Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 9 November 2020 [#3181541]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3181541`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

shaal	Ofer Shaal, Florida :sunglasses: :hurricane:(Drupal Rector, Umami)
andypost	Andy, :zzz:
hestenet (he/him)	Tim Lehnen (Portland, OR) DA eng team
xjm	:wave: xjm :sunny:
mikelutz (he/him)	Hi all
greg.1.anderson	:wave: g1a
Jared Smith	Jared Smith (Fredericksburg, VA) Long time lurker, lurking again after a long hiatus
mradcliffe	Matthew, US. Reading up on things.
hansa11	Hansa, India :wave:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Gábor, Hungary :slightly_smiling_face:
catch	Nat, UK, fifteen hours late but reading through.
bircher	Hi, Fabian Bircher, very late to the discussion too :see_no_evil:

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate

2️⃣ High level status (not for discussion, see threads to discuss)

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	9.1.0-beta1 is out :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The biggest move “for Drupal 10” is near PHP 8 compatibility, see 3️⃣
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	CKEditor 5 only moved a tiny bit, see 4️⃣

3️⃣ PHP 8 compatibility is close!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3109885: [meta] Ensure compatibility of Drupal 9 with PHP 8.0 (as it evolves) is tracking our issues
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks @alexpott, @andypost and others for tireless work on these issues within Drupal and even more so upstream.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3181240: Upgrade typo3/phar-stream-wrapper 3.1.6 landed earlier today
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	so we are down to Laminas releases happening and updates
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	that is the only remaining piece
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	that is #3180207: Update laminas-diactoros, laminas-escaper and laminas-feed for PHP 8 compatibility
alexpott	We also need a selenium2 driver release
alexpott	I asked stof again today
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	ah yeah we have https://github.com/minkphp/MinkSelenium2Driver/pull/320 as well, @alexpott do we have a d.o issue yet?
alexpott	Not that I know of
andypost	#3180207: Update laminas-diactoros, laminas-escaper and laminas-feed for PHP 8 compatibility Is the only blocker to declare compatibility?This week the last rc4 will out https://wiki.php.net/todo/php80
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost no, see above, Mink Selenium driver
andypost	Irrc we can use specific commit to point in dev require of composer for mink
xjm	I asked to do that for Laminas as well but there was a lot of pushback
xjm	I guess it's less of an annoyance for a dev dependency
xjm	But the Laminas compatibility is going to be solved in a minor release only, so that means we can't officially be fully compatible until 9.2.0. We can add documentation to the page that 9.1.0 is compatible if you ignore platform requirements or use a (non-dev) tarball for your site
xjm	And probably the same to the 9.1.0 release notes
andypost	Not so long ago laminas used to be renamed, but no alternative been suggested
andypost	I guess deprecate laminas before 9.2 is better goal
xjm	Uh wait, what?
xjm	We rely on a number of their components as production dependencies. Zend was renamed to Laminas.
xjm	Are you thinking of the Doctrine issue?
xjm	Or is there a particular Laminas component that's being EOLed that I missed?
alexpott	There are alternatives for diactoros - but I’ve not found anything obvious for laminas feed
andypost	I mean laminas because their release cycles is hard to wire with core
xjm	We looked into replacing Diactoros pre-D9 but determined that Diactoros still best met our needs at that time
xjm	Have they documented a new release cycle since they were Zend? Zend Diactoros had LTSes but as of D9 they hadn't announced a new release schedule for Laminas
andypost	For example ~8.0.0 requirement in composer
andypost	https://github.com/laminas/laminas-diactoros/pull/46#discussion_r517414764 is great tldr
alexpott	They have automated releases the moment all release milestones are met - I think. But yeah the fixing on minor releases makes things very tricky - I tried to ask them to reconsider but it looks like a no.
andypost	Btw this pr changes exception but fits in their minor, which incompatible with core's BC promising
xjm	Heh, skimming this, they also are being unfriendly, which is another reason to consider deprecating Diactoros in favor of a friendlier version. But it'd have to be a D10 change. (Edited for transcript.) (edited)
xjm	Do we have an issue to discuss deprecating their components? We had an issue to discuss replacing Diactoros last time around, but I can't find it for whatever reason
andypost	#3104015: Replace ZendFramework/* dependencies with their Laminas equivalents guess it
xjm	No this was a policy issue about replacing Diactoros with a different PSR-7 implementation
xjm	Filed in 2019
xjm	Or possibly 2018 even
xjm	#3047294: Switch to symfony/http-client
xjm	(Dug it out of the DAT JIRA board)
xjm	See also #3039047: Adopt php-http/guzzle6-adapter 2.x to get PSR-18 support without losing Guzzle's async support
xjm	I haven't really been maintaining the D10 issue tree but maybe we should make this a child of #3118154: [meta] Deprecate dependencies, libraries, modules, and themes that will be removed from Drupal 10 core by 9.4.0-beta1 again
andypost	Looks guzzle and http-client needs more attention, but it's huge topic
alexpott	fwiw once there is a stable release of all the code that is in https://github.com/guzzle/psr7 main branch (ie. https://github.com/guzzle/psr7/issues/327) then we can swap out core’s diactoros based implementation for guzzle’s and then we can deprecate diactoros without adding any new dependencies.
mixologic	they also are being unfriendlyTimes like these I wax nostalgic about the good ol’ days of island living.
dww	Yeah, as much as we gain, we also pay a heavy price for "proudly found elsewhere"...
catch	+1 on opening an issue to move away from Laminas. It's not urgent at the moment but if we start thinking about it now, it might never become urgent.
andypost	@catch it's #3039047: Adopt php-http/guzzle6-adapter 2.x to get PSR-18 support without losing Guzzle's async support just not clear why guzzle, because symfony client does the same now
bircher	I read the discussions on github and yes, going forward the release cycle, version policy and attitudes about compatibility with future versions seem to be more important than the features.What a shame that php8 in 9.1 might be held up by release cycles and policies of upstream libraries.
catch	@andypost reading the discussion it looks like it's because there's already a guzzle adapter, whereas symfony http client you have to choose between a browser that supports async and a PSR-18 browser that doesn't.
andypost	Filed patch for escaper #3180207: Update laminas-diactoros, laminas-escaper and laminas-feed for PHP 8 compatibility#comment-13906410 (edited)

4️⃣ CKEditor 5 support

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There is very little progress since our last meeting on #2966864: Add optional support for CKEditor 5 in D9 so we can remove CKE 4 from Drupal 10
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I heard @lauriii say before that the CK team started working on dynamic plugability, which is one of our biggest outstanding limitations from CKEditor, but I did not find that issue to reference.
lauriii	Here’s link https://github.com/ckeditor/ckeditor5/issues/8395
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Hm, I did find that one, but it was not clear that is actually covering this. After all, we’d need it to be added without building :smile:
andypost	Getting reproducible build is great for releases
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost this is about reproducing the clickable input format configuration where you configure your ckeditor plugin to use
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	also @Taran2L was planning to create a contrib module that would be cutting some corners but he did not (yet?) come around to it https://www.drupal.org/project/ckeditor5

5️⃣ Symfony 5/6 compatibility

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Symfony 4 deprecations (for 5 compatibility) were already completed earlier.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility awaits to be broken down to individual issues
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	help there would be welcome :slightly_smiling_face:
andypost	Moreover few 5beta dependencies already in core
andypost	[#3096781]Is more 9.1 related but affects

6️⃣ jQuery UI component deprecations

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	META issue at #3067261: [Plan] Remove jQuery UI components used by Drupal core and replace with a set of supported solutions
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@bnjmnm is heavily working on #3076171: Provide a new library to replace jQuery UI autocomplete and would need some reviews :slightly_smiling_face:

7️⃣ Starterkit

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	This would ideally be a major goal for Drupal 10 but other than @lauriii introducing the topic at DrupalCon Global and opening #3050384: Provide a starterkit theme in core it did not yet pick up contributors
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The starterkit would allow to make markup improvements and fixes without disrupting existing sites, as sites would use a “fork” of the starterkit theme rather than a live version of a base theme.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	also more discussion in #3050378: [meta] Replace Classy with a starterkit theme
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	the DrupalCOn session is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp0bVnCs0R8&ab_channel=DrupalAssociation
xjm	We could really use some help to get this off the ground, especially from anyone who cares and is knowledgeable about the theme layer :heart:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	added the session video to the Classy issue at least since that has some following
lauriii	I’m happy to help folks get started if anyone is interested in working on this

8️⃣ Upgrade Status 8.x-3.0 is out :slightly_smiling_face:

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Its really cool (but I am biased :D). Check it out https://www.drupal.org/project/upgrade_status/releases/8.x-3.0
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	it comes with a whole new UI that is action oriented instead of just dumping you a bunch of data and letting you figure it out
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://www.drupal.org/files/project-images/UpgradeStatus3FullUI.png
Matroskeen	It looks great, thanks!

9️⃣ Issue forks and merge requests will be generally available on all projects TOMORROW :slightly_smiling_face:

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	while this is not directly Drupal 10 news, it will affect core issues as well as any project’s issues
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	more info at #3152637: Opt-in to the Drupal.org Issue Forks and Merge Requests beta
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	maybe @hestenet (he/him) has more info :slightly_smiling_face:
hestenet (he/him)	Certainly I can answer any questions!
hestenet (he/him)	I'm writing up the change record now.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The CKEditor 5 core issue already uses this feature BTW.
hestenet (he/him)	As a general reminder: While this will give you access to a shared fork/workspace in GitLab and the ability to use Merge Requests - you can also still use the old patch workflow.So anyone who has work in-progress using patches and doesn't want to be immediately disrupted can certainly still finish off their current work that way.
xjm	Also of note for core: #3178845: Run same checks as committers do on DrupalCI
xjm	(Currently committers run these on commit, so we would have to do a local squash to run them on the merge request issues) (edited)
xjm	I can't remember if there are instructions in the UI or not for it
drumm	There are no core-specific instructions in the UI.
drumm	(on Drupal.org)
xjm	@drumm I meant generic instructions about how to commit the merge request on the CLI
xjm	GitHub has them
drumm	Ah, GitLab does have manual merge instructions, that are complex and for merging, not squash committing.
xjm	Yah so we would just need to make sure that committers append the squash flag and possibly --no-commit
xjm	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Do you have a link to the CKE issue handy?
drumm	The “plain diff” link, that’s a simple patch for the merge request.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@xjm was in 4️⃣ :slightly_smiling_face: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014CT1CN1M/p1604949750277000?thread_t...
drumm	One thing is that any method of doing a basic commit doesn’t give GitLab enough metadata to know that the commit is really merging a merge request. It won’t mark the merge request as merged.
xjm	Hmm, if so, we need to prioritize #3178845: Run same checks as committers do on DrupalCI -- /cc @mixologic
mixologic	The other option is for core committers to download the MR patch and continue to commit patches until this can be resolved.
drumm	That’s the plain diff link.
mixologic	Yeah, thats the more techincal term for what I said.
mixologic	er precise..
drumm	Even though GitLab won’t mark it as merged, it can be marked as closed. Slightly less rewarding, but works fine.
mixologic	yeah, i.e. as a temporary solution.
xjm	Ah OK
xjm	Can we add instructions to https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/docs/gitlab-integration/issue-forks-mer... on merging and closing?
xjm	It discusses working on the MRs but not actually merging them
drumm	Yeah, I should update that.
drumm	Another option would be to push any last changes to the issue fork’s branch, then use the merge UI in the issue’s credit & committing fieldset.
mixologic	Thats a nice way to do it.
mixologic	at least until it can be automated

🔟 Composer 2 support

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	What are people’s experiences so far? All good? :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	core has #3179061: Further discuss use of "prefer-stable" and "minimum-stability" in core but that should not affect people using composer 2 on their sites (since you are not using alpha core versions on sites, right?)
shaal	Composer 2... soooo fast!
shaal	Do we have d.o documentation for people who want to upgrade their project to support composer2?
shaal	After I tweeted https://twitter.com/shaal/status/1320218135404957696?s=20
shaal	I learned that composer-drupal-optimizations is no longer needed
shaal	also hirak/prestissimo (global composer plugin, that download pacakges in parallel) is no longer needed when using composer 2
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I believe @mixologic started to draft a doc page.
bircher	@mixologic is there a link to that page? ie one that can be collaborated on editing?
xjm	@shaal There is a page yes
xjm	It should be linked from the CR, one mo
xjm	https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/using-composer/preparing-your-site-f... via the release notes -> CR link (edited)
shaal	Thank you!

1️⃣ 1️⃣ DrupalCon Europe is in 4 weeks!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	if you did not yet buy your ticket, now would be a good time :slightly_smiling_face: https://events.drupal.org/europe2020
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I’m presenting https://events.drupal.org/europe2020/sessions/drupal-10-initiative-here-...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	there are also sessions about the auto-updates work, two on Olivero, one on PHP 8, one about CMI2, etc.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	BoF submissions are also open for ticket holders: https://events.drupal.org/europe2020/bof-birds-feather-sessions
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	we hope to form a few contribution groups as well on various Drupal 10 topics :slightly_smiling_face: