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By MKPinfo on
I'm doing some rough estimates for project fundraising purposes for a nonprofit organization that I work for. I do have a couple of the project phases estimated in hours by a consultant experienced in Drupal, php, MySQL, html, CSS, PDG Commerce etc etc, it would help me very much if I had some sort of standard or average hourly rate to attach to these estimates.
I'm creating fundraising presentations for the organization and I could really use some help in simply attaching some base-line figures to these project phases. There may be some customization of modules needed and possibly custom modules created. Events Calendar and Google Maps API, linking workshops to shopping carts. There is i18n and l10n work, a little design work (most of the design work is completed) and integration with other parts and pieces like PDG Commerce, QuickBooks and Salesforce. There will be 'external', independent of the Drupal site, local sub-community WordPress sites used as front doors that we'll need to build login APIs for, and eventual construction of a document files library and online forms submission stuff.
I don't imagine it's a simple project, by any means, and I'm basically an admininstrator being tasked with some project management and oversight, but this fish is gasping for air on dry land.
Our current Drupal installation is 5.0 on an AMP stack, and we're nearly done with a phase one that launches our first new site in like 10 years (an ugly static html beast) with a new appearance and front content without all the integrated registration/payment systems. BUT, I'm hoping we'll upgrade to 6.0 before the registration/payment phase begins. So I may have to add estimated hours for that upgrade to these project phases. Most of my self-education reading is books on 6.0 (Using Drupal, Front End Drupal) and I'm hoping that I'll eventually be able to help with some of the content creation.
The "Phase 2" integrated registration/payment described above contains the parts with events calendar and extends through the i18n/l10n to the PDG Commerce/Quickbooks integration. My guy, who I trust explicitly has estimated 170 hours for that phase, as described here:
10hrs - Decision making, requirements gathering
60hrs - Generic internationalized event registration system w/ workshop focus; includes ability to manually add registrations with or without payment; includes ability to pay deposit, in full or a partial amount toward an event; includes PDG Commerce integration; provide a way for men to register in their own language; may not include theming of PDG Commerce templates
15hrs - Center internationalized integration (add events to center pages, etc.)
15hrs - Existing user internationalized integration (add event participation to existing user records)
30hrs - Add new registrations to salesforce.com; add/update new brother records; update existing records via caa. Note: using the Salesforce API will entail a learning curve
20hrs - localization into British English and associated cultural conventions - also debugging I18N/L10N subsystem so that future localizations go more smoothly
20hrs - "Last 20% of the work takes 80% of the time" - polish / cleanup / debugging
---
Any and all input, suggestions and especially suggested average/standard hourly contract rates deeply appreciated. We're a very small, poorly funded nonprofit doing good work in the world and I'm far outside my comfort zone working late at night 70-80 hrs/week trying to figure this all out.
Thanks in advance!
Keith R Jarvis
Comments
hourly rates...
Keith,
Thanks for sharing the details of your project.
Hourly rates for Drupal service providers runs a wide gamut. My suggestion would be to just be upfront with what your budget is - I think there is a fear that if one discloses their budget then the consultant or agency will come in $1 under whatever is mentioned. However, any reputable shop should be able to provide you with justification around how they are scoping the project (as your current contractor did). If anything, his/her hours may be on the low side - I did not see training/documentation/knowledge transfer included and enough time for testing (especially for browser compatibility issues). Anyway, I know you are looking for some validation around the estimate and overall I think your consultant is being more than fair. If you "explicitly trust" them already then I would recommend moving forward.
As far as what the market rate is for Drupal services, most North American based Drupal shops with a deep portfolio are going to be in the 100-150/hr range. However, I would not get hung up on rate - for example, you can probably find plenty of consultants who charge less, but are you going to paying for their on the job training? It may take someone who charges $50/hr four times as long to do something than a $125/hr consultant. Thus, efficiency is the key. As with any specialty expertise, you definitely get what you pay for. My only other recommendation is that there is value to finding someone familar with non-profit, Drupal sites - whether its having an existing knowledge base with commonly used modules in that vertical or sharing best practices of other projects.
Good Luck,
Dave
Mediacurrent
Nothing being hidden here!
There is no budget - the idea is to get some concept of how much it will cost so that I can create a budget so that I can appeal to the fundraising folks to give me the money to get it done.
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drupal.org/services is a list of service providers. I'd likely submit a quote to a handful of those shops and try and find an average.
As stated by the other commentor, there are "shops/individuals" that will quote $25 - $50 dollars an hour and take 4 times as long to complete the project. Or they bail and leave you hanging with a partially developed site. I'd seek someone with a brick and mortar building in the country/city you reside in. IMHO, The benefit to doing so is from a legality standpoint even if the outfit outsources to another developer, you still have someone to legally hold responsible where they promise you an apple and you wind up with a lemon.
I disagree...
I have to disagree on the "hire a brick-and-mortar" company. As an individual, my rate for nonprofits has fit within that range (the high end), and I NEVER bail on a project, nor does it take me 4 times as long to complete. In fact, I always seem to give far more of my time than I bill, and am available on-call to the client. That is because I am professional, and I feel an obligation to support Drupal as best that I am able.
Most of my current clients came to me because of lack of attention from a web shop. These shops tend to be interested only in the big build, and then leave the client hanging on all of the menial admin/maintenance issues. I typically lose money on these gigs, but feel that _someone_ should support them. The nonprofits seem to fair the worse, since people expect that their money pool is shallow. I like working with nonprofits (people who generally are working toward a greater good), so I look at my services as part charity work. [Probably why I stay poor in pocket...but rich in spirit!]
I have a "client" now who has been actively looking for 3+ months for someone to sort out his site's Ubercart problems. (I don't use Ubercart, and have recommended that he get someone who really knows this, since security is of issue.) No, it isn't a big, high-paying contract. I emailed a couple of web shops with the inquiry, who stated Ubercart as a specialty (including Ubercart.org folks) and received no response. I have posted his need on Drupal.org and on Ubercart.org...no takers.
Yet, I take his every phone call lamenting about his broken site, and I have charged him not 1 penny for that time spent, be it consoling or trying to help him find someone.
So, big shop or not, I think that experienced Drupalers need to think about Drupal work as a service to help further the proliferation and reputation of Drupal, not only for the big monetary payoff.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program. (If that happens to include looking for a great site builder; a rock-solid project manager; an awesome content producer; a kick-ass writer/editor; or videographer/v-editor, give me a shout.)
"Greta"
http://ItsAboutTyme.com
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as a "kick ass editor" I would have thought you would understand that taking a quote out of context of the entire sentence/discussion is well ... not kick ass and borderlines misrepresentation.
brick and mortar was to signify assets when the context became legality but I'm glad you got the above out of your system ; )
Apparently, you didn't get my
Apparently, you didn't get my post, or perhaps not the author's either. I understood all the author's points, and responded on point. But, I'll forgive your snarky reply.
http://ItsAboutTyme.com
$150/hr is extremely on higher side.
$150/hr is on higher side especially considering the recession. Even if you find a local developer, make sure you get gurantees in place of him not leaving the project, finishing the project on time and be available for discussions. There is a lot of time spent post delivery on helping the client understand how to add content in drupal and manage the site and in most cases, when these hours are billed, the client does not appreciate it.
There are many companies outside of US where you can get rates from $25 to $65/hr with many years of Drupal Development expertise and US companies outsourcing to them. It may even be the case that $150/hr company may inturn outsource to $25/hr company.
Best is to cut the middle man, have a local part time project manager who knows Drupal as end user and who can train you and then find a right partner who has deployed many successful sites and can guarantee delivery and long term "24 hour turnaround" support.
You don't want to get into a situation where a developer/shop sells you a site and when there are bugs(which is common in Drupal as it could be from core or contrib) or upgrades needed, you struggle to reach out to the partner as they would have moved on or possibly are understaffed.
The poster is looking for an
The poster is looking for an average, not the highest. I would second roshan by suggesting (without any statistical backup) that the average rate would be in the region of $30-50. This would get you a freelancer, with no business overheads: rent to pay on office, travel costs and staff benefits etc. In software development using Drupal, telecommute is the name of the game and this makes it an ideal environment for freelancers.
While the US currency is strong a remote (outside US) developer can turn $40 an hour into $60-80 in their own currency, and assuming they have lower cost of living than the US, this is a very good return. The same would apply to within US freelancers living in remote country towns where the cost of living is lower than in the big cities.
Rather than working out how much the job is going to cost on the highest possible hourly rate, you should find a developer at a reasonable hourly rate who does good work and then see if they can give you a cost estimate. If you need to go away to raise the funds first and come back 6 months later, then add 20% and make sure the developer is still available in 6 months.
developer rate ranges
I work both as an independent contractor on my own projects and as a subcontractor for established web development shops.
Based on my discussions with headhunters, project managers and development peers, I would estimate average Drupal freelancer/contractor rates as follows:
rate, level, experience
$20-35 USD, entry-level, 6 months to 1 year
$40-55 USD, mid-level, 1-2 years
$60-80 USD, senior-level, 3+ years
The above assumes the developer already has a solid LAMP background.
Rates driven by a combination of expertise, proficiency, thoroughness, compliance, etc. I would also add resourcefulness.
You are stating that USD is
You are stating that USD is strong outside US : I think this is not true, actually, for been paid in USD is not good because i need to convert it back to EURO.
But you're right that the cost of living is lower i some countries, this is why we can provide a lower hourly rates even if we have a great expertise in drupal.
Rate discussion...
This is the ultimate cliche, but rates really *depend* on a combination of factors.
I would just emphasize that thier is a distinction between freelancers and multi-developer agencies. Even experienced Drupal consultants tend to be segmented in their skill set - for example, they are excellent at theming/front-end work, but may not be as proficient in module development. In essence, they started out becoming an expert in one area of Drupal and gradually gained more knowledge in others. In a full-service Drupal shop, you can loop in a combination of personnel or experts to simultaneously work on a project.
As NewZeal said, the beauty of open-source though is no one has to develop in a bubble - code, documentation, resources etc. are readily available. Keep in mind, the speculative rates I quoted are for established Drupal firms who have completed full site build outs, not freelancers.
Again, to me, the most important trait to focus on is not rate, but identifying an individual or team with a proven track record of experience.
hi
Hi, regarding that I think, we are quite capable, having good track record in Drupal based as well as other PHP project, charges for us is really nominal :usd15/hr.
Innovative resources
What we look in individual is his ability to take up challenges and innovate. This has helped us stay ahead of the game.
Most of the time clients start the project specs without taking Drupal Architect with them along the process. This results in design that is either not Drupal friendly or many features left out which could have given them a competitive advantage.
Ideally client must take someone who has got 3 years extensive Drupal experience at least during the initial spec development. They may pay $125-150/hr but it will be so worth it rather than going out in the wrong direction and then complain on freelancers, shops and blame Drupal.
Rates are always tied to skills and experience- always!
Roshan
http://www.gloscon.com
A good indicator of an
A good indicator of an individual's experience with Drupal is to click their user account name and look at how long they've been a member of Drupal.org, and their history of forum posts, code contributions, etc.
http://www.trailheadinteractive.com
Great point, Chris.
I often see an individual or entity claiming to be an expert in Drupal, but when you look at their profile they've only been a member for a short period of time (sometimes just weeks or even days) and typically have
-only posted in the Paid Services forum (usually soliciting work or promoting their services)
-never contributed any projects, patches or snippets
-never participated in any technical discussions, answering or asking questions
-never helped out a less experienced member (go figure)
This might come as a surprise to some, but many independent contractors like myself CHOOSE to be independent. I have the best of both worlds, working as an independent contractor on my own projects and as a subcontractor for established web development shops.
If the client doesn't know what they want and needs a lot of hand-holding then they might be better off going with a web development shop, which have the resources and bandwidth to walk them through ever step of the process. However if the client has a good idea of what they want and just needs a consultant to make recommendations and then execute the plan, a freelancer (with a proven track record) might be the better way to go.
It's true that freelancers typically aren't as multi-faceted as a full service web development shop, but resourceful ones are well-networked and know other developers/themers to call upon if/when the need arises.
These same common sense rules apply to everything, whether having your car serviced, house painted or building a web site.
I totally agree that rates
I totally agree that rates are proportional to expertise. Freelancers may lie to get the leads but companies mostly run on reputation. Their rates may be on a higher end but the service and trust comes as an additional add on with hiring them.
As Roshan said there are many companies in US that take projects at rate of 150USD per hour and in turn outsource the projects to companies/freelancers with extensive Drupal experience based in India at 15-30USD per hour. Whats the point in paying 10 times billing when same work can be done in less amount?
Thanks
Priyanka
Even if a shop outsources, if
Even if a shop outsources, if they have a portfolio, references, and management skills to back it up, the rate might be justified. I would encourage those freelancers or India-based consultants to step forward and earn the $150 per hour that they could be making. On the other hand, why would a consultant work for $15 per hour when the could work for $50 or $100? That $15-30 per hour may indicate a proportional level of commitment to the client - regardless of experience.
http://www.trailheadinteractive.com
Also working with consultants
Also working with consultants in other continents mean that either the consultant or the client need to stay up late for conference calls.
I mean they can communicate just by email, but that will be a pain. A lot of people do not mind paying extra money for others to stay up instead of themselves.
Hi, criznach, totally agree
Hi, criznach, totally agree with your point!
From what I think, rate represents the proportional of expertise, but it indicates a proportional commitment to clients more. When I have a contract with company, I get paid as a full-time contractor(40 hours/week). It may happen that I work for 15 hours but claim only 10 hours pay, because I understand even as I haven't really completed some task, company still needs to pay me according to the rate, if I claim all the hours I have used.
If I was the in the company/client side who pays with considerable rate , I totally don't want such things happening. So I blame myself for lack of some specialty experience to project requirements and wasting time.
Rate directory
Some Drupal service providers post their rate on the following site. Search under the column 'Rate'. http://www.mydrupal.com/drupal-services
Drupal & Nail Fungus?!
I don't place much trust in a "Drupal Services Directory" that also helps you remove hemorrhoids and treat nail fungus (among other ailments) - see the footer links on that site.
my quick assessment
Based on my experience as a contractor and also an employee I'd say a good average for freelance developers will be north or south of $50/hr based on experience. Firms are usually going to be north of $100 and your well-known established Drupal shops will be start north of $150, 200 or more.
You get what you pay for. The
You get what you pay for.
The mark of a good developer is his ability to contribute back.
You hire a developer, need a feature (bug fix, whatever) X for module Y, the developer makes it.
A good developer will make a patch, refine it, and get it included in Y upstream.
This gives you the whole community as beta testers, you contributed back (warm fuzzy feeling!), and you can safely update to a new version.
Beware of those who just hack the module and leave it. Next time you update due to a security advisory, for example, you lose the features you need.
(I'm not even going to talk about the people who hack Drupal core instead of making a module. There's a special part of hell for that).
It might cost you 50% more to do it right, but if you get it done wrong, you will curse fate&destiny and wish you payed 150% more...
That's just my limited personal experience.
I agree that the best way to measure someone is by looking at his drupal.org profile. Commits, messages, everything.
Hiring someone who has no involvement in drupal.org is a sure way to get burned.
I'm a Canadian freelancer with references
I'm a Canadian freelance Drupal developer, with a reputation that I take seriously, and several references I can provide to prospective clients. I became a developer because I have a very real fascination with Drupal and it's potential. I have 6 years of experience in Drupal development and site design. My rate, currently, is $50.00/hr, and I always come in on or under budget. I don't take 3 or 4 times longer to get the work done, but I do insist on having enough time to do the project right.
Mathematical Answer
Although, it is really a good topic to open up & discuss Average hourly contractor rate for Drupal Development in such a subjective way.
But to come back to the original point in more arithmetic way, I would answer the question like this:
Average hourly contractor rate for Drupal Development = Sum of hourly rates by all reputed developers and firms / total number of them
It should be something like . . . $75/hour (purely fictional)
Based on what? Most
Based on what? Most developers have no interest in posting their rates and the ones who do post their rates cannot be verified to constitute a valid, statistically significant sample.
Ignoring the irrelevant word, reputed (reputed by whom?), your formula is correct, but you have no valid data to feed it. Your fictional figure is, of course, just that.
I believe that developers should charge what they feel is a fair price for their work, and not hold themselves to someone else's standard.
Average Rate depends on Skills and Geo
Lots of good comments and after reading the responses, unfortunately coming up with an "average" is no longer such a simple exercise. I'd like to add that a lot of companies now are providing a hybrid model where some of the team has US/UK experience (specially Project Managers) and the developers are from countries like India. They have done this to address the issue of managing a project well and making projects affordable. This add to the mix makes the questions posed earlier even harder to answer. But a general ballpark of $30-$100 average works. I know it's a wide range, but that's what's happened to the landscape and it's not going away anytime soon.
If you are comfortable with the person you trust and who gave you the initial hour estimate, go with that person's estimate & his hourly rate for your budget. Then if you need to price shop it, make sure you do your due diligence, look at the company's track record, check out references, skill sets, what you are comfortable with, etc. and then you will be able to make an informed decision. And yes, you can check us out and see if we make the cut :)
Good luck.
itjobswatch
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contract.aspx
Contractors usually have daily rates, not hourly.
Few examples of professional average Drupal rates (from my experience):
In London: £300-500/pd
In Dublin: €300-500/pd (similar in EU)
In Switzerland: 600-1000CHF/pd
For an hourly rate, divide by 8.
I'd like to just toss out the
I'd like to just toss out the snarky reply, "In places where IT is denigrated to day labor status, sure."
Yes, the Europe legal structure is unique to the rest of world, but the OP was pretty specific, "Average hourly contractor rate for Drupal Development?"
Consultants (e.g. contractors) in most of the world's labor force are paid by the hour.
Best,
Michael
Drupal Hosting
NIH Cancer Study: Supplemention with both vitamins and fenbendazole exhibited significant (P = 0.009) inhibition of tumor growth.
contracting rates
From my 6-and-so year experience of contracting across EU/UK/Swiss in worldwide sectors, contractors through IT agencies are mostly paid per day, unless you're just talking about freelancing, so then you can pick up any hourly rate you want. Then just divide daily rate by 8, so you'll have similar rate per hour.
Check this webpage: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market
There is only one column which states 'Median Daily Rate', not hourly rate. On most of IT recruitment websites in EU/UK usually you've daily rate for the advert for contracting, not hourly.
Software Developer new to drupal.
Hello all,
I am a software developer based in Pune City in the state of Maharashtra in India.
I am currently working as part of a team of 5 members. We all handle software projects and are trying our level best to get our setup going. Our goal is to finally have a company where visually challenged individuals won't need to spend their time trying to convince employers as we ourselves would be a platform to flourish.
More at: http://www.niwantvision.com/techvision
I am learning drupal on my own and have an opportunity to take up a project in drupal. I have done web development in PHP-Smarty before. But, as I am new to drupal, I don't quite know how should I go about quoting for the project. The requirement lists out the following functionalities:
1. Articles/Blogs can be posted (Possible using drupal core)
2. Visiters can post comments (Possible in drupal core).
3. Require Google Adsense, Amazon advertisements, etc (have searched a bit. There are modules for Google Adsense. Don't know how to use those or which is the best one.).
4. Require RSS feeds (Possible I think. Haven't used it as yet).
5. Accessibility required (Have searched intensively enough. Possible in drupal)
What I can't make out is how should I estimate the time lines and quote the price? My rough estimate is 3 months. My knowledge level in drupal is upto usage of drupal. Haven't coded as yet and need to learn module/theme development. I guess module development could take me about 15 days probably. To give you guys an idea of what I know in drupal, I am trying to build my own web site in drupal at http://www.sidnc86.com/ and also trying to make it accessible.
Thanks in advance,
Siddhant Chothe.
Since you don't yet know how
Since you don't yet know how to do any of the listed items, I would assume you will spend a lot of time learning. Personally in that situation, if I wanted to learn those things, I'd give a reasonable estimate that's likely to get me the job. I'd let the client know that they are not being charged for learning time. The time spent learning is an investment that I don't get paid for. Start developing an idea of how long these things take once you've done them a few times. Keep a log if it helps. You won't always be able to get an estimate from someone else, and if you do, it probably won't apply to your skill set. :)
Chris
http://www.trailheadinteractive.com
2016 update
Just found this thread and was looking to rekindle the flame...
Anyone care to share their thoughts on estimating and rates with regards to the current state of Drupal development?
Approximations, US $ / hour:
Approximations, US $ / hour:
10- Indian, or other low quality, development shop.
20+ Jr. developer who's been using Drupal for 1 man year.
200+ 1st tier city, on site, Sr. Developer hired through large consulting shop.
Unfortunately, you don't get what you pay for in most cases. So, shop around and piece out very small tasks until you find someone who's worthwhile.
Best,
Michael
Drupal Hosting
NIH Cancer Study: Supplemention with both vitamins and fenbendazole exhibited significant (P = 0.009) inhibition of tumor growth.