Claro - March 30 2022 Meeting in Slack

This meeting takes place every Wednesday at at 3pm UTC (8:30pm IST, 4pm CET, 10am ET, 7am PST). See Time.is to see what that is in your timezone.

The meetings are held using Slack threads in the #admin-ui Slack channel.

UPDATED (transcript added)

Introductions
13 replies

saschaeggi
katannshaw
deviantintegral
andy-blum
ckrina
javi-er
cindytwilliams
rkoller
Gábor Hojtsy
lauriii
thejimbirch
mherchel
dww

***

Claro general status update
➤ The goal is to have Claro as the default admin theme for D10, deprecating Seven.
➤ Beta requirements need to be ready by mid-May, so we should get rid of the remaining Claro stable blockers before that so we have time to finish the needed steps to deprecate Seven.

***

What agenda items would you like to discuss today?
7 replies

ckrina
I’d love to start the conversation for Implement chips based autocomplete designs https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3222995
Implement chips based autocomplete designs

ckrina
And also Toolbar style update https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3020422 cc @saschaeggi @lauriii
Toolbar style update

ckrina
Also I’d love to get some direction on the issues listed in https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3088562 thanks to @rkoller, to see which of them could become stable blockers
[META] Assess Claro for WCAG colour contrast AA conformance

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Drupal Dev Days! Who will be there other than me and @lauriii and what should we focus on :slightly_smiling_face: Also I think @lauriii is planning to cover Claro in the initiative keynote on Tuesday.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Also DrupalCon! Who will be there? We should get Claro into the contribution topics doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D7BGHIoirXBqvGX__9TItz0OHjiINJcHvG1h... which will be used to publish on the DrupalCon website and promote the contribution events. Should help drum up some interest and get some new contributors possibly or at least help the existing ones coordinate :slightly_smiling_face: — for this it would be important to define any BoFs planned :slightly_smiling_face: (edited)

ckrina
:arrow_right: Do we need a BoF for DrupalCon NA?

katannshaw
@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) I’ve separated your convo into Topic 9. Sorry for the mixup

***

Any further general updates from the maintainers or product managers?
3 replies

katannshaw
@ckrina Do you have any general updates to post in here?

ckrina
We just fixed 2 Stable blockers in the last days :tada:

ckrina
And 2 more are RTBC, so almost there!

***

Where can contributors help this week? There will be threads for the individual components
3 replies

ckrina
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3082672
Form prefix/suffix redesign in Claro

ckrina
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3085219
Redesign Installer

deviantintegral
I can reroll the installer issue this week

***

Topic 1: I’d love to start the conversation for Implement chips based autocomplete designs https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3222995
10 replies

ckrina
Yeah, basically we have the designs, but we’ve never had a serious conversation about how to implement it.

saschaeggi:gitlab:
Yeah it’s been a while since we last touched this :sweat_smile:

ckrina
I assume by the time this gets to core Claro will be the default theme, and I guess it could ideally be reused on Tags, but also in other places like contrib

saschaeggi:gitlab:
Yes, I had that in mind, too

rkoller
i've checked the issue the first time now. the chips look great and i like the design direction. only one comment from an a11y perspective. the grey non active chips might have a too low color contrast to the adjacent background color white (SC 1.4.11). the grey button in contrast to the background has a ratio of 1,3:1 and i would consider a chip an ui component (but might one of the a11y maintainers if it would be necessary). also the close icon on a chip as a slightly too low contrast to the grey chip background color (2.9:1)

ckrina
@rkoller do you think that could be solved this the new Blue&Gray color scales? We merged the Gray changes a while ago, afetr this designs

saschaeggi:gitlab:
@rkoller yes revisiting the designs I agree we have to improve some bits in terms of contrast before we start implementing it :thumbsup: (edited)

rkoller
@ckrina i am not that familiar with the new scales. would have to see the scales applied to the design. i'Ve just did my comment based on the comments and screenshots in the issue. and that a component is easily is distinguishable from the surroundings. might be a similar path like with the button issue i'Ve created yesterday. where mike gifford suggested either go with an outline providing a better contrast for the component or increase its background color in case one of the grey color variants from the new scale would fit from a design perspective and solve the contrast issue at the same time?

ckrina
So, about the implementation itself: should we come up with places this could be used to see which kind of implementation we need? (edited)

saschaeggi:gitlab:
I think that would be a great idea @ckrina

***

Topic 2: And also Toolbar style update https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3020422 cc @saschaeggi @lauriii
32 replies

ckrina
I proposed this because of the conversation in https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907, where they’re trying to fix an accessibility problem, but adding a huge visual change

ckrina
And we have finished designs, which are basically a refresh instead of a redesign

ckrina
While Gin (cc @saschaeggi) has a really nice new redesign (the light version one), which I’d say (personal opinion) should be a direction we should ideally take

ckrina
So, what would it take to move a variation of this into core?

ckrina
What other people think? Do you think it would be a good approach?

saschaeggi:gitlab:
I’d move the refresh in first and then we can create a follow up to explore a redesigned toolbar (edited)

ckrina
My concern is that the refresh keeps the same accessibility issues that https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907 is trying to fix

rkoller
i am drawn between both positions and i am in lack of deeper background knowledge. but i totally understand dereks point and it is a reasonable, important and valid one from my point of view. but on the other hand i also understand the point you have made about the breaking visual designs for the affordance issue (and there is also the newly created focus style issue for the toolbar https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3270230 (was articulated in the last a11y office hour). my question would be how much time would it take to make the mentioned design discovery for the necessary changes for the toolbar style update that the design is inline with your vision and at the same time fix those two a11y issues as well? i mean the goal for claro is to become stable in 9.4 i understand and the goal for the affordance issue is 9.4 as well. so would it be possible and viable to make the necessary design discovery in time and implement everything so all three issues are fixed in time? cuz implementation wise it wouldnt start from zero in any way same for the design. (edited)
Toolbar focus styles are not sufficiently obvious to know where your focus is

saschaeggi:gitlab:
@rkoller I totally agree with dww points as well. But I am a bit concerned that we won’t be able to ship it in time if we widen the scope again. I think what we have in https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3020422 is visually an upgrade to using the Seven design in Claro. But I also think we can easily do a quick iteration for a “quick fix”.
As Success Criterion 1.4.11 needs a 3:1 contrast we could easily do something like the attached draft.
This is inspired by the implementation in Gin. This would not break the toolbar’s design, but adding a 3:1 contrast (both against white and the dark grey)
cc @ckrina (edited)
Toolbar_active_item.png

ckrina
Claro is not blocked by Toolbar’s initial design a11y issues, meaning none of those (3270230 and 3097907) https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907 are Claro stable blockers.

ckrina
Not that I don’t care about those issues, just to clarify

saschaeggi:gitlab:
I think the Gin inspired change could easily address the issue for now (and also looks more modern) (edited)

lauriii
+1 on that

ckrina
another +1 here!

ckrina
What about a dedicated meeting for this reviewing code & designs?

rkoller
even i am not a designer also a +1 from me. i also like the idea with the blue for the active item.
and thanks for the explanation in regards of the claro stable blocker, wasnt aware of that!

lauriii
Would be great to loop in dww on this, would love to hear what he thinks on the proposal

rkoller
i've noticed @saschaeggi already posted a comment on the toolbar style update issue with the suggested fix for discussion: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3020422#comment-14463034
Toolbar style update

ckrina
not sure if we’re talking about the screenshot with the blue active item of the whole Gin inspired idea (light version instead of black region) (edited)

ckrina
but either way a plan of action to address this seems needed

ckrina
and involving @dww would be great too

saschaeggi:gitlab:
@ckrina actually both! :slightly_smiling_face: For the active item (toolbar tab) improvement and for the redesign (edited)

dww
Thanks everyone! Sorry I've only been able to get to this now. Timezones and jobs can be tricky. :wink: Very much appreciate the desire to quickly find good solutions for all of these things, and for looping me in.
Mostly the screenshot above and what @saschaeggi posted at the comment above looks good. However, I have a couple of lingering concerns from the perspective of 3097907 and accessibility. Not sure if I should post them here, at 3020422 (where the screenshot is now visible in an issue) or in 3097907 (where it's most relevant).

dww
I'll start here, and can copy/paste them elsewhere as appropriate.

dww
A. @andrewmacpherson’s original concern was:
This doesn't satisfy two WCAG success criteria:
SC 1.4.1 Use of Color (level A).
SC 1.4.11 Non-text contrast (level AA). If we regard the current background gradient as indicating a state of a UI control (in this case "open" vs. "closed") then the colour difference doesn't have enough contrast.
and the original proposed resolution says:
Add a new signifier to the active toolbar tray, which doesn't rely on colour differences alone. Make more effective use of shape signifiers too.
The bright blue is certainly a high enough contrast to handle 1.4.11, but it's still only a color difference. It seems like 1.4.1 would remain unsolved.@andrewmacpherson kept advocating for the "inverted T" as a shape, not just a different color than the non-active items. That's why breaking the line and messing with the design was intentional, but also why y'all don't seem to like it. :wink:
I don't consider myself nearly knowledgable enough to say one way or the other. I think this would need to go back for accessibility review to be sure, ideally with Andrew involved (if possible).

dww
B. We haven't really begun to look into how to solve https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3270230 . It seems like some kind of focus ring concept would be useful (something Claro already does very well), but that seems it could be tricky to keep the contrast up against that bright blue. Maybe there's a nice, clean way to do this. Again, I defer to folks more highly skilled in both design and accessibility.
Toolbar focus styles are not sufficiently obvious to know where your focus is

dww
Claro is not blocked by Toolbar’s initial design a11y issues, meaning none of those (3270230 and 3097907) https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907 are Claro stable blockers.
Very true. I only meant that if we fixed and committed 3097907 first, and then 3270230 introduced an accessibility regression, that the follow-up regression issue might be a stable blocker. Totally agree these existing bugs in toolbar are in no way Claro stable blockers. (edited)

dww
@ckrina , @saschaeggi , @lauriii : should I move these comments to 3097907 or would y’all rather discuss here, first? Thanks!

lauriii
@dww if you could do that, that would be great :pray:

dww
After coffee and breakfast. :wink:

dww
Moved to https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3097907#comment-14464999

dww
(and re-tagged for Accessibility review)

***

Topic 3: [META] Assess Claro for WCAG colour contrast AA conformance https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3088562
7 replies

katannshaw
RE: @ckrina Also I’d love to get some direction on the issues listed in https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3088562 thanks to @rkoller, to see which of them could become stable blockers

ckrina
Probably we’d need some direction from an accessibility expert

katannshaw
@ckrina What else is needed on this one?

ckrina
We have several issues under “Remaining tasks”, but we shoudl classify those between “Stable blockers(Must haves)“, “Should haves” and “Could haves”

rkoller
would it make sense to let one of the a11y maintainers tag the issues by the categories you've listed @ckrina? (edited)

katannshaw
Do you need one of the a11y maintainers to do this or can anyone with a11y expertise do this?

lauriii
I think it could be anyone with a11y expertise :slightly_smiling_face:

***

Topic 4: [META] Assess conformance with WCAG SC 2.4.7 “Focus Visible” https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3163810
5 replies

rkoller
one question about that issue. would it make sense to create a new spreadsheet for 9.4.x and copy and paste the checks already done for the 9.2.x one and then retest and extend on that in the current state?

ckrina
Maybe that info could be moved into the issue itself?

rkoller
ok. then go the same way like with the color contrast meta issue and create child issues for each occasion. then i will transfer the reported issues into separate issues ( i add a comment who foudn and reported it in the issue that one of the maintainers could credit the reporter) and add a few of my own i found.

rkoller
will write things up tonight. or at least start to

ckrina
Thanks!!

***

Topic 5: [META] Assess Claro’s conformance with WCAG Text spacing, Text resize, and Reflow. https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3087225

***

Topic 6: Assess accessibility of Claro in High Contrast AKA forced colors mode https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3080100

***

Topic 7: Drupal Dev Days! Who will be there other than me and @lauriii and what should we focus on :slightly_smiling_face: Also I think @lauriii is planning to cover Claro in the initiative keynote on Tuesday.
1 reply

lauriii
Yup planning to do so! Any topics I should cover there_

***

Topic 8: Do we need a BoF for DrupalCon NA? (edited)
19 replies

katannshaw
RE @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) We should get Claro into the contribution topics doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D7BGHIoirXBqvGX__9TItz0OHjiINJcHvG1h... which will be used to publish on the DrupalCon website and promote the contribution events. Should help drum up some interest and get some new contributors possibly or at least help the existing ones coordinate :slightly_smiling_face: — for this it would be important to define any BoFs planned

lauriii
I will be there

ckrina
Me too!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Also let’s get us into that contribution doc then :slightly_smiling_face: I put in Drupal 10, and many other initiatives filled it in. Who will do it for Claro?

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
IMHO it is important that we shine a light on the contribution opportunity as that would help people to show up and make a dent :slightly_smiling_face:

ckrina
@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) outside of the Out of the Box?

ckrina
I put myself in Claro, although I haven’t written anything yet because I thought it was for the whole initiative.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
IMHO its fine to present it as part of OOTB, but then someone would need to take on writing the whole thing up :slightly_smiling_face: I am not aware anyone on media will be at DrupalCon for example or anyone on layouts will be there?!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
So its pretty much Claro only then?

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Unless Emilie has plans, hm.

lauriii
I think for the purposes of the sprint, it’s fine to have them separate

lauriii
People who are interested in sprinting on Claro, might not be interested in sprinting on Layout Builder, and vice versa

lauriii
Also, it makes it more concrete

ckrina
Ok, it makes sense

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
yay, let’s have separate sections then indeed :slightly_smiling_face:

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Separated! Feel free to edit away on Claro :slightly_smiling_face:

ckrina
I’ve just added some text, but it needs improvement.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Re the BoF btw it is really useful as in it is much less intimidating to join as a spectator in a discussion as opposed to approach the big @ckrina and/or @lauriii themselves 1-1 at the contribution tables :flushed: imagine the session/keynote >> BoF >> contribution as a funnel where the BoF requires some more dedication from attendees compared to listening to a session but still imposter syndrome friendly and the contribution room requires courage for new folks that you can help ease them into with the BoF. (edited)

ckrina
Done

***

Topic 9: DrupalCon! Who will be there?
We should get Claro into the contribution topics doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D7BGHIoirXBqvGX__9TItz0OHjiINJcHvG1h... which will be used to publish on the DrupalCon website and promote the contribution events. Should help drum up some interest and get some new contributors possibly or at least help the existing ones coordinate :slightly_smiling_face: — for this it would be important to define any BoFs planned

***

Any additional topics to discuss?

This is for any open-ended things that don’t fit in any other topics or discussions…

***

Continue the conversation in Slack. Thank you for showing up and contributing!
If you have additional questions or comments, please post them here or on the meeting agenda issue: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3273704

Thanks @katannshaw for running this! It helps a lot! :raised_hands: (edited)