[rules] Rules

Adding some info about what help is needed.

Adding some timing information based on talking to dasjo. Sounds like if the Milestone 2 funding were achieved, this module could be mostly done (at an "MVP" level at least) in about 3 months.

yay, M2 is planned for March
http://d8rules.org/news/drupal-8-rules-m2-march-2016

Bumping to major, should be considered for critical?

rules 8.x-3.0-alpha1 has been released - this is a preview release and is not intended for production sites. Use at your own risk
https://www.drupal.org/node/2682821

See https://www.drupal.org/project/rules/releases/8.x-3.0-alpha2

The 8.x-3.0-alpha2 release can't even be installed:
Fatal error: Class Drupal\rules\Ui\RulesUiDefinition contains 2 abstract methods and must therefore be declared abstract or implement the remaining methods (Drupal\Component\Plugin\Definition\PluginDefinitionInterface::id, Drupal\Component\Plugin\Definition\PluginDefinitionInterface::getProvider) in /home/rcbf7/www/sites/default/modules/rules/src/Ui/RulesUiDefinition.php on line 146

Any estimation on when there will be a sort of stable release for rules?

@LaurensV Use the issue queue of Rules for reporting these things, they are to be expected with alpha releases. You'll may find possible workarounds there as well.
This issue is about the port, not for issues with a release.

See alpha3

Just noting here that Rules not being D8-ready yet is coming up repeatedly in an informal survey on what's blocking people from adopting Drupal 8.

So it seems like for the health of the ecosystem, we need some sort of solution here. Here's my best understanding of the current situation:

• The latest release of Rules is 8.x-3.0-alpha3. Here's the list of the outstanding beta blockers (16).
• The lead developers, fago and klausi, are asking for funding at http://d8rules.org/ to free their time to work more on this module.
• Trying the module out on Simplytest.me just now, I see there's a UI there with various elements: reactions, components, a list of system events to trigger on, some support for dynamic properties, etc. I did not successfully create a Rule that seemed to do anything, but that might just be my inexperience with Rules. :D
• In terms of alternatives: custom code, which is guess is what most people are doing. There's nothing Rules can do that PHP in a hook/event can't do. But, this presents a pretty steep barrier to site builders, as well as developers new to Drupal 8.

Anything I missed?

One thing to note, and this might reduce the demand if it were more known by the community. Commerce does not depend on rules. That was the biggest reason folks used it on d7

That was the biggest reason folks used it on d7

@heddn: I see were you are coming from and it is good info to know about the uncoupling of Rules and Commerce. Thanks for taking the time to report this. But I would like to add: Rules was always a part of the default contrib module stack on any project we were involved in from what I know. It was the way-to-go for triggering events and make the project more dynamic regarding user interactions and work arounds in indivdual cases. I would rather raise it up to an important one, tbh.

But, this presents a pretty steep barrier to site builders, as well as developers new to Drupal 8.

@webchick: I agree on this but I would like to include that even for advanced developers it can become a fast prototyping tool like panel is for those who prefer to rather write template preprocess functions and template files than to use panels everywhere.

I will participate on http://d8rules.org/ and will invite others to follow.

Another reason for us to use rules: Code cost is known to be gut feeling times π. While programmers themselves use to underrate this (me as programmer including), the hidden obstacles of a rules solution are often smaller than that of custom code. So for leads (me as project lead including) this is quite often a strong point to have rules.

Also it's often that we see capacities for rules-knowing sitebuilders but not for programmers.

In fact for these reasons there is a relevant class of simple-but-not-trivial sites that we prefer D7 for, due to lack of D8 rules.

Added a comment to discuss progress during Drupalcon Vienna:
https://www.drupal.org/node/2245015#comment-12264419

hello, if i install rules in alpha version 3. Should I reinstall it when it is stable or just update it ?

@zenimagine this issue tracks progress on porting rules to D8. For support requests, please use the module's issue queue or Drupal Answers.

Hi, do you have an approximate date for release of the beta version ? Thank you

Can we have a standard port issue to set as "related" in other issues?

This Rule module has a direct conflict with Simplenews module. Simplenews block disappear.
This only happens when installed Rules by composer so I don't know if can be related with some dependencies.

@ferrete This issue is only for the D8 upgrade process.
Please open a separate issue for your problem at this place: https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/rules

HI

Im just wondering if Rules is still in development, or has this project gone idle?

I notice the github repo hasnt had any updates in a long time.

The website - http://d8rules.org/ - has expired.

This issue, and https://www.drupal.org/project/rules/issues/2245015 havent had any updates in a long time.

And the D8 release has been on alpha for a long time.

Its a really impressive and powerful module so I really it can get finished.

I wouldn't say that there is no progress and the roadmap issue states clearly that you can use the project and that there will be no harsh API changes breaking your side up to the next final release. To be honest we use Rules already for some simple actions and it works without flaws until now. +1 to all who worked on this.

If there'll be no significant API changes, this should be a beta not an alpha.

Thanks for the prompt update.

Yes, from the progress track it does appear that a lot has been accomplished.

I cant speak for the stability, but, yes, perhaps its time to move from alpha to beta?

Im just wondering if Rules is still in development, or has this project gone idle

Seriously? You can't tell the difference between one of the MOST active, BEST maintained projects on drupal.org and an "idle" project? I don't need this crap.

@mmjvb: Well if you want to keep this issue open maybe then YOU should be keeping this information up-to-date; I'm not going to do that because this issue is not helping or contributing anything to the Rules project - just the opposite.

Seriously? You can't tell the difference between one of the MOST active, BEST maintained projects on drupal.org and an "idle" project?

Hi TR

Apologies, I dont mean to sound like to I'm criticizing you or your work. Youre right, I should probably have compared this project with others on Drupal.org.

My question comes from seeing the website for rules has gone, the github repo hasnt had any updates for this year, and that its still in alpha.

Perhaps theres good explanations for these - maybe the source code is hosted elsewhere. Maybe the site is temporarily down. I dont know.

@magick93:

Thanks for coming back and apologizing. That's not very often and rarely the usual way such discussions go. So I think this will be appreciated. But let me briefly explain why this has raised an "eye brow" here: Issue queues and the way how they behave and where thinks are placed can be somewhat cluttered and hard to follow for visitors and users who try to find their modules they use (like ported for D8) sometimes. And then users click on the links of the project page landing here to complain about the Alpha or Beta porting status, etc. Which was actually intended to help users to know better about the porting but does not always has this positive effect. That's why not all maintainers are big fans of this "special" issues for the porting status, since sometimes things become difficult and hard to describe in such special issues. I have mixed feelings, but I already suggested to maybe leave this issues informal only (no ability to comment if you are not a maintainer). That would may be best of both worlds. I don't know...

Apart from that you may have overlooked some things listed on different places regarding Rules? @TR has been involved in over 100 fixes for Rules just in the last time. And the big list of tasks listed over there on the roadmap for the porting are about 80% fixed! Which is unbelievably heavy regarding the amount what had to be done. And the documentation pages of Rules have grown massively. I wonder a lil bit that you didn't realized. Look at TRs profile and you will see over 500 documentation edits listed. And these are just examples I have picked randomly now from a glimpse, since most of the hard work is not listed anywhere.

So you may understand that it can become frustrating for maintainers to get pinged when somebody comes in on porting tracker issues and asks "is this project dead"? Especially if not. Which is like "slapping" active maintainers or co-maintainers directly into the face. We often had long meetings on D.O. regarding maintainer "burn-out" and emotional impact on issue discussions and we all try our best to keep calm as long as possible. But sometimes it does not work out well. And we shouldn't forget that this is a hard time for most of us at the moment in this global lock down. I remember my burn out after 300 issues cleaning for the link module to get into D8 core and I was far less patient than TR.

HI diqidoq

...it can become frustrating for maintainers to get pinged when somebody comes in on porting tracker issues and asks "is this project dead"? Especially if not. Which is like "slapping" active maintainers or co-maintainers directly into the face. We often had long meetings on D.O. regarding maintainer "burn-out" and emotional impact on issue discussions and we all try our best to keep calm as long as possible. But sometimes it does not work out well. And we shouldn't forget that this is a hard time for most of us at the moment in this global lock down.

Yes, you're absolutely right!

I did have a look at some issue queues and read some of the discussions, and can clearly see the massive amount of work that has been done.

I suppose my question arises from seeing the amount of work that has been done, and the length this project has been running, and yet the releases are still in alpha.

But, yes, you raise a very important point regarding the lock down and pandemic - and it probably was rather deaf - and clumsy - to write in the manner I did, and not factor this in.

Updated the issue summary according current situation. Especially added information of the work of TR, fixed link to d.o git repo, and removed links to d8rules.org.

What's still missing in the issue summary is more information on "What help do they need?" because I cannot answer. Because this project is so complex we maybe need a new initiative to fund something. But money alone won't fix code. So the old d8rules initiative was not only collecting money. There was a mix of code power, project management, and fundraising activity. When we see the current work n this huge project we have to thank everybody of the old initiative and have to thank the sponsors of it. So I believe we need people to step in on the non code part of this project to help TR also beside code testing and writing.

@C_Logemann: +1

Because this project is so complex we maybe need a new initiative....

So I believe we need people to step in on the non code part of this project

Ok, then ... let's do it. - MAROQQO digital media is willing to sponsor a web campaign and a new homepage for the project (alternative to d8rules.org) including a backend for others to chime in for docs and HowTos, tasks, discussions, etc. and we will let some folks here in the team allow to work on this project in company time. But we surely need more. Anyone?

But please let us not make this project donationware. I've seen this on other projects here on D.O. and it will surely die, if we lock that down on donation. Until the proposed donation limit is reached, we are already on Drupal 10!

I believe in Rules personally, that's why I am willing to give and make that offer. Feel free to follow.

The domain we provide is drul.es | Drupal + Rules = Drules power (more is coming ...)

🤩!

I can't give much bandwidth, but count me in with what i can give!

I cant give a lot of time, but can put a bit of time into docs.

I can help in docs, thing is English is not my first language.

Warm regards from sunny México.

José

+1 @all of you. Awesome. Please register over there so we can get all notified to each other. I'll try to put sth up there in the backend that makes any sense and we need a workflow preventing that nothing is done twice or lost in translation and that all work will get back into the project in the best and fastest way. Let me know over there what works best for you.

@TR has been a rockstar.

Seriously, the amount of brute force effort he's put into Rules is astonishing.

I'm happy to pitch in what I can, as the Rules module is pivotal to the sites I build/maintain. I know I'm not alone.

Glad to hear about so many who want to help. So please chime over to drul.es and register to create a user base showing the community the amount of interest and let's not highjack this issue where we actually should only come back with something useful for the project to inform about. Greetings @ all and please stay safe!

Sorry for the noise but I need to point out that I can only accept registrations of users on http://drul.es who use the same user name and mail credentials like on drupal.org and that it would be helpful if people can post here that they have registererd so that I can be sure that we do not accept spam accounts.

Hi, I registered at drul.es as "dercheffe" :)