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
The test environment we created does indeed seem to make sense and thanks @jhodgdon (she/her) for what you built so far! I like how we worked together to fine tune it.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
There is a list of known issues and To Dos in the issue summary there. I propose that I spend some time this week trying to fix those issues, and that we have a working meeting next week at this time to discuss what still needs to be done.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
i.e. meeting one week from today at this same time

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
I also hear that some people, including @kay_v, have been looking at a new version of DrupalLadder. If they were to build something along those lines, I think maybe having the tasks defined in this new model means they could easily “suck in” actual content via a drupal.org api call, yes?

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
probably?

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
yes - that sounds good, Jennifer (what you were saying about coworking) (edited) 

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
ok let's do that then. I'll carve out time this week and we'll confer with whoever is interested, such as @mradcliffe, probably via Zoom, next week at this time.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
perfect! If it is useful to add that time to the core calendar, let me know and I can add it

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
No downside! Let's add it.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
okay - let me know the times and I will add them. Ongoing repeated or just one-off?

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
one-off, next week, Dec 10, at the same time as this meeting

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
on Zoom (if you can set up a zoom?)

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
okay - I’ll add that

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
perfect

mradcliffe:redpanda:  19 hours ago
I half-finished a draft of skills and roles related to mentors, and I want to try to finish that and post it to see if I'm on the right track

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
oh nice one!!

mradcliffe:redpanda:  19 hours ago
I have some literal plumbing to do wednesday this week, but I want to get something done by then.
:spanner:
1


Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
I suggest putting them somewhere safer than the dev site, which could go away. I mean, great to add them to the dev site, but also save the content somewhere else. :)

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
Agreed

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
But I’m certainly not opposed to copying them into dev

mradcliffe:redpanda:  19 hours ago
Currently in a markdown file :slightly_smiling_face:

Rachel Lawson  18 hours ago
markdown++

Kay VanValkenburgh  17 hours ago
thanks for the productive chat, @rachel_norfolk, regarding community needs and DrupalLadder 2.0. Exciting to hear how many ways there appears to be a spot-on match
:partyparrot:
1


Rachel Lawson  17 hours ago
Yes - so many exciting things happening!

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
commented with more detail https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3089403#comment-13376822

Jennifer Hodgdon  16 hours ago
@kay_v That comment didn't really illuminate much for me... hoping for more details coming soon. I'm unclear on how Drupal Ladder 2.0 would complement the new Getting Involved Guide (maybe link to specific tasks as part of the ladder? hopefully not duplicate the content)

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
Hi @jhodgdon (she/her) - agreed that duplicating content is very undesirable. There is not content currently in place that can help answer your question. It’s more about common feature sets and a shared purpose.

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
Let me know when you’d have 15 min for a screenshare? It’d be good to sync up sooner vs waiting for stuff to be ‘done’ and then connecting. (edited) 

mradcliffe:redpanda:  16 hours ago
Drupal ladder is more of a Drupal pyramid or a drupal torus.

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
hehe - or some people like to say ‘drupal chutes and ladders’ @mradcliffe

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
however, I think your notion of a pyramid might change significantly once you get a demo

Kay VanValkenburgh  16 hours ago
atm judgements are likely based on an unprinted book cover (to adapt an old saw about the wisdom of seeing the insides in the process of making assessments :slightly_smiling_face: )

Rachel Lawson  16 hours ago
FYI, I can see ways that a tool like drupalladder could consume GIG content and represent it to a wider audience. No duplication of effort.

mradcliffe:redpanda:  16 hours ago
@kay_v pyramid came to me after some discussion walking at night in Amsterdam about explaining how we all start from different places and may end up at different new places on our Drupal journey as we learn Drupal.

Rachel Lawson  16 hours ago
The idea that drupallader could copy GIG content via the Drupal.org content apis and then present it to an even wider audience in new and exciting ways certainly intrigued me. I’m especially interested in it being available offline.

Kay VanValkenburgh  15 hours ago
@mradcliffe ah! :slightly_smiling_face: agreed we all end up in very different places than we’d expected! (the bit of me that advocates anti-hierarchical collaboration models got confused by the pyramid metaphor). The Drupal ladder objective is to put people on efficient paths that leverage their existing skills and offer some efficiencies in describing and adopting new ones. (Still a vague description, but maybe matching up with what you were observing?)

Jennifer Hodgdon  15 hours ago
@kay_v Maybe you can put something onto the issue? Screensharing with me or with @rachel_norfolk is good, but if the main themes don't get into the issue, they don't get preserved.

Kay VanValkenburgh  15 hours ago
hi @jhodgdon (she/her) - yes: capturing main themes in the issue for everyone’s understanding and comment is definitely the most useful way of merging efforts. I will put some there. Since I still need to read and digest the info that is in the various threads, I imagine I will not necessarily capture the salient details in my next comment. The screenshare with @rachel_norfolk was a hugely useful shortcut. If someone is available for another quick screenshare in the next several days, doing so is likely to help further identify the ‘low hanging fruit’ to help the DL effort make appropriate adjustments to our ongoing plans (20 dev hrs booked for tomorrow on it).

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
Sounds good. I may have some time later today, or tomorrow morning (US/Pacific) would also work. What time zone/availability do you have?

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
Sounds great - thanks for offering. A quick chat should help hone in further on whether “there’s a there there” to combining the efforts :slightly_smiling_face:. I’m in Boston. How’s tomorrow at 2pm Pacific, 5pm Eastern? (I’m flexible 3-5:30 Eastern if a different time is better). (edited) 

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
@jhodgdon (she/her) ^

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
I am not available tomorrow at 2pm. Earlier in the day would work. Or maybe now?

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
@kay_v ^^

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
sure - now works.

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
ok!

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
@jhodgdon (she/her) can we use Slack for a screenshare?

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
I don't know, does that work?

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
unsure. shall we jsut jump to hangouts or skype?

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
We are in a public thread, I wouldn't post my email address. :) I will get you on Hangouts shortly

Kay VanValkenburgh  14 hours ago
heh. yeah. deleting once you’ve grabbed mine

Jennifer Hodgdon  14 hours ago
I have it
:+1:
1






Rachel Lawson Yesterday at 16:09
:three: *Some people worked on creating a list of all the roles in our community*: - are we getting a good list?? See https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3091381

21 replies

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
I intend to do some tidying on this list and then open it up to more people to add content

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
It seems like a good start. I think once we have a tool to create/edit those on drupal.org, we can add more. The skills and tasks will also be able to be more filled-out than they would be in that spreadsheet.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
I don't really favor trying to use spreadsheets to define content that should be more complex.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
agreed. It helps us make a start on the list of tasks and the list of roles and skills but not the actual content of them - that’s why we have Drupal!

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
yup

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
It’s funny how we are finally using drupal.org to do what drupal is really good at - modelling

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
yup.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
I may even pop a talk into minneapolis in the morning

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
not the first time. We actually did something similar with the change notices content type for Drupal core

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
ah! Very good point

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
and for that matter, issues, although their fields are in code.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
and projects

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
all the project/issue stuff

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
(And now I am embarrassed I don’t read change notices often enough!)

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
if you are not a core developer, you should not read change notices... :)

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
well, contrib developers too.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
mostly they are not so great for end-users.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
or custom developers

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
yeah

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
anyway.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
true - we know how to treat this list, which is what matters






Rachel Lawson Yesterday at 16:14
:four: *Anything Else?*: What else do we need to talk about?

22 replies

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
Sometime we need to get back to the other issues, such as https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3072788

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
Yeah - I must admit to not being sure what to do about that, or when is the right time. Choosing tools is easier when you have real data to process

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
Have not seen mdstamm here for a while...

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
good point - either in the meeting or even outside

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
Also can we mark https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3077474 as fixed?

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
Just looking at the list of open issues for Getting Involved, which is at https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/drupal_org_community?text=&status=Open&priorities=All&categories=All&version=All&component=Getting+Involved+Guide

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
There aren't many. Those two stand out.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
(plus the two we already discussed)

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
that one can’t be marked fixed as I need to find a sensible way to add it to the global nav. Let me take a look this week.

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
OK sounds good.

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
(and I do want to revisit /community to work on some feedback)

Rachel Lawson  19 hours ago
(the main feedback being that each section is way too long)

Jennifer Hodgdon  19 hours ago
great, thanks!

mradcliffe:redpanda:  19 hours ago
Thanks for the ping. I had 2 things going on this morning and I forgot about the meeting even after the reminder earlier.

Melissa Stamm  13 hours ago
Hi all, so sorry I’ve been MIA. New job, serving on the DrupalCon program committee, etc, I just haven’t had time to revisit this yet. Re tools, I also am not clear on how  or when to proceed. Personally, I think a tool like Vale or whatever should not be required for all people wishing to contribute to the guide (or documentation in general) - something like Vale seems more suitable for use by a central editor/editorial team responsible for proofing content before publishing (or even after publishing). Many of the other online tools/browser extensions (e.g., grammar/spelling checkers) seem more accessible and could be helpful for people writing content. But not knowing how your publishing process works, I don’t think I have an answer to this.

Melissa Stamm  13 hours ago
btw, I’m almost always logged in even if not monitoring the channel, so please @ mention me if I can help.

Jennifer Hodgdon  13 hours ago
Hey @Melissa Stamm! Good to hear from you. It looks like we're going to be publishing the content for the Getting Involved guide as pages of probably 4 content types on drupal.org.

Jennifer Hodgdon  13 hours ago
we've been working on that on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal_org_community/issues/3089403

Jennifer Hodgdon  13 hours ago
So someone who is creating one of the pages for Getting Involved would go to d.o/node/add/[type], fill in the fields, and save the content, just as they would for creating other drupal.org docs.

Jennifer Hodgdon  13 hours ago
The main difference between these pages and other drupal docs is that there are a number of fields instead of it just being title/body.

Melissa Stamm  12 hours ago
Hmm, ok so can anyone with a d.o account can add/edit these pages? Or just a select group of people granted specific permissions?

Jennifer Hodgdon  10 hours ago
I think we'll probably make them "everyone can edit/add", like other d.o docs pages.