The 2026 Drupal Business Survey is open. Your response will help shape the future of the Drupal business ecosystem.Meeting will happen in #config on drupal.slack.com.
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Hello and welcome to this CMI 2.0 meeting!
This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have an interest in advancing the configuration management capabilities of Drupal.
➤ Usually happens every other Tuesday at 16:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3136226`
➤*Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.
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Ping @bircher @alexpott @diosbelmezquia @mtodor @ricardoamaro @borisson @jcandan @marcvangend @Kingdutch @phenaproxima @balsama @wouter @mikemadison (Edit https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3170190 if you do or don't want to be pinged, or want to add topics for next time.)
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0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.
| bircher | I am here! welcome again! |
| alexpott | :wave: hello from New Malden, UK, said to be one of the most densely populated areas of Koreans outside South Korea. |
| borisson_ | :wave: I am here as well. |
| Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) | Heyo! |
| maria.fisher | Hello! Maria here from Portland OR. |
| moshe | Hiya |
| Wan | Hey, Wan here, just lurking around. Also want to say config management is one of my most favourite features in drupal :blue_heart: |
| mikemadison | :wave: Mike Madison from Acquia is here! sorry I'm running late |
| carolpettirossi | Hey, Carol here. I'm from São Paulo, Brazil but work for an Australian company (Prosple). Usually online in "crazy hours" |
1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we'll open threads for them as appropriate.
| bircher | anyone wants to do a call via google hangouts? |
| Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) | Any immediate goals for the next 5 weeks )(before 9.1 alpha?) |
| moshe | i dont need a Hangout but am happy to jump on if anyone wants to talk |
| carolpettirossi | Is there an idea to also add config_ignore to core? Or is this only for config_split? |
| carolpettirossi | Sorry. Just noticed thread number 5 |
| bircher | @carolpettirossi the problem with config_ignore is that it is a very sharp tool and it is not clear how to make it so you can not easily hurt yourself with it... |
| carolpettirossi | Yeah. I agree. But it would be awesome to have smt in core to ignore configs like webforms, metatag defaults, blocks, menus.. Things that editors usually change on production. |
| bircher | yes I know, in Darmstadt we discussed that it would be cool to have some of the config with different backends like menu items, but more generic (edited) |
2️⃣ Re-start of CMI 2 meetings
| bircher | So some new ideas simmered on how we can get back to getting some code to happen: we commit all the things to Config Split and then make a "mini config split" for core.. |
| moshe | Sounds great to me |
| borisson_ | mini config split sounds good. Will current config split extend from that? |
| alexpott | Does this include the config environment module functionality with the UI? |
| bircher | yes my idea is to add the UI that config_environment would need to config split |
| bircher | #3170680: [meta] Add features which serve as a proof of concept for config_environment in core |
| bircher | in particular this would mean a UI to "enable and disable" a split, ie switching environments |
| alexpott | I think developing the config environment module outside of core to begin with is a good idea. It’ll allow for a more rapid turn around. |
| alexpott | I worry that making it part of config split will make it hard to disentangle when we put stuff in core. |
| bircher | I agree! but how can we be sure that it will get enough eyes on it so that we don't architect something that then has no chance to get in? |
| borisson_ | I think that we have a bunch of good brains already here - if we have design something together it shouldn't be too offensive? |
| alexpott | I’m not too concerned about code. I think one thing given we intend to create a UI will to get feedback from the UX and accessibility teams. |
| bircher | yes that was the idea with the "mini config split" |
| bircher | the UI makes sense for Config Split too independently of what goes into core |
| alexpott | @bircher how do you envisage the development working? Are you going to take the work you’ve do already - roll it into config_split and then ask for review here? |
| bircher | yes I think that would be the easiest |
| bircher | as a first step |
| bircher | then we create a github/gitlab config_environment for the actual code we will want to put in core |
| alexpott | How about a module inside config split - so the separation is there from the start? |
| bircher | hmm interesting, but i am not sure it could then be the same name |
3️⃣ next steps, picking up where we left off, new plans
| bircher | let me find the issues we were creating before, we may have to go through them and change some |
| bircher | #3033427: [plan] Add support for environment-specific configuration |
| bircher | I linked to that issue from the config split issue, I think it is still relatively accurate, then once we have something to look at we can update the issues and add patches etc |
4️⃣ Immediate goals for the next 5 weeks
| bircher | as requested by @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
| bircher | I think we will not add anything to Drupal 9.1 in the next 5 weeks, though the plan is to have an alpha version of config_environment |
| Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) | That would be great :slightly_smiling_face: |
| alexpott | I feel we should address #3102435: Config exclude Drupal core feature doesn't work (Drupal 8.8.1 or later) some how. I’m not sure how though. Because the exclude thing is the big thing we’ve delivered and it confuses people atm. |
| alexpott | @bircher byalpha version of config_environmentyou mean in the config_split module - right? |
| bircher | yes |
| bircher | to both! the issue you linked is probably a bug fix so maybe even for previous versions of core too |
| bircher | yes alpha version not in core, but as a module people can play with and give us feedback |
| maria.fisher | Is the next step in issue 3102435 just improving the documentation? I'd be happy to attempt that! |
| bircher | That is a good question! |
| alexpott | @maria.fisher that’d certainly help. I think we can do that to fix the bug. And then have a follow-up to discuss if we want it to work the way people (other than the person who wrote the code :wink: ) expect it to. |
| maria.fisher | Awesome -- does it make sense to add a link to https://www.drupal.org/node/3169963 in the example.settings.local.php file, or is that frowned upon? |
| alexpott | It’s frowned to link to issues, but this is further documentation. So I think that is okay. I think we need to review https://www.drupal.org/node/3169963 and add it to the menu. And maybe get a nicer URL (edited) |
| bircher | by writing that documentation page I realised that we could do more fancy transformations and make the config as if the module was uninstalled, but that adds quite a bit of complexity |
5️⃣ Config exclude Drupal core feature doesn't work
| bircher | #3102435: Config exclude Drupal core feature doesn't work (Drupal 8.8.1 or later) |
| bircher | what do users expect? |
| mikemadison | i would expect, similar to config ignore module's behavior, that if something is "excluded" that it doesn't get dumped out with a drush cex |
| mikemadison | a little different for sure in this case since it's excluding the "module" and not a "specific config" item, but in this case if devel was excluded i would expect that:devel doesn't go into core.extensions.ymlno devel config files get exported |
| bircher | I would say it automates:uninstalling the dev moduleexport configinstall dev module againimport configinstall dev module again |
| bircher | @mikemadison that is what it does already and it works (with drush 10 only) |
| mikemadison | :slightly_smiling_face: |
| mikemadison | excellent |
| bircher | the question is what do you expect if the devel module is in the sync config already |
| mikemadison | i would expect it to stop syncing, personally |
| bircher | currently it imports that and then sees that there is noting further to do on import |
| bircher | ah but stopping to sync is a good point! |
| bircher | I would agree with that too |
| mikemadison | again, i'm basing my experience on config ignore and i realize this isn't a direct 1-1 experience |
| mikemadison | but config ignore basically just stops the sync from doing anything with ignored content. no export, no import, etc. |
| mikemadison | so if you do that, you're on your on to manage it. |
| mikemadison | (e.g. that config is basically "content" now) |
| bircher | yes that is the third solution |
| bircher | so:1) import config as it is in sync2) import config taking the active config (ie config_ignore)3) bail out and say the config is bad because it includes excluded modules |
| maria.fisher | Is it not confusing to have a file in your config folder that doesn't do anything on some environments? |
| maria.fisher | (I haven't used config_ignore. Maybe it warns you in some way?) |
| mikemadison | it doesn't really. |
| mikemadison | so yes, it is confusing. |
| mikemadison | although, hopefully you aren't using config ignore for really complex config. you "can" but "shouldn't" |
| bircher | config_ignore does not warn you it just makes the config behave like content, very dangerous if configured incorrectly, very convenient if you are not strict with what is supposed to be config and what not (edited) |
| maria.fisher | Ah, tricky! |
| mikemadison | yeah. i usually strongly recommend not doing more than ignoring a few, simple config keys (edited) |
| bircher | yea blocks and webforms |
| mikemadison | heh i try to not even do that if i can avoid it |
| mikemadison | i'm thinking more like site name, or front page, on multisite platforms |
| mikemadison | so that i don't have to do site splits |
| bircher | yes that is a sane approach in my opinion |
| mikemadison | having said that though, i think the notion of config ignore is a great one (i just think that the lack of guard rail makes it quite dangerous and confusing, to both of your points) |
| maria.fisher | I personally like the idea of removing all the simple config when you exclude a module, to avoid that confusion. And as I understand it that's what should happen now if you do a drush cex on drush 10+ after having added a new entry to the $settings['config_exclude_modules'] . But I think it'd be fine to ignore it but maybe warn people "you have config that is being ignored" so they could choose to go delete it if they wished. |
| mikemadison | yeah. it would be REALLY nice if the config imports would "work" in that case. one of the major drawbacks of config ignore is that if you have ignored config, it's still in your active configuration. so if you do a config diff with drush it shows the config as missing (which means you likely have to keep a file in your config sync to "pass" a config diff) |
| maria.fisher | Or maybe I did misunderstand and the config is only not ever exported, not deleted? |
| maria.fisher | Ohh, interesting |
| bircher | on export the things that should not be exported (ie for this core feature all the config belonging to an excluded module) are deleted from the sync storage |
| mikemadison | here's a dumb question though... if i config exclude node |
| mikemadison | is it going to delete ALL the entity config? |
| mikemadison | (well, all the fields, entity displays, views, etc.) related to node? |
| bircher | yes |
| mikemadison | i mean, on the one hand, cool! on the other. youch. |
| bircher | yea.. all of those things are then also not part of the zip you can download |
| mikemadison | right. yeah. obviously "you shouldn't do that." lol |
| bircher | and you can then no longer import that config if your site has nodes and node is not excluded on the target |
| bircher | I mean yea.. you can also add a syntax error to your settings.php file.. it is your site after all. |
| mikemadison | fair point. |
| bircher | we discussed this at some drupalcon and we concluded that the config import does all the validation |
| bircher | so if you exclude too much the config can just not be imported any more and you don't actually break your site |
Participants:
bircher, alexpott, borisson_, Gábor Hojtsy, maria.fisher, moshe, Wan, mikemadison, carolpettirossi
Comments
Comment #2
bircherWe decided to put regular meetings on hiatus.
We will announce on slack in #config before we are taking the meetings up again.
Feel free to add yourself to the ping list if you would like to get notified.
Comment #3
bircherWe decided to move the meeting to Tuesdays
Comment #4
bircherComment #6
quietone commentedComment #14
quietone commentedComment #16
quietone commentedComment #17
bircher