Meeting - Contributor Guide Update - 5 May 2020

This meeting is on 5 May 2020 at 16:00 UTC** in the #documentation channel on Drupal Slack. This meeting is text-only, no audio or video, and is asynchronous so everyone can join in as they're available for about 24 hours. After that we'll capture notes from the threads.

Agenda - please feel free to edit this to add items!

Hello and welcome to the Getting Involved Guide Meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Usually happens on alternate Tuesdays at 16:00 UTC
➤ is text only!
➤ happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ has a public agenda issue anyone can add to.
➤ :star: Meeting transcripts are still a work in progress, but please comment on the meeting agenda issue so we can grant you credit for attending/contributing!

:zero: *Roll Call!*
Who’s here today? Comment in the thread below if you’d like to introduce yourself and share what you've been cooking lately.

:one: Status update on the new Contributor Guide section (replacement for Getting Involved Guide section).
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3089403

:two: Headers, tabs, and breadcrumbs for the Community section as a whole
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3115701

:three: *Anything Else?*: What else do we need to talk about?

That’s all for now!

The discussions continue in the threads! Please feel free to chime in within the next 24 hours to be captured in the meeting notes. Thank you very much to everyone for attending, learning, and contributing!

Meeting Transcript

jhodgdon (she/her)May 5th at 9:04 AM
:zero: *Roll Call!*
 Who’s here today? Comment in the thread below if you’d like to introduce yourself and share what you've been cooking lately.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Jennifer, homemade pizza (making crust and sauce from scratch)

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Rachel, UK, made a shakshuka the other day - lovely!!!

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
What is a shakshuka?

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
We are so lucky to have you, @jhodgdon (she/her)!!

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Likewise!

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/shakshuka (on BBC GoodFood webite - built in Drupal!)
BBC Good FoodBBC Good Food
Shakshuka(opens in new tab)
Try something different for a weekend breakfast, brunch or supper. We have various twists on the classic North African dish of spiced poached eggs.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Sounds good if you like eggs! :)

joshmiller(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Hello :) Checking this meeting out for the first time. Thanks to Acro for funding my participation.I've been cleaning, not cooking! Thank heavens! My wife does all the cooking, but I keep the kitchen clean. On some days, this equates to three dishwasher loads. We meal prep, so it's pretty common to get 4-5 meals, each with 2-3 days of left over potential all made at once.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Wow - how many people are you feeding??? Also, welcome!

joshmiller(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Instead of how many :slightly_smiling_face: Here's a link to our current favorite You Tube chef ... he uploads all sorts of awesome "how to"s with a "one take" approach (mistakes usually make the cut) (edited) 

AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her)(opens in new tab)  1 day ago
Good day, very late today. I haven't tuned in for awhile and was curious of the state of progress.
I am tuning in from northern California, we have been doing a lot of Chicken Soup

------------------------

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab) May 5th at 9:06 AM
:one: Status update on the new Contributor Guide section (replacement for Getting Involved Guide section).
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3089403
Drupal.orgDrupal.org
Create content types and content for a new Getting Involved section(opens in new tab)
Problem/Motivation There are many roles in the Drupal contributor community that make it work successfully; be they code contributors, project maintainers, documenters, marketers, project managers, event organisers, event volunteers, speakers, or any of those I can't think of right now! We do not, however, have a canonical place where somebody new to the community and looking to increase their involvement can browse the possible roles and understand which roles are there #3091381: Create a list of all roles, skills, responsibilities in the drupal community what the role involves
Oct 22nd, 2019

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Good news!! Engineering are scheduled to be working on implementing the changes @jhodgdon (she/her) built this month. Probably this actual week or next week. (edited) 

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
great!

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I have one new item on status but it's a separate agenda item, coming in 3... 2.... 1....

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I must admit, I have been reluctant to move on to the next stages until I see this ready for use. I think it is the right decision to wait, still.

drumm(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
This week has been a mess so far. I’ll probably start by picking off some of the smaller related issues, like the next agenda item.

drumm(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
My very brief last initial visual review was that  some spacing/etc could be improved, I had a hard time making sense of the page without really reading it. For example, depending on how the HTML is built, <hr> tags could be a better separator than new bottom borders.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
ok we can look at that again.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Does anyone have time to go through the proposed pages for Contributor Guide with me and take a look at the visual styling? I can make needed changes but deciding on a better UI design and style are not my strong points.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
yes - again, put some time in my diary

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Done, we will meet on Thursday, one hour before the time of this meeting. If anyone else would like to join us, please comment on this thread and let us know.

joshmiller(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I looked at the example website that Rachel posted in #mentoring ... my opinion is that this is a great first step. I do shy away from "content type all the things" solutions in my own website building, but I like the data structure. Once it's in place, perhaps we can tweak the design further as well.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Getting things changed on drupal.org is painful, so if you have comments, suggestions, or suggested tweaks, it would be very helpful to have them now rather than later.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 minutes ago
@drumm @rachel_norfolk or anyone else interested: I made changes to the styling, with advice from Rachel. Links to pages to review are at https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3089403#comment-13602856 -- please take a look and either suggest further improvements or RTBC if possible? Thanks!
Drupal.orgDrupal.org
Create content types and content for a new Getting Involved section(opens in new tab)
Problem/Motivation There are many roles in the Drupal contributor community that make it work successfully; be they code contributors, project maintainers, documenters, marketers, project managers, event organisers, event volunteers, speakers, or any of those I can't think of right now! We do not, however, have a canonical place where somebody new to the community and looking to increase their involvement can browse the possible roles and understand which roles are there #3091381: Create a list of all roles, skills, responsibilities in the drupal community what the role involves
Oct 22nd, 2019

--------------------------------------------

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab) May 5th at 9:09 AM
:two: Headers, tabs, and breadcrumbs for the Community section as a whole
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3115701
Drupal.orgDrupal.org
Community section headers/breadcrumbs could be nicer(opens in new tab)
Pages under the Community section currently have headers/breadcrumbs that look like this example: They could be nicer... It would be nice if where it says Drupal TM in the header, it had the section name instead ("Community"), and thus the breadcrumbs could be shorter (omit home / community from the list). So a page might look more like this:
Feb 24th

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
This issue was spun off of the effort to build content types for the new Contributor Guide.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
The pain point is that the headers and breadcrumbs and navigation in the Community section are inconsistent and in some places quite bad.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
For example:

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
https://www.drupal.org/community/agency-marketing/promotedrupal take a look at that breadcrumb -- it goes through Community twice!
Drupal.orgDrupal.org
Promote Drupal(opens in new tab)
Drupal is more than just a project—it's a worldwide brand, and we're lucky to have an engaged community to help foster and grow the Drupal brand through professional and impactful marketing content.  This is where that content is built—and you can help!  Promote Drupal Initiative has one main purpose: to create business marketing materials targeted to the decision-makers who choose to adopt Drupal for their business.
Aug 28th, 2018(39 kB)

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
oh

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
and the header should say Community on it, like the way it says Documentation if you are on any docs page.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
A bunch of pages have these lame tabs on them like https://www.drupal.org/forum that take you to the old Getting Involved pages and IRC chat page

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
What I'd like to do is revamp the headers completely.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
(a) I would like all the headers in the Community section to have a big word Community at the top.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
(b) I would like them all to have breadcrumbs, omitting home > community because that would be covered by the Community header (which would link to /community).

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
(c) I would like to get rid of the lame tabs that you see on /forums completely

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
thoughts?

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
hmm  - I think I want to spend more time on this.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I think I want to get rid of forums. Like completely

hansfn(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I raised my opinion in the issue. There is plenty of room for improvement :-)

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Yes, the current forums are lame, but we don't have a replacement either? and there is some information buried in them that has never been extracted into docs pages.

drumm(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
The “lame tabs” (really they are “section tabs” or “section navigation”) are definitely lame, they are basically technical debt at this point. I’ve been removing them whenever I have a chance to.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
yes they are outdated. glad you are trying to get rid of them. So we can use this issue to get rid of them within Community at least.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
and substitute breadcrumbs

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
does that sound OK? I didn't want to work on a patch unless we were all OK with getting rid of those tabs and having breadcrumbs instead.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
a lot of this makes sense

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
right now I don't want to try to do more than just the Community section with this one issue.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
we should raise them each as issues but link to a plan issue

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Let's see how Community goes? Documentation is already mostly OK although there are some breadcrumb hiccups.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Really, we don’t want “Getting Involved Guide” to appear as a machine link anywhere now

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
right.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Remove rather than replace

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
right.

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I’m sold

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
OK great! Any other thoughts @hansfn and @drumm or should I just forge ahead?

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
You are on a mission!

hansfn(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
No. Any improvement is good :-)

joshmiller(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Not to poke a hornet's nest ... but the issue outlines an approach without defining the purpose. If I were reviewing this as merge request internally, I would not let work start until the purpose (goal) is clearly defined outside of the approach (how to meet the goal). What is the problem we're trying to solve? A general UX guideline is to not change navigation mechanisms between sections of the site. In this case, we're proposing to remove a logo and modify a breadcrumb. All without what seems like a solid reason why.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Fair point. The purpose is to have the Community section have unified navigation, the way that the Documentation section does now.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Right now within the Community section it is a mess.

joshmiller(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Ah, I see. So it has precedence within the documentation section, that means it's not an unknown UX change. I think I'll take a crack at rewording the description to clarify this distinction. I certainly don't just want to be a negative response, I intend to help as much as I can.

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Thanks! I guess I didn't put too much detail in there, as I knew that the drupal.org maintainers knew basically what I was talking about and how it would be an update (the docs section has been redesigned relatively recently).

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  1 day ago
I made patches on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3115701#comment-13600532 and in that comment there are links to see it in action, for anyone interested...
Drupal.orgDrupal.org
Community section headers/breadcrumbs could be nicer(opens in new tab)
Pages under the Community section currently have headers/breadcrumbs that look like this example: Some pages also have tab navigation, such as /forum, which provides links to 3 outdated pages. What we would like instead: a) Where it says Drupal TM in the header, it could have the section name instead ("Community") (which would link to /community) b) Nice breadcrumbs on each page, omitting home > community
Feb 24th

-------------------

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab) May 5th at 9:20 AM
:three: *Anything Else?*: What else do we need to talk about?

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
It looks like the To Dos from this meeting are: (a) Take another look at the visual styling on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3089403 and (2) Proceed to have better headers/breadcrumbs in the Community section on https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3115701

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I feel the work we are doing is intrinsically linked to questions in Dries’ https://dri.es/drupal-2020-product-survey. Well worth a read
dri.esdri.es
Drupal 2020 product survey(opens in new tab)
Take the Drupal product survey to help drive the strategic direction of the Drupal project over the next 3–5 years.(110 kB)

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
Hm, that seems to be mostly a link to take a survey, and one graphic from a survey from 4 years ago.... Have you seen results already?

rachel_norfolk(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I think the questions relate to work we are doing - how we introduce people to the community etc. You might need to get a few questions in to see

jhodgdon (she/her)(opens in new tab)  2 days ago
I was asked to comment on an early version of the survey, and tried to get some questions added that would reflect the breadth of our community better, so good! I will go answer the survey also.