Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 8 August 2022 [#3301329]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Now happens every Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3301329`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

mglaman	:wave: Matt, phpstan-drupal && drupal-rector
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California :wave:
shaal	:blob_wave: Ofer Shaal, Florida :sunglasses:
xjm	:wave: xjm, release manager
andypost	Andy, PHP 8.2 fan
hestenet (he/him)	Tim from the DA keeping track
amey mudras	Amey Mudras from India :wave:
Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)	Ilcho Vuchkov, Bulgaria,,Contrib modules (co)maintainer
quietone	Hi
atul ghate	Hello , Atul from India.
Jatin Gupta	Hello, Jatin from India. :pray:
omkar-pd	Hi, Omkar from India :blob_wave:

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

Kristen Pol (she/her)	New Drupal 10 porting event! :slightly_smiling_face:
xjm	We can probably due the same priority status update rundown as last meeting

2️⃣ The next Drupal 10 porting event is August 26 01:00 UTC to August 27 01:00 UTC!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://www.drupal.org/community/events/drupal-10-global-porting-day-aug...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks to @spleshka (he/him), @kalabro and @Tamsin Fox-Davies for leading it :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Last Thursday @Kristen Pol (she/her) and I had a short meeting with them and everbody is excited :slightly_smiling_face:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I think the meeting went well and am pleased at the progress the leads are making :slightly_smiling_face:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	We need mentors :slightly_smiling_face:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Open to feedback from people who were at last event for how to improve the next one
mglaman	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) given the next porting day… I should probably find some time for drupal-rector and coordinate a release with fixes and new rules from the issue queue. Should we also re-run the update bot beforehand for new patches?or, if @Kristen Pol (she/her) gets feedback, we can see if folks relied on running Rector locally or just patches on Drupal.org
Kristen Pol (she/her)	There were some people who updated patches but I wasn't paying careful attention enough to know if they were running rector locally to fix those... not sure they even said but we could follow up with those people for those particular issues... there weren't a ton... maybe <25
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mglaman if there are updates to rector that would change the patches, we should run the bot in time before that yeah :slightly_smiling_face: thanks for all your work!
gambry	@Kristen Pol (she/her) @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) I’ll be available for any organization task you want to throw to me.I’ll coordinate the event a bit better within my company, and possibly train some folks to mentor during the event.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Awesome :clap:

3️⃣ . 0️⃣ Only 32 days left until the beta deadline, following sub-threads cover the critical things left for the beta.

Kristen Pol (she/her)

https://twitter.com/kristen_pol/status/1556727869618864128?s=20&t=_RnVOy...

3️⃣ . 1️⃣ CKEditor 4 and 5 related critical tasks for the Drupal 10 beta

xjm	#3274937: Get CKEditor 5 to work in (modal) dialogs went in recently, was broken by the CKE5 security update, and then has been fixed again. We're down to very few stable blockers now aside from the accessibility improvements CKSource is hard at work on.
xjm	#3222797: Upgrade path from CKEditor 4's StylesCombo to CKEditor 5's Style also went in this week!
xjm	I think this means that, as of right now, there are no CKE5 stable blockers that aren't blocked on upstream: #3238333: Roadmap to CKEditor 5 stable in Drupal 9
xjm	I'm not 100% sure, but I think it might be time to do #3271097: Replace CKEditor 4 with CKEditor 5 in the Standard profile and StandardTest -- one of the steps needed to deprecate CKEditor 4.
xjm	The above issue would be a good project for someone
xjm	At least, it'd be good to have a working MR for it, even if it's not quite time to commit it yet because of the upstream a11y issues
lauriii	#3222756: Allow using images from external source is unblocked
lauriii	They shipped the upstream part in the latest release
xjm	I'll update its title
catch	#3268306: [GHS] Custom/unofficial HTML tags not retained: <drupal-media>, <drupal-entity>, <foobar> is unblocked too, not sure if there's anything for us to do there or not, but good to close out if not!

3️⃣ . 2️⃣ Tasks related to PHP 8.2 and Symfony 6.2 compatibility (edited)

xjm	We committed more PHP 8.2-friendly dep updates today and https://www.drupal.org/pift-ci-job/2446267 is running to tell us the next step of our quest :smile:
andypost	Primary blocker for PHP 8.2 is #2531564: Fix leaky and brittle container serialization solution
andypost	Few child issues needs review and work under #3275851: [META] Fix PHP 8.2 dynamic property deprecations
xjm	Hooray! Many deprecations to address :sweat_smile:
xjm	https://dispatcher.drupalci.org/job/drupal8_core_regression_tests/63010/
andypost	Still 2,977 failed, expect 116 https://dispatcher.drupalci.org/job/drupal_patches/142601/
andypost	Btw 112! https://dispatcher.drupalci.org/job/drupal_patches/142601/

3️⃣ . 3️⃣ Making Starterkit theme / command stable

xjm	The latest status here is that @lauriii is working on an outline for docs to upgrade D9 themes to D10. We should collaborate on them as a group. Need the link to them though. :innocent:
lauriii	We are going to be collaborating on that on https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b8sDg2-GJcuJSfoQGeps8DpcpWrtWi5jjM-B...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Wrote a quick blurb for Seven, is this the kind of thing we are looking for? :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	What’s the technical level this document aims to target? (edited)
lauriii	I think we could include a composer command for adding the Seven contributed project
lauriii	other than that, I think it’s pretty much what I had in mind :thumbsup:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	composer require drupal/seven should be it I think?! :smile: (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Added a similar explanation to Bartik. Also added explanation about adding to a Drupal 9 site, although I suspect some cache clearing may be in order there in case of duplicate projects?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I suspect Classy and Stable will be different instructions though?! (edited)
xjm	Yeah, there we probably want two approaches: Retaining the dependency, or updating to a Starterkit approach
xjm	Also suggesting that those depending on Stable update to at least Stable 9
lauriii	Not sure how feasible that would be
xjm	Wasn't the whole idea with the Stable-per-major that folks should try to update them? They don't have to do it when updating to D10, but we sure as heck won't support Stable 8 in perpetuity
xjm	But we definitely at least want a section, or a separate page, with recommendations on how to migrate from Classy to a Starterkit approach
lauriii	The reason Stable 8 is in Drupal 9 is that it isn’t straight forward to switch from one Stable theme to another
xjm	Yeah but again, we're not going to support it forever...
xjm	So we should give them some advice about that
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah the text I wrote is also in the pattern of "adopt the shiny new thing if you can .... Ok if you can't then here is how to live on for a while"
lauriii	I think for now the cost of maintenance is lower than the cost of upgrading all themes to Stable 9
lauriii	Maybe we should see usage stats from the contrib once it’s available and decide later what to do
lauriii	It should go down over time as more and more themes get rebuilt on the more modern alternatives
xjm	They don't all need to be upgraded to Stable 9; just the ones that will stick around for several more years
lauriii	Problem is that Classy still used Stable 8 meaning that all new themes built with Classy are still becoming as new Stable 8 themes
xjm	Right, I meant themes that depend directly on Stable
xjm	Themes that depend on Classy should switch to the Starterkit approach, which should be a less painful migration, especially since the Starterkit theme itself is very close to Classy
lauriii	Yeah, but they would also have to worry about Stable to Stable 9 migration
xjm	I don't think Classy should change its dependency
lauriii	It should not, but Classy depends on Stable and therefore all the themes built on Classy do also
xjm	Yes but leave those aside -- they should switch to the Starterkit approach and possibly the Starterkit base theme, which has no such dependency
lauriii	Technically it’s possible to come up with steps for upgrading between themes but to cover all edge cases, it will be tedious
xjm	If your theme depends on Classy: For now, depend on contrib Classy. Read up on Starterkit; consider switching to the Starterkit-generated base theme in the next few years and then you can incorprorate improvements following [these other instructions]If your theme depends directly on Stable (no Classy dependency): [advice here](edited)
xjm	These aren't edgecases; they are the two main ways to build themes!!
xjm	We don't need to cover edgecases; that's the maintainer's problem when they get to it
xjm	We just need to give basic recommendations for the immediate upgrade and then the two-year/Drupal 11 plan (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah we don’t need to provide surefire guidance IMHO but since we know the path forward we should give an indication what can they expect in terms of support timeline in contrib and what do we think is the way forward IMHO.

3️⃣ . 4️⃣ Decoupling of tests from Classy, Bartik and Seven

xjm	I saw a few more of these go in over the past week :tada:
xjm	There are a few remaining children in #3285205: [META] Convert test that use Bartik/Seven to Olivero/Claro that would be good to focus on and burn down
xjm	Meanwhile #3083275: [meta] Update tests that rely on Classy to not rely on it anymore looks like primarily LB and Media left there
catch	Bartik/Seven we are down to the 9.5.x backport of #3281434: Update System module tests to not use Bartik and Seven now.
catch	The last issue is never the last issue, new last one here: #3302800: Core tests need to filter out deprecated themes when looping over all themes

3️⃣ . 5️⃣ Deprecating and removing Color, RDF and QuickEdit

xjm	#3292780: Move Quick Edit related Javascript from core/modules/ckeditor5/js/ckeditor5.es6.js::detach() to the Quick Edit module is in now, which should help unblock QuickEdit's deprecation
xjm	Since QuickEdit was created so long ago (it was our first attempt to move a module into contrib for D10), I think we need to deal with #3264949: Move Quick Edit help topics to contrib Quick Edit module)
xjm	For color, I think all that remains is manual testing?
andypost	Is forum going to comtrib? (edited)
xjm	It's allowed to, but it's not one of the priorities since it doesn't have any associated dependencies to deprecate
xjm	For RDF, #3293813: Move RDF-related tests to RDF module needs some work
xjm	@longwave ^ Useful based on trawling through the issues, I think Color is the best candidate for a first manual test (I think)
xjm	Might want to try both a scenario with Bartik, and one with a D9 contrib theme that has Color integration if we can find one (edited)
Björn Brala (bbrala)	@xjm i have some time today it seems. I'll do the manual testing for color. Seems that is the one things posponing #3270899: Remove Color module from core, ill create a new childissue for it :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Well, did a pass, documented all steps and even didnt forget to start a screenrecording :wink:#3302799: Manually test color module removal#comment-14646319Only weirdness is (not included in recording) when applying the patch to remove color completly some CSS generation seemed to stop working... No idea why.(Ping @xjm @Spokje @longwave)
longwave	thanks - i will try to reproduce later and see if i can figure out the CSS generation issue
Björn Brala (bbrala)	might be because the patch didnt cleanly apply
Björn Brala (bbrala)	could do a clean core install and then include color as you would probably do. Should you haven't looked into it yet ill try and check tonight.
Spokje	some CSS generation seemed to stop working.Do you remember what CSS was missing/non-working?
Björn Brala (bbrala)	The theme css in the frontend
Spokje	Thanks :slightly_smiling_face: (edited)
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Mightve been a missing logo which borked the css.
Björn Brala (bbrala)	I'll do a clean drupal 10 with the removal patch and verify, the ms. Isn't home yet hehe
Spokje	A core removal module/theme issue isn't an actual core removal module/theme issue until at least 21 snags are hit along the way :innocent:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	This is the way.
Björn Brala (bbrala)	In a clean core 10 install on the branch of the parent issue, with contrib color and honey (with lenient) it works as expected!
Björn Brala (bbrala)	yay
Björn Brala (bbrala)	@longwave nothing to do here, verified in a nice core install without a weird broken patch :slightly_smiling_face:
Spokje	Commit, close slack, close mail, close phone: All done :smiling_imp:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Not sure about the review/rtbc/fixed stuff on these kind of issues, but perhaps i set rtbc then you reviewing my manual process and marking fixed is how we proceed?
Björn Brala (bbrala)	i could also set needs review, you rtbc, and release person or something sets fixed? ;x
Björn Brala (bbrala)	@xjm you around by any chance? :heart:
longwave	yeah i think we should do that, you NR, i will review/rtbc later, and then xjm can mark fixed i think?
Spokje	I think RTBC is great, also maybe @longwave might want to try to reproduce with another theme before we get all excited.
Spokje	Ah, NR it is :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	hehe
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Yeah, i don't think we need to test with other themes also tbh. That feels like overdoing it ;x
longwave	i dont have time to look right now but will in a few hours
Björn Brala (bbrala)	thank you :slightly_smiling_face:
Spokje	I think a few extra hours isn't going to break 10.0.0-beta :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	at some point we will be short x amount of hours lol :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Spokje	At some point my life-expectancy became x amount of hours shorter because these issues, but to quote the Drupal Derwish @dww:Core is hard.