Olivero Meeting 2021-06-21 [#3217683]

Meeting Agenda

Introductions
Status and what's next
Utility CSS classes in Olivero: #3218688: Feature: Add utility classes to Olivero to be used by site-builders
Convert colors to HSL and normalize hues and saturations: #3217924: Olivero: Convert all colors (blues and grays) to HSL and normalize hues and saturations.
Other Issue updates and discussion
Where can people help this week?

Meeting Details

Time: 2pm UTC (10am Eastern)
‬Meeting Location: #olivero channel on drupal.slack.com

Meeting Notes

Hello, welcome to this week’s Front-end theme Olivero meeting!• This meeting happens every other Monday at 2pm UTC (10am ET)• There is no audio or video -- this meeting is chat only• The conversations for this meeting happen in threads0️⃣ If you’re attending this meeting, please let us know here and leave a comment in the meeting agenda issue so we can give you issue credit on d.o.: #3217683: Olivero Meeting 2021-06-21

Sarah Corbine	Here!
hansa11	Hello :wave:
Andy	good morning :wave:
Indrajith KB	Hi...:wave:
Sakthivel	Hello :wave:
mansoor20	Hello everyone :wave:
starshaped (she/her)	Hi!
mherchel	:wave: !
Neslee	Hi :wave:
gaurav mahlawat	:wave::skin-tone-3:
Kunal Kapoor	Hi :wave:
Rkelbel48	Hello! :wave:
AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her)	Hello from California. I’ll be lurking today to see what issues can maybe be brought to DC Colorado, Aug 6-8.
thejimbirch	Hi Hi!
Ganesh Devkate	:wave:
shaal	:blob_wave:

1️⃣ Status and what's next

mtift	This tread is for discussing the overall status of the Olivero initiative and where we're going in broad terms. We'll save specific issue discussions for later threads.
mherchel	Meta issue is at #3177296: [META] Make Olivero stable
mherchel	We don’t have many stable-blocking issues. Of the ones we have:6 RTBC2 Needs Review1 Needs work
mherchel	So, we’re getting really close. Some of these patches will conflict with each other, and need re-rolls when they’re committed, but that’ll happen.
mherchel	I’m hoping to do a mini-sprint with Lauri Eskola this Thursday to get a number committed, and reduce the backlog of RTBC issues
Andy	Not sure if this is the right part of the meeting, but when considering big additions/changes (e.g. the utility class additions) how are those decisions ultimately made? Do maintainers seek input and then make a unilateral decision or is there some other mechanism?
mherchel	I also have a meeting later this afternoon with some product managers and committers to go over what needs to happen after we stable, but before it can be the default theme
mherchel	Not sure if this is the right part of the meeting, but when considering big additions/changes (e.g. the utility class additions) how are those decisions ultimately made? Do maintainers seek input and then make a unilateral decision or is there some other mechanism?Its a community thing now. And the maintainers don’t have full control as we do in contrib. Ultimately the decision comes down to the core committers, but they try to get consensus prior to committing anything
mherchel	I have a meeting point to talk about that issue today FWIW

2️⃣ Utility CSS classes in Olivero

mtift	#3218688: Feature: Add utility classes to Olivero to be used by site-builders
mherchel	So, if you’re not familiar with that issue, I’d like to get your feedback on it.
mherchel	the tl;dr is that I’d like to add some utility classes that make it easier for site-builders to make things look good in views, layout builder styles, and all other modules that enable you to add css styles
mherchel	it would be an optional setting to load this stylesheet and not enabled by default
mherchel	the utility classes would be extremely granular (similar to Tailwind)
mherchel	With the goal being minimal maintenance
mherchel	Any questions or thoughts? I’d love it if people could throw their thoughts (either for or against or in the middle) into the issue queue too :smile:
mherchel	:cricket:
mtift	I think it's a good idea :slightly_smiling_face: Anyone else reading this?
Andy	:raised_hand:
Andy	I think i’ve made my opinions pretty well known - I wouldn’t say I’m against it just that I have some concerns
Andy	Is there any sort of precedent in this area from any part of drupal core?
mherchel	@Andy did I address your concerns in the issue?
mherchel	Is there any sort of precedent in this area from any part of drupal core?There’s more full-fledged utility classes such as button and button--primary. Not sure if there’s more than that
mherchel	clearfix :man-shrugging:
Andy	Yeah. I think my biggest remaining thought is “how much use will this get”. Are there a lot of people that use the default theme and need that sort of granular customization support?
Andy	You know? Like you can change the padding values of a view in bartick, but it’s definitely still bartick.
thejimbirch	There are plenty of sites that use the Bootstrap theme and are very bootstrappy.
thejimbirch	My assumption is that it could get used by site builders and low budget sites.
Rkelbel48	I think this is a good idea in theory, working with site builders now, I know these types of utility classes are things we will create for them now.I appreciate this adding value and likely will give it more use. I also appreciate this being a separate stylesheet you optionally turn on, certainly not everyone will need it so that’s a great way to dissuade concerns of unneeded styles or performance impact. (edited)
thejimbirch	I think it would need to be very well documented though, not only the CSS elements, but which modules to use to implement.
Andy	:point_up: Probably could add a help page or help_topics pages here
Rkelbel48	I agree :point_up: documentation for the classes and there usage is key.
mherchel	My assumption is that it could get used by site builders and low budget sites.Yeah, but that’s Olivero in general. Higher budget sites will always have custom themes
mherchel	Anyway, if you all haven’t commented in the issue yet, please do so now!

3️⃣ Convert colors to HSL and normalize hues and saturations: #3217924: Olivero: Convert all colors (blues and grays) to HSL and normalize hues and saturations.

mtift	We've got a larger-than-usual agenda, so continuing forward...
mherchel	So, not sure there needs to be too much discussion on this, but :point_up: is an issue to refactor the colors to use hsl().
mherchel	This will result in slightly changed colors, but tbh its not noticeable unless you’re switching back and forth in between pages with the different versions of the colors
Andy	This will be great to have for color customization in the future.
mherchel	But, its really cool, because when D10 comes along, we’ll be able to easily change the hues and everything will fall in line
mherchel	This will be great to have for color customization in the future.Exactly!
mherchel	I also will have a couple followup issues to consolidate the grays and rename some variables (to use primary instead of blue namespace)

4️⃣ Other Issue updates and discussion

mtift	This thread is the place to bring up specific issues that need some extra discussion
Andy	How’s the test issue going?
Andy	Still roadblocked by help topics?
mtift	Yep
Indrajith KB	#3210918: Olivero: Edit article content image field alignment missing#comment-14091829Please see the #15.
mtift	The help topics issue is RTBC, so that's good (edited)
mherchel	I’d love to get our end of the testing issue reviewed. So when it gets committed, they can move on to us
mherchel	@Indrajith KB I want to make sure that’s still an issue after this one gets committed. I haven’t checked yet #3173008: [Code Review] wide image within article template a reusable component/class
mherchel	We’re refactoring the image into BEM style classes, and I think it might be fixed there. I’ll comment in that issue

5️⃣ Where can people help this week?

mtift	Offer up your suggestions here
mtift	Anyone?
mherchel	bueller (1 MB)https://media0.giphy.com/media/yar6rQxkoLLqM/giphy-downsized.gif?cid=610... using /giphy
mtift	Just curious. If you are still participating in this meeting, please give this comment a thumbs up :slightly_smiling_face:
Andy	Assuming this means we’re in a good place for core inclusion and that people should start looking at other lower-level issues!
mherchel	We’re pretty caught up on everything right now, and waiting on some core committer attention. When that happens, they’ll undoubtedly catch some stuff that will need additional work
mtift	Yeah, no suggestions could be a good thing :slightly_smiling_face:

Participants:

Sarah Corbine, hansa11, Andy, Indrajith KB, Sakthivel, mansoor20, starshaped (she/her), mherchel, Neslee, gaurav mahlawat, Kunal Kapoor, Rkelbel48, AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her), thejimbirch, Ganesh Devkate, shaal, mtift