Agenda items

Standing items

  • Who is here
  • Any other suggested topics
  • Wins / Thanks / Blockers
  • Statistics and functionality update. X new bugs created in last two weeks. Y closed by the initiative.
  • The bug I would most like to see fixed
  • Update on target items from last meeting
  • What should be the initiative focus for the next 2 weeks?

Statistics

Statistics graph

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread to introduce yourself. We’ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours to allow for all timezones.

larowlan lee, au :wave:
darvanen :man-raising-hand:
quietone Hi
amjad1233 Amjad, AU
Griffyn Heels :wave: Griff, Au
mohit_aghera Mohit, IndiaCatching up again after Diwali vacation.
jibran Jibran, AU.
Kristen Pol (she/her) Kristen, California, catching up
Matroskeen Ivan, Ukraine :wave:
lendude Len, waking up
Guilherme Vitoriano Pereira Guilherme, Brazil. Back after a long time, hope I can help more!
Paulo Henrique Cota Starling Paulo, Brazil :flag-br:
ambermatz Amber, US (back from sabbatical)
dww Derek, US

0️⃣.5️⃣ What's your favourite Drupal community initiative (other than Bugsmash)?

larowlan D10 readiness I think
darvanen I think automatic updates will go a long way towards reinvigorating Drupal as an option for non-enterprise sites
mohit_aghera Automatic updates
jibran Migration!!!
Kristen Pol (she/her) D10 readiness :slightly_smiling_face:
lendude D10 readiness
Guilherme Vitoriano Pereira Diversity and Inclusion.
dww Very hard to answer this question. :wink: They all seem important. Big +1 to @Guilherme Vitoriano Pereira for bringing in community health initiatives, too.

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

quietone Selecting target issue(s) for each two week period (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her) A bit late to suggest something but I saw @quietone and @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) chatting about this in #d10readiness https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1636401502127700?thread_t...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Good point, things that do not apply anymore to 9.x should be closed as outdated, otherwise they will move to 9.2.x “silently” and will be harder to audit after that.

2️⃣.1️⃣ Wins - what wins have you had since the last meeting? Share your successes!

larowlan really enjoying the daily triage reminder
quietone Me too. And I liked using it over the weekend.
Matroskeen Got RTBC after giving some attention to 9 years old Views issue: #1810148: Grouped exposed taxonomy term filters do not work because the group key is added to the query and not the taxonomy ID
dww Happy to have #3150294: New translations for moderated nodes are not created in the initial workflow state at RTBC (a former bugsmash target)
dww Major win: we found / fixed #3246150: Bundle class changes mean the entity class is now determined by the active entity-type definition before we released a version of core that included the bug. Guess that's a negative age for how long the bug existed. :wink: It'll throw off all our stats calculations! :nerd_face:

2️⃣.2️⃣ Thanks - a space for callouts to other contributors who’ve helped you

larowlan thanks to @darvanen for joining the ranks of a regular contributor, have been actively helping in lots of spots
amjad1233 Thanks to @larowlan for helping in various things. Including accountSwitcher and Mail testing services.
darvanen @dww for nudging along a pet issue of mine @AdamPS for tirelessly acting on feedback on a tricky tokens issue @larowlan for a little mentoring, again
larowlan I second AdamPS
mohit_aghera Thanks to @lendude for reviewing multiple issues and important feedback.
Matroskeen Thanks to @dww and @lendude for reviews and quick replies

2️⃣.3️⃣ Blockers - what’s getting in the way of your issues / goals

(anonymous) Comment Redacted
amjad1233 I broke my docker setup for normal contrib stuff now switching to lando
amjad1233 Or any better suggestions ?
darvanen Can't seem to get tests working locally for core dev. Working fine on my contrib setup.(contrib uses drupal-project, core is a git clone) (edited)
darvanen
Or any better suggestions ?

I found lando painfully slow when refreshing to work on a new branchHappy to share my docker setup or help you debug yours on a call
amjad1233 would love to see for sure
amjad1233 @darvanen It seems to be like Mac file sync issue although I am on the latest OS version. Like sometimes I don’t see my code which I edit outside docker reflecting inside the container.
darvanen Let's open a thread in #support to discuss :slightly_smiling_face:
quietone My first success with docker was with lando. A while back I switched to ddev and am much happier. I am on Debian stable.
Kristen Pol (she/her) I highly recommend drupalpod for contribution work... you can pin an environment if you need it long term or just spin up one-off environments
Kristen Pol (she/her) Blockers for me are back pain and too much work
Paulo Henrique Cota Starling I use lando for dev. I configured it to run all types of tests in contrib environment or core dev environment (my core dev env is a git clone too). If you use lando, i can help you @darvanen.

3️⃣ Core bug statistics - current state of open bugs

quietone There are currently 7021 Drupal 8/9 bug reports. It will be great to get below 7000.
quietone Today: 2021-11-09

From: 2021-10-26 to 2021-11-09

All bugs
Open: 50, including 14 fixed
Closed: 102
Age Count
00 36
01 06
02 12
03 09
04 11
05 13
06 04
07 02
08 04
09 02
10 03

Status Count
closed (duplicate) 33
closed (won't fix) 2
closed (works as designed) 7
closed (cannot reproduce) 10
closed (fixed) 40
closed (outdated) 10

Approximately 342 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs.

Only bugs tagged Bug Smash Initiative
Open: 12, including 6 fixed
Closed: 54
Age Count
00 09
01 04
02 11
03 06
04 07
05 08
06 03
08 03
09 01
10 02

Status Count
closed (duplicate) 21
closed (won't fix) 1
closed (works as designed) 5
closed (cannot reproduce) 5
closed (fixed) 12
closed (outdated) 10

Approximately 216 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs.
lendude Open: 50, including 14 fixed
Closed: 102:scream_cat:

4️⃣ Nominate your pet issue for a bug-smash target for the next fortnight

mohit_aghera Will be working on my past issues that are in “Needs work” state.
Kristen Pol (she/her) I'm helping with getting a contributed module up to handle this issue so it would be nice to be able to close this one out once that's been vetted:#3056124: Vimeo videos with domain-level privacy setting break oEmbed

5️⃣ Help me - Is there anything you could use a :hand: with?

dww Triaging the update.module issue queue and fixing bugs in there. :wink:

6️⃣ Approve last fortnight's minutes

quietone I recently made a mistake on credit in Migrate minutes so it is really helpful for someone to look at the minues.

7️⃣ Action items from last meeting

8️⃣ @quietone "Selecting target issue(s) for each two week period"

quietone The daily triage and the triage meetings are going well so I was thinking about the target issue. That could be because I personally have not participated much in the target issue....
quietone Is the goal of the target issue or issues to get it to RTBC or something else, like make progress on tough ones?
Griffyn Heels Are you referring to 4️⃣ ? I had read that as place to shoutout what you wants to tackle.
Griffyn Heels But we did mention last meeting of more 'high' issues and potentially setting a weekly/fortnightly target.
Griffyn Heels I'd say it's more to be to make progress on tough ones?
quietone For me, nominating an issue doesn't mean that this community agrees it is a target issue. It is very helpful to know what people are working on and keen to finish - I would not want to loose that.
quietone Sort of like triage, we all look at that issue and share ideas over a short time frame. I am thinking the target issue(s) would be the same but over a two week period to consider direction/make patch/consult others. (edited)
Griffyn Heels Maybe as part of this fortnightly meeting I could pull a random tough issue and everyone pitches in with their 2c?
quietone Unless someone objects, I think it would be a useful experiment.
quietone I have been saying issue(s) because I am not sure if there should be two issues in two different areas, to be respectful to a range of talents/interests. The first thought is back end and front end. Not sure if this is a worth doing or not. (edited)
darvanen I find target issues difficult to focus on in a chat stream, they disappear so quickly. What if we had a "bugsmash-target" channel where we kept that separate? Reel in a new target a few days after the last one is finished to give us all a break?
quietone Completely agree!
larowlan could we use lendude's stats page or the initiative page to keep a list of targets
larowlan could list 'current target'
larowlan and 'fixed issues'
darvanen Could. And the issues themselves have space for discussion, of course.
dww The initiative page at one point had a section about target issues, but we didn’t solve the question of what goes on the list, so we ended up removing it. I’d be happy to see it back. Much rather there than on Lendude’s page, so we can all edit as needed, and use [#1234567] syntax. (edited)
Kristen Pol (she/her) I've been confused about target issues so this is a helpful discussion, thanks
lendude Yeah, the stats page would not be the right place to track this, Gitlab pages only support static HTML so any change requires a commit, which isn’t what we want I think, so a page on d.o would be much better
lendude But yeah, what to put on it…..and yeah we could make it random. I don’t think we should limit it to tough issues. (edited)
lendude Because then we need to spend time to define ‘tough’
dww Right. This is basically where we got stuck last time. :wink:
dww At risk of making things too complicated, here's a tentative draft proposal on how this could work. I'm numbering the points to make it easier to comment on them individually (e.g. to remove or amend things, etc).
  1. In #bugsmash meetings, in our 4️⃣ thread on pet issues, anyone can nominate pet issues, including any of the following:
    1. Whatever people are personally motivated to work on and wanting some public accountability / exposure on.
    2. Tricky things that triage uncovered as "That's definitely a bug, but it's a tough one. Let's see if we can move it forward."
    3. A randomly selected critical or major.
    4. Something high priority for another initiative (#d10readiness, #autoupdates, #accessibility, etc).
  2. Any nominated issue that gets 3 or more :heavy_plus_sign: responses is considered a "#bugsmash target" issue and can go on the list
    1. TBD: should this be directly on the initiative page or a child page?
    2. I don't know if "3" is the right minimum here.
    3. Also not sure if people should be able to vote for their own proposals, or if N should be +1 in that case.
    4. Maybe we should gather nominees during the meeting, then run a poll on the next day once the meeting is "closed" and nominations are finished, everyone gets 3 votes, and we pick the top 3 highest votes or something?
  3. We try to select at least 1 critical and 1 major each 2 week period.
  4. We try to select from different subsystems / layers of core.
  5. We try to pick no more than 4 new targets in any given period.
    1. Or we do 2.b and pick the top 3.
  6. We limit ourselves to 20 total open targets at any given time. If issues are still lingering from prior "sprints", we either have to focus on getting them fixed instead of adding new things, or we have to propose a current target to remove if we want to add something to the list.
    1. Maybe this whole point is too complicated.
    2. If we keep it, not sure if 20 is the right limit.
    3. But it seems like a good way to encourage us to follow-through and actually fix the things we agree are a "target".
larowlan This sounds good to me, but I'd add the caveat that rather than limit to 20, and to meetings, we just look for a new one when the previous one is Fixed? So we at most have one critical and one major target?
darvanen Focus fire!
dww FWIW, I'm -1 on a whole separate channel for targets. We have the :dart: symbol already. We can search for that in the channel if we need. We'd also have the initiative page to help keep track of them.
larowlan agree, I think the initiative page is how we focus rather than a new channel
dww I'm open to a smaller limit than 20, for sure, but I think it should be more than 2. I think it'll be most useful with a little variety, so lots of different folks can participate at any moment.
dww If we only have 2, they're both "tough", and both happen to be somewhat obscure corners of core, we could get stuck on those for a long time without much progress. If we have, say, 5-10 to pick from, just about anyone inspired to focus fire on a target could actually meaningfully contribute to at least one of them.
dww I'm not tied to keeping this only happening via meetings, but there's something to be said for it being known and regular when the voting on targets happens...
larowlan yeah that's fair enough, you make some excellent points, I'm convinced :slightly_smiling_face:
dww p.s. Maybe "a chance to vote on new targets" could be a draw to get folks to participate in meetings more often.
dww (In other contexts, "folks who show up to vote" has been the answer to the potentially thorny question of "who gets to vote on X?", e.g. for community groups, bands, political / activist groups I've been involved with, etc).
quietone @dww, very nice proposal! Let's give it a go.Initially concerned that 20 target issues is too high but it has the advantage of providing a range or issues that may encourage someone to participate. I very much like #3.
lendude @dww thanks for the well thought out plan and proposal. Some things I’m tentative about:20 is a lot, if we go for focus, I’d much rather see something like 5, that way we have some real focus. Just thinking that it becomes more a list of ‘things people are working on’ than a focus list. If we want it to be a list of ‘things people are working on’, then this seems fine.The voting. No matter how friendly we all are as a group, I fear voting will lead to discussion and hurt feelings at some point “why is my issue not good enough for you?“, “if this isn’t good enough to get on the list, what criteria does it have to meet to get on the list”, “why do people always vote for XYZ’s issues and never for mine, it’s just a popularity contest” and then people will want to argue why their issue is more important than another issue, and who has time for that? Maybe this won’t happen, but it wouldn’t be the first time it did :shrug:I would go random all the way, random critical, random major, 3 random others, add fresh ones at the meeting, discuss if we need to keep the current targets on the list, or decide that we’ve moved it as far as we can as a group and roll a fresh issue. Or maybe random crit, random major and fill the normals from the daily issues that stay an open bug after triage. No personal connections to the issues, less chance of feelings getting hurt.Anyway, my 2 cents, happy to give @dww’s proposal a go :slightly_smiling_face:

Participants:

larowlan, darvanen, mohit_aghera, jibran, Kristen Pol, lendude, Guilherme Vitoriano Pereira, dww, quietone, Matroskeen, amjad1233, Paulo Henrique Cota Starling, Griffyn Heels

Comments

quietone created an issue. See original summary.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented

From last meeting: Update the version numbers on templates page after Drupal 8 is EOL.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented
Issue summary: View changes
griffynh’s picture

griffynh commented
Issue summary: View changes
griffynh’s picture

griffynh commented
Issue summary: View changes

quietone credited Kristen Pol.

quietone credited amjad1233.

quietone credited darvanen.

quietone credited dww.

quietone credited larowlan.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented

Adding credit

quietone credited Lendude.

quietone credited paulocs.

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quietone commented
griffynh’s picture

griffynh commented
Status: Active » Needs review
darvanen’s picture

darvanen
he/him
Primary language English
Location Sydney, Australia
commented
Issue summary: View changes

Tiny adjustment to replace some soft returns with spaces (they created mailto: links)

darvanen’s picture

darvanen
he/him
Primary language English
Location Sydney, Australia
commented
Status: Needs review » Reviewed & tested by the community

Otherwise looks good to me

darvanen’s picture

darvanen
he/him
Primary language English
Location Sydney, Australia
commented
Status: Reviewed & tested by the community » Needs work

Actually, there are perhaps a couple of credits missing, I would assume because we don't have their d.org username yet.

darvanen’s picture

darvanen
he/him
Primary language English
Location Sydney, Australia
commented
Status: Needs work » Reviewed & tested by the community

Since the criteria for credit is contributing to the meeting rather than just putting your name down in the attendance thread, I can't see any issues here.

quietone’s picture

quietone commented
Status: Reviewed & tested by the community » Fixed

Thanks everyone!

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.