Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 16 August 2021 [#3226358]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3226358`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

xjm	:wave: xjm, core release manager
shaal	:blob_wave: Ofer Shaal, umami, DrupalPod
mikelutz (he/him)	Hey all
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Gábor, Drupal 10 coordinator :slightly_smiling_face:
catch	Nat, core committer.
larowlan	lee, purveyor of igneous rocks that look like world leaders
xjm	Ooh, do you happen to have one of Justin Trudeau?
larowlan	no, they're really popular, he's such a heartthrob
xjm	Drat, missed my chance
dww	Derek, US, only partly here
kimb0	Kim, AU - late as usual
bircher	Hi, very late
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, very very late

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

Kristen Pol (she/her)

For next time, status of porting projects from D8 to D9

2️⃣ Looking for maintainers for QuickEdit module in contrib (edited)

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There is an agreement to remove QuickEdit from core in Drupal 10
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	It is already removed from the standard profile and Umami in 9.3.x.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	We do need one or more maintainers to sign up to carry the torch in contrib. That could mean making it better but what it minimally means is making sure security coverage is provided.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	So you would not be signing up for implementing what it could/should have been (although in a new branch, that would be possible), but rather to keep it alive for a while for people who still want to use it with Drupal 10.
larowlan	:tumbleweed:
dww	:cricket: :wink:Seriously though, it seems this is a very small audience of over-worked / over-committed folks to be trying to recruit from. Can we cast a much wider net by other means? Spam the larger Slack channels about it? Include something in a forthcoming newsletter or some such? Ask folks with social media audiences to post about it?Is there already a reasonable place to point all such recruitment efforts at? I know this is a bullet point in the 'deprecate quickedit' issue, but is there a dedicated 'move quickedit to contrib' issue we can use, instead?
bircher	Yes ideally we would find someone that actually uses it, the crowd here seems to be very much on board with moving it so probably not using it.
FeyP	Very good idea. The no. 1 way I always found out about the progress regarding the migration from D8 => D9 was via Gábor's blog posts on Planet Drupal, for example. Unfortunately, by the time the DrupalCon tickets were offered for new Drupal 9 ports I had already ported my modules, so no chance winning one of those for me :wink:Might be worth to try that first, should be quick to do. If needed, that could be expanded to other channels that would require more coordination later (like newsletter and social media).
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	This thread was definitely not the last attempt to find maintainers unless it works ;)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I thought there was already a tweet but couldn't find it so I sent this: Kristen Pol (@kristen_pol) Tweeted:The Quick Edit module will be removed from #drupal 10 and moved to a contributed module. It needs a maintainer who will minimally handle security issues. If interested, let someone on the Drupal 10 Readiness team know or add a comment on the issue.https://t.co/xFah9pHDWP https://twitter.com/kristen_pol/status/1427694249785511940?s=20
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://twitter.com/DropIsMoving/status/1430444640491110404?s=19

3️⃣ CKEditor 5 is getting closer to inclusion in core

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	See roadmap at #3201824: Roadmap to core
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	beta is very close :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thus preparation for core inclusion is happening at #3227826: Preparation for moving CKEditor 5 to core where the sub-issues could use help
larowlan	how should we help with reviews
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@larowlan IMHO best would be to port ckeditor plugin modules to ck5, that should help validate the and turn up various issues
Kristen Pol (she/her)	https://twitter.com/kristen_pol/status/1427699461078216705?s=20

4️⃣ Olivero progressing towards stable

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	We had a meeting with a number of committers last week including @xjm, @catch, @webchick and @lauriii. @mherchel’s goal is still to get it in by 9.3.x and make it the default, but help is needed to make that happen. A lot of things need to align for that to work out :slightly_smiling_face: (maybe pun intended)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3177296: [META] Make Olivero stable is the META issue
xjm	A number of should-have issues have been added to the roadmap (thanks @mherchel!) and those are a great place to step up and help if you are interested in this being the default theme of D10
mherchel	Note that @lauriii @bnjmnm @Andy and I have a mini-sprint tomorrow. So hopefully we can get a number of these RTBC issues committed :muscle:
larowlan	there's a Drupal South sprint on Friday this week, perhaps anything open from your sprint can be handed over
Kristen Pol (she/her)	https://twitter.com/kristen_pol/status/1427696128267411456?s=20

5️⃣ Minimal PHP version for Drupal 10 needs supporting data

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	We will definitely require at least PHP 8 in Drupal 10.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	However help is needed to gather data at #3223435: Track PHP 8.1 support in hosting and distributions for our timeline of requiring PHP 8.1.
xjm	TLDR while we would like to require PHP 8.1 for both reasons of longer support relative to Symfony 6 and some great new language features, we also need the majority of the PHP ecosystem to have adopted whatever minimum PHP version D10 has by D9's EOL in Nov. 2023.
xjm	So data like we have had in the past from Composer, builtwith, hosting providers, etc. will help us make that decision. We already have good info on the distro support part.
larowlan	+1 for requiring 8 and recommending 8.1
bircher	I would go for 8.1 or at least have a clear and communicated plan to require 8.1 in Drupal 10.2 for example.For me the question is: should we require a php version most people already have when 10.0.0 ships or should we require a php version most people will have when 9.x.y will be EOL?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@bircher would you say PHP 8.1 is “most people will have when 9.x.y will be EOL”? How do you tell that?
bircher	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) I don't know that. I am hoping/guessing that this could be the case. For that we still need the data and probably some estimated guess and a deep look into the crystal ball.Though the question I asked is more along the lines of what we are aiming for, because 10.0.0 out and 9 EOL are different dates, so what do we deem sufficient adoption might change between the two
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@bircher For myself, I would like to avoid people getting into an impossible place if Drupal 10 requires too high a PHP version and Drupal 9 is (close) to EOL
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Pre-announcing a later raise of PHP requirement and recommending 8.1 rather than requiring would give us some space to adjust if needed if PHP 8.1 adoption is not there.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	It does not seem like PHP 8 adoption is going to well from what I’ve seen.
bircher	that is true, but I don't think we can compare 8.0 and 8.1 adoption
bircher	since php 8 is going to be required anyway we might as well go for 8.1 is what I wanted to say
bircher	I think 8.1 will be adopted faster relative to 8.0