October 4, 2018 Agenda [#3002884]

* Outreachy - sparklingrobots is looking for help getting our fundraising efforts off the ground and would welcome any volunteers!
* BADCamp - Do we have a table? If yes, should we plan some table shifts? Other activities we want at BADCamp?
* DrupalCon sessions - anyone submitting talks and want feedback?
* Don't forget about #ddi-chat if you want more DDI goodness in your life.
* Review issues on DDI to see status on them
* Are we still using instagram? If yes, then how?

Transcript

Moderated By: rubyji

:ddi: Hello, welcome to this week’s Drupal Diversity & Inclusion meeting! :ddi:

This meeting:
• happens every Thursday at 12PM EST
• is chat only (no audio or video)
• happens in threads so keep an eye on those notifications
• there are about 5-10 minutes between topics for people who are multitasking to follow along.
• the agenda is public and anyone can add to it:
• :star: *The transcript of this meeting* will be exported and posted to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.
• We are always working to make DDI channels a better place to work and communicate. If you haven’t already, please read our Guidelines:

Meetings are run by the leadership team - @sugaroverflow (she/her) @drnikki @alannaburke @sparklingrobots @mdrummond @gdd (he/him) @catch & @rubyji. This week it’s my turn to facilitate.

:zero: If you’re joining us today, please introduce yourself (and include your pronouns). Are you seeing Fall weather wherever you are?

alannaburke	Alanna, she/her, just outside of Philadelphia, PA. It’s finally cooling off a bit here and starting to feel a bit like fall!
sugaroverflow (she/her)	Fatima, she/her, Toronto. It’s a lot of rain and very humid here. Doesn’t feel like Fall yet ! :disappointed:
rubyji	Ruby (she/her) in Durham, NC. It was 90 degrees a couple of days ago, so not really. But I am enjoying the cooler mornings.
mdrummond	Marc, he/him, MN. Yes it’s chilly and gross. Summer is gone. :disappointed:
sparklingrobots	Tara, she/her /they/them, Abq, NM, USA. Still warm here but it's balloon fiesta time so I'm pretending it's fall.
slsonnier	SherriLyn, HOT in Charlotte
sparklingrobots	I need to upload a hot air balloon emoji :thinking_face:
nine.lives.black.cat	Tearyne, She/her from Dallas, Texas. What is fall?
unitoch	Paul, he/him from Albuquerque. I have seen a few leaves turn, which I'm told is a sure sign of Fall in my new home. Weather seems about the same, though. :zia:
meghplunkett (she/her)	Hey Megh (she/her) in Philadelphia, PA just starting fall here
rain	Rain (she/her) in North Hollywood, California. We are back to 2 digit weather, so I'll count that as fall :wink: (actually, joking aside, we actually have extremely beautiful mid-70s weather right now, and I just want to live outside)
rubyji	(I encourage people in the US to include their state. It’s not always obvious, especially to folks from outside the US.)
alexdmccabe	Alex, from Orlando, FL, US, he/him. 90° F right now, and it'll probably stay this way for at least another month or two.
Amelia Rose Khan	My first name is Amelia Rose, Toronto, they/them, nice and sunny today.
rubyji	OMG, forgot my pronouns again. So sorry. :disappointed: Editing…
krismaye	Kristen (she/her) in Michigan :wave::skin-tone-2: Fall has pretty much arrived here, which I’m very excited about :fallen_leaf:
starshaped	Aubrey in Boston, Massachusetts, she/her. It's started feeling like fall here and the tree outside my apartment is starting to change colors!
amyjune	AmyJune (she/her) in rainy california. But i look forward to more rain, it brings out the mushrooms!
ekl1773	Elli, she/her, Cologne Germany and YES :fallen_leaf::maple_leaf::leaves:
sarah-thornton	Sarah (she/her) - Raleigh and yes

0️ Initiatives and issues
We have been going through a slow period with a lot of transitions happening, people recovering from conferences, and just dealing with the awfulness of the world in general. So although there hasn’t been a ton of activity on some of these, DDI has several standing initiatives. Let us know if you would like to get involved or have questions about these.

rubyji

Related to all of these issues, @Amelia Rose Khan suggested that we should review and update the issues in our project. That could be a good volunteer project if someone wanted to look at things. Some of these things have leaders pushing them forward and some are more abstract, at least right now.

0️ (1) Resources: DD&I Resources

0️ (2) Speaker initiative: Speaker training and outreach

mdrummond	One of the more urgent tasks with this is to figure out if we want to submit a workshop to Drupal Con for this.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	@mdrummond you could do some collaboration with the wordpress folks on this?
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I think they may have existing resources we could use
mdrummond	Yes that’s what the plan has been, to make use of those.
mdrummond	They’re linked in the issue. And I’ve been in touch with Jill Binder.
mdrummond	This is definitely an outgrowth of their effort.
Amelia Rose Khan	Can we create a calendar of Drupal camps and cons?
sugaroverflow (she/her)	aha - sorry, should read the issue first :smile:
mdrummond	A calendar of Drupal camps and cons is definitely something that would be great.
mdrummond	There’s Drupical, but it’s kind of overwhelming.
rubyji	Drupical has that already.
mdrummond	Build a Module also has a handy calendar.
mdrummond	It would be really handy to have something that says “here are the major events, their locations, and their general attendance, and when they generally have their event each year”
mdrummond	That would be a really good resource to have out there.
mdrummond	Here is the Build a Module camp calendar:
Amelia Rose Khan	@rubyji can you link us to that?
mdrummond	It’s based around specific dates.
mdrummond
mdrummond	Drupical has meetups too, so I find it to be not as helpful. It’s hard to just see the camps.
mdrummond	I guess you can filter it.
rubyji	But I think you can filter it, right?
rubyji	Jinx.
mdrummond	I just think it would be handy to have something that isn’t necessarily the specific dates, but more of “here’s how to plan for the year ahead, although the dates may be up in the air.”

0️ (3) Standardized DD&I talk & policy of use: Create a a standardized DD&I talk & policy of use.

unitoch	This is still on my radar, though I haven't touched it in a while. The talk went well in both venues it was given. Next steps I see are to make a platonic version that anybody can give, which includes fleshing out speaker notes and giving potential speakers a bit more instruction on how to use the slides. If that sounds like interesting work for you, let me know. It's one easy way to do some volunteer work here.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I think these next steps sound fantastic - you should post them to the issue!
unitoch	good idea. I'll do that.
sparklingrobots	I have some feedback too--a bit busy at the moment but will add to the issue.

0️ (4) Contrib team

alexdmccabe

The gender field project is talking about refocusing on D7 so we can get that out the door for d.o. I think it's on our agenda for next week's meeting.

0️ (5) Crediting all forms of contribution: Crediting all forms of contribution with projects and issues (not just development)

0️ (6) Security policy for DD&I and events: DD&I Security Policy

2️ #DDI channels

One important part of what DDI does is community building. So I especially want to remind folks about <#C89BU2ENA|ddi-chat> which is a social space for folks interested in these issues.

There are actually a whole bunch of DDI-related channels that people should check out, including <#C3G1G53CN|ddi-session-help> for people from marginalized groups to get feedback on proposals. Just search the channel listing for anything starting with `ddi-`.

alannaburke

I’d also like to share the loveliness which is the <#C4Z8GPJ6R|drupal-pets> channel, a much-needed bit of cuteness in these tough times.

3️ Camps n’ cons

3️ (1) BADcamp
Who’s coming? We will have an official DDI presentation there on Friday. Do we have enough folks there to table? Should we organize some kind of gathering?

sparklingrobots	I'll be there!
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I’ll be there as well!
rubyji	I just got the budget approval for BADcamp this morning! Now I need to workout childcare issues… :grimacing:
justafish	:wave:
amyjune	Has Anne from BADCamp been asked about a table?? I think they may have brought it up at the last meeting - but I dont know for sure. Maybe there can ba a followup
amyjune	I am organizing the mentoring in the coder lounge, if you're interested in helping newcomers, let me know.
cboyden	I’ll be there!
Redacted
rubyji	I’ve never been to BADcamp, are there receptions or formal social gatherings in the evening?
sparklingrobots	Of the folks who are coming, who is interested in tabling? Leave a :heavy_plus_sign: on the main comment if you are and we can see if there's enough interest to try to get a table together.
amyjune	@rubyji there are some receptions after some of the summits, and then there is a Pantheon party....Lots of folks get together on a whim for supper and such. there will be a game night this year. We will be adding more events as they become formalized.
rubyji	I have mixed feelings about tabling because it makes it hard to attend any sessions.
rubyji	Thanks, @amyjune!
sparklingrobots	I don't need to have a table. Also our booth was largely unattended in Europe and it was fine--we left out the pronoun stickers, postcards and heart stickers, and people grabbed them as they wanted to.
sparklingrobots	It also meant that when people were at the booth I think folks would come over more because there was finally someone to talk to
rubyji	Ah, interesting.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I have to do some remote work for the day so I am a good candidate for tabling.

3️ (2) DrupalCon
Anyone want feedback on drafting their session proposals? Visit <#C3G1G53CN|ddi-session-help>.

alannaburke	I also want to add that as a member of the track team, i know a lot of the recent changes are confusing - if you have questions, please feel free to pop in there and ask, and someone will do their best to answer - you can also tag me and i’ll try to answer!
rain	And if Alanna isn't available, you can tag me, as well.
rain	(or even if she is, of course)
alannaburke	:slightly_smiling_face: the more the merrier
nine.lives.black.cat	I still need to submit mine. And yes, the track changes are confusing for me. I usually go to a blend of build and content-oriented ones, and I don't want to buy a ticket and not be able to go to talks I'd like to.
mdrummond	Also just want to be clear that it is fine to just post in ddi-session-help, hey, I could use some help. Can anyone give some feedback? And then take that to DM with somebody if that feels comfortable.
rain	@nine.lives.black.cat if you would like help picking tags, feel free to send me a draft link
nine.lives.black.cat	I know my talk is more usability, diversity, and a11y. I mostly meant for me as a consumer. I'm kind of fretting the whole thing because the changes have confused me.
rain	@nine.lives.black.cat we could use more submissions in all three of those tags :slightly_smiling_face: Regarding the consumer aspect, yes, your concern is one that we have been exploring. and you are not alone.
nine.lives.black.cat	I know that I'm not alone, and apologies if this sounds flippant, but I would rather have more clarity than affirmations. ^_^; Have you all considered doing a little or something of that sort that folks can watch that explains why it was split and how someone should go about picking their track?
nine.lives.black.cat	As it stands right now trying to figure it out by the October 31 deadline for the more affordable ticket just makes me anxious and I drop it and tell myself I'll come back to it later.
rain	@nine.lives.black.cat I'm DM'ing you

3️ (3) Other upcoming events
Anyone going to DrupalCamp ATL?
Drupal Day at the Nonprofit Technology Conference
Others…

sugaroverflow (she/her)	I might be at !
sparklingrobots	I'll be in ATL! I'm excited; it's my first time going to that camp
rubyji	Drupal Day at the NTC will be different next year, but I will be there. It’s being merged into other specialized info, but the Nonprofit Drupal Community will be curating a thread of sessions of some kind.
nine.lives.black.cat	What's the mix of underrepresented to majority group folks that end up at ATL, out of curiosity? Is it like Baltimore? I saw a lot of people of African descent at that and Govcon.
starshaped	I'm speaking at New England Drupal Camp, which is in Providence, Rhode Island, on November 16th and 17th!
rubyji	I’ve never been but @kclarkson is an organizer, so he would know about ATL…
acrosman	If my talk gets into ATL, I'll be there (since employer will pick it up and won't need to take PTO). Otherwise unsure. Same deal for NTC. If I get there, I'd love to connect with other DDI people.

4️ Communication

We’ve had a few questions and conversations come up related to communication and they’re somewhat connected so I’m taking the liberty to mash them together here.

• Our website content has been neglected, even as the <#C76TQUQ2D|ddi-contrib-team> has been making improvements to the code. It might be time to try having a DDI Communication team again.
• Our Instagram account has been neglected. Should we do something about this? Maybe it’s OK to just use during DrupalCon?
• I’ve been wondering if we should have a more distinct “brand” to distinguish DDI from the DA. Am I the only person concerned abut this?

sugaroverflow (she/her)	I’m very interested in hearing about whether we should change our brand or name to distinguish ourselves and how jarring/or possibly not jarring that might be?
alexdmccabe	I think there will always be people who think that DDI is part of the DA, no matter what.
alannaburke	re: insta - i think it would be great to post pictures of events when we are there and can do that, but otherwise, i’m not worried about using it all year.
alannaburke	i think we definitely need a DDI communication team again
nine.lives.black.cat	I definitely think there are ways that you can distinguish yourselves from the DA, because I initially thought you were an arm of it rather than a group.
alexdmccabe	IMO, the logo is :100:, definitely don't change it.
rubyji	One thing I liked was the idea of calling us a collective, as in “the DDI collective.” We’ve been hesitant to call ourselves a working group or something like that. It might help clarify how we work while also distinguishing ourselves.
nine.lives.black.cat	I think that posting during events and sharing upcoming events/tips on your insta only would be good. Even if you have a schedule where you have bi-weekly posts for subject matter outside of conferences, that's a good start. You can also post more timely incidences (say, how to deal with someone reporting that one of your applicants did something untoward in an equitable fashion) outside of the schedule.
alannaburke	i think the branding is worth thinking about, but @alexdmccabe has a good point, so i think we should put some effort into this but not too much.
rubyji	I’ve tried to think of a whole different name for us, just as a brainstorm, and haven’t come up with anything.
mdrummond	I mean I’m okay with the DDI Rebellion too, quite honestly.
nine.lives.black.cat	The Instagram being updated in a fashion that works with what you want to share but shares relevant information to maintain relevancy -- rather than for the sake of staying relevant -- is good.
sparklingrobots	I agree with @alannaburke that it would be awesome to have someone or someone(s) dedicated to keeping up with/project managing our communications.
alexdmccabe	Maybe I'm being too boring or something, but I think the name is spot on: Drupal Diversity & Inclusion. The group is focused solely on the Drupal community, and it's about Diversity & Inclusion. It seems like anything else is just icing on the cake or obscuring things. It's short, to the point, rolls off the tongue, has a nice acronym that _also_ rolls off the tongue...
nine.lives.black.cat	The fact that Drupal is in the name makes it seem like it's from the Drupal brand is the problem.
nine.lives.black.cat	I'm brainstorming on paper and might have gotten something going.
Amelia Rose Khan	I like collective
nine.lives.black.cat	The one that I have in hand right now that I like is Embrace, in particular because it goes well with the heart iconography and signals on inclusion at a level that's not just tolerance.
nine.lives.black.cat	An embrace is a full-on type of hug, and we're aspiring for marginalized people to be fully included in the community and in the workplace/pipeline, not just hired on for vanity metrics.
nine.lives.black.cat	Lots of folks just want to give diversity and inclusion the awkward side-hug. That's not what DDI is about.
nine.lives.black.cat	So it'd be Embrace for short, and more fully, "Embrace - Diversity and Inclusion in the Drupal Community".
rubyji	That’s a great mental image.
Redacted
alexdmccabe	I like it, but I have a question/counterpoint: if all of that is going to have to be explained to people all the time (and it _will_), what's the difference between explaining that and just explaining "DDI isn't part of/endorsed/sponsored by the DA"?
sugaroverflow (she/her)	My opinion is a little on the possibly controversial side, but I prefer to stay DD&I even if that means we overlap/mix in with the DA. I see us generally wanting the same things/the same goals and don’t see any critically _bad_ issues about being seen as a part of the DA. But this is my opinion and not reflective of the entire DD&I leadership team.
nine.lives.black.cat	I will note that I hate devil's advocacy. I am fine with presentation of counter points to be considered.
rubyji	I have a sort of knee-jerk reaction that has to do with inclusion of non-inclusion. Like I always picture a racist white guy who advocates for deporting all Latinas saying “why don’t you embrace ME?”
alexdmccabe	Is devil's advocacy not just presentation of counter points to be considered?
sparklingrobots	Although they already say that ^^ with our current name
rubyji	I respectfully strongly disagree with @sugaroverflow (she/her) on this.
nine.lives.black.cat	Devil's Advocacy is usually someone saying "But what about the {majority group members}". The devil already has enough advocates.
nine.lives.black.cat	You raised a valid point @alexdmccabe.
nine.lives.black.cat	I recognize that I'm talking about my own POV, and maybe y'all can fill me in, but isn't the main reason people keep thinking y'all are part of the DA is because it's Drupal Diversity and Inclusion? Isn't that how folks were able to perpetuate the idea that someone else that wasn't DDI provided the pronoun stickers?
mdrummond	It’s just been exhausting the last few years hearing the phrase “devil’s advocate here” to very often attack arguments for diversity and inclusion. Definitely know that’s not what you intended at all, @alexdmccabe, but might be a phrase to drop from the toolkit.
alexdmccabe	Okay.
nine.lives.black.cat	You all are a group working on Diversity and Inclusion within the Drupal community.
rubyji	I have a few reasons for wanting to be seen as distinct. 1. The DA needs to do their own diversity work. We are not doing that for them. I know they are trying but I don’t want us used as cover for the fact that they don’t have a major effort in this area. They need to be accountable for their stuff and us for ours. 2. The DA is often the target of our advocacy, so it’s extremely important to remain independent, both in reality and in people’s perception of us. 3. Sometimes the DA does things that I personally consider destructive to diversity or social justice within our community. I just can’t tolerate the idea that we would be seen as endorsing this or even being affiliated with it.
sparklingrobots	Other reasons people confuse us: the DA included our logo on a page about their diversity activities back in Baltimore.
nine.lives.black.cat	@sparklingrobots Maybe that's where the seed in my head came from. That was my first Drupalcon
mdrummond	I think for many, the word Embrace might have positive connotations. I’d be somewhat concerned that for some people, the idea of embracing others might be very, very uncomfortable. The idea comes from a good place. I’m just concerned for some it could generate discomfort.
Amelia Rose Khan	Can we criticize Drupal with our current name? Can we add collective and be called D&I Collective?
alannaburke	i think the issue is that the DA does sometimes make small moves towards diversity & inclusion efforts - usually without much forethought or consultation. when these aren’t enough, or go poorly, people conflate DDI with the DA, and don’t realize we are separate.
rubyji	Yes we already do, @Amelia Rose Khan!
Amelia Rose Khan	Anything wrong with that?
alexdmccabe	Edited my reply to remove the phrase. I'm sorry, and I won't do it again.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	@Amelia Rose Khan some feel very strongly that we need to distinguish ourselves from the DA and their diversity efforts.
rubyji	I’d like to suggest we officially change our name to The Drupal Diversity & Inclusion Collective. If people agree, we should run this by the group at our next few meetings to see if there are any objections. I’m also open to keeping this open to more conversation. I’d like to follow formal consensus process on this.
mdrummond	We’re all learning, Alex, and coming across things that we may have not heard explained in a particular way before
Amelia Rose Khan	Can we talk to DA about always including us in their march forward towards D&I?
rubyji	We could still go by the acronym DDI.
alannaburke	@alexdmccabe we know you meant well!
rubyji	First we’d have to discuss whether we want them to do that, @Amelia Rose Khan. I’m personally kind of burnt out on doing free consulting and then not being listened to anyway.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	@rubyji I’m strongly inclined towards that version of a new name as it sticks to the DD&I but also makes us a collective. I’m also :100: on board with making this an open process.
alexdmccabe	If some/all of the confusion is coming from the DA putting the :ddi: up on slides saying "look at the good work we're doing", it seems like the name of the group is somewhere from partly to completely irrelevant to people thinking about the group being part of the DA.
nine.lives.black.cat	I think that the diversity efforts of the DA are too sterile and on the 'safer' side so as not to make the status quo feel uncomfortable, without taking up the work that's needed to explain why change needs to be made.
Amelia Rose Khan	Thanks, I get this DA and D&I are too close.
alannaburke	The DA is well aware - SO well aware - that we are here
nine.lives.black.cat	I will assert again that I think that including Drupal at the beginning of your name as a group will continue to have you conflated with the DA group at large. I understand the desire to keep the name as it was because you might be* attached to it, but keeping Drupal at the front is not going to resolve your issue.
nine.lives.black.cat	Now instead of being >Drupal Diversity and Inclusion you're > The Drupal Diversity and Inclusion Collective
rubyji	I see your point, @nine.lives.black.cat. But we also want people from within the Drupal community to recognize us as connected to them. I mean Drupal is big. It’s bigger than the DA.
nine.lives.black.cat	Why would a sub-title naming that includes that not signal that?
nine.lives.black.cat	You have a group name, and a subtitle that communicates your purpose. It doesn't have to be what I suggested -- and that was a rough draft thought to begin with. But a distinct name that's not `Drupal` eliminates the brand conflation.
Amelia Rose Khan	Is there a way, we can put out to the community that we need a bigger voice and be listened to on D&I issues?
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I believe the word collective empowers us/our volunteers to have a separate identity and something to point to when we get mixed up with the DA. I don’t believe the conversations of separate will not end with just our name.
alannaburke	i think the original “working group” title is what gave a lot of confusion to thinking it was official, bc there are many official drupal working groups
mdrummond	Collective for Change: Drupal Diversity & Inclusion CC DDI
mdrummond	Just an idea.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	And the name isn’t the core of the problem. We have a trust and communication pathway with the DA that’s failed/failing and that’s something we need to work on.
mdrummond	But changing the word order might help, and I like putting a little bit of revolution into the name.
nine.lives.black.cat	@sugaroverflow (she/her) The core of which problem? The brand conflation or the communication with the DA?
alexdmccabe	I'm with @sugaroverflow (she/her), I think - to me, the issue isn't even necessarily really an issue, and even if it _is_ an issue, I don't know that it belongs to DDI to solve, and even if it _does_ belong to DDI to solve, I don't think a name change will do it.
alannaburke	i also want to sit down and have a conversation with the DA and see where their head is on D&I things and how we can make sure there is no purposeful conflation
sugaroverflow (she/her)	yes! I believe most of the reasoning behind wanting a separate identity (and the others can correct me on this if needed) is coming from failed attempts at working together (because we don’t feel the DA feels accountable) or disappointments or ways in which advocacy or resources have been treated. I also strongly feel (and I’m on my own here) that there have been misunderstandings that have caused this. There might be a difference of long term goals and comfort levels as well. I think the name will allow/empower/strengthen _us_ to act independently but I don’t think it will solve the fact that we aren’t working with the existing power structures here - we’re pushing against them and have been for a long time. And that in itself causes burnout and exhaustion when volunteers feel like no change is happening or voices aren’t being heard at the top level.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	:100: with @alannaburke that we need an honest communication with the DA on “what are your goals / here are our goals” and what are the things we can do together to achieve them. I personally feel we almost need a reset point - but that is a much larger conversation than a name change.
rubyji	Not sure. We never envisioned ourselves as being part of the DA.
rubyji	Even 2 years ago when we were getting along with them much better, we clearly distinguished ourselves from the DA.
Amelia Rose Khan	How?
nine.lives.black.cat	What changed @rubyji?
rubyji	I do think they should have a serious initiative around this. That’s part of what made me start thinking about the name/brand.
nine.lives.black.cat	I think that, while the possibility of people working with and within the DA group is important, there is also a need to have an outside group and voice that will have a more progressive and transformative thought process will always be needed, if only to continue to shift the Overton window.
Amelia Rose Khan	Will having an outside force prompt people to create an inside force again?
mdrummond	I think the issue is that the DA seems to mostly want to keep the status quo, with maybe some changes to appearances, but not changes to underlying power structures. And part of that goes back to Dries, who likes to talk a lot about caring about D&I and giving up power, but ultimately—from all appearances—he wants to have control over Drupal, and his default is to listen and amplify people like him. He definitely does go beyond that, and that’s great. But is he ready to flip tables to make changes? Probably not. And there’s a lot of folks within DDI that want to flip tables. And so there is always going to be some tension. And yes, as we’re successful in pushing to make change, it’s possible that the DA will co-opt some of our work, and our work and effort will get erased. That probably means we’re pushing the status quo to get better, and that’s good. But our work itself may not get top billing, which is incredibly frustrating.
rubyji	It’s hard to explain right here, but as @alannaburke said above, the DA has made some serious missteps in handling diversity issues. I want to recognize that they are trying and they have been supportive of us, at least in word. But in deed, they have no taken our advice on anything other than things like DrupalCon BOFs. They have burned community goodwill on bad consultants, they have supported bad processes like the current governance discussions, etc. They used us to manage community outrage over Larry Garfield even though we had nothing to do with that (or any) DA decision. We have offered to give advice to them as a group but they will only take it from us as individuals. There has been a general erosion of trust.
Redacted
alexdmccabe	Then maybe it would be a good thing if DDI were made an official group, on the condition that it is also given some power to do useful things? To not just give advice, but enforce it?
alannaburke	And while it may seem petty on the outside to worry about who gets credit, it’s sort of a meta-D&I issue of a large organization taking credit for the work marginalized folks are doing for other marginalized foks
rubyji	I very much think the DA should have a diversity initiative, but I would not be a part of that personally.
nine.lives.black.cat	My opinion is that, given the current atmosphere, if DDI is subsumed into the greater DA, any forward movement you have had will dissolve, and you will turn into just another branch that gives clinical answers and reasoning.
nine.lives.black.cat	You need an inside advocate.
rubyji	No, they need an inside advocate.
alannaburke	we have tried that road and it didn’t go well.
nine.lives.black.cat	@rubyji Someone from DA inside here?
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I fully believe we can try again with the inside advocacy because we’ve let our burnout and past experiences and bias get in the way of trying again.
mdrummond	Honestly, part of this comes down to the fact that DA staff regularly come in here to attack our diversity and inclusion efforts.
mdrummond	And actively attack DDI activists.
mdrummond	And the people doing that are still on staff at the DA. And their behavior hasn’t changed.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	I caution everyone on propagating that narrative over and over (despite knowing its happened) If we keep doing that, we close that door to collaborate.
mdrummond	So I am really really sour on working with the DA, when that happens.
rubyji	@nine.lives.black.cat I mean the DA should have an inside advocate for diversity. Not to advocate for our group, but to work on these issues.
rubyji	@sugaroverflow (she/her) I don’t feel like it’s our job to keep the door open to people to regularly demean and insult us.
rubyji	But I honestly wasn’t even thinking about that staff issue when I wrote my comments above.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	We need to examine how useful we are to the-people we are trying to support in the community if we keep fighting against the existing power struggles and then burning out when no change happens. I also disagree. I don’t believe everyone from the DA has been that way with us.
rubyji	If people in the DDI Collective :wink: want to work with the DA, I think that’s great. But if they can’t do it as representatives of the collective, unless we discuss and agree to that.
rubyji	No-one said “everyone” has been that way.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	We’ve worked with people from the DA who have been helpful and I’m not sure we are acknowledging that
rubyji	Personally I’m more frustrated at DA leadership than staff. This isn’t about some personal beef.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	Or acknowledging how we start everyone conversation with them with our battle weapons out.
nine.lives.black.cat	@sugaroverflow (she/her) It sounds like, then, that there is a problem with how DDI are approaching the battle rather than the fact that they're battling. Reminds me of the Fight for Fifteen movement.
sugaroverflow (she/her)	Yes, exactly

5️ Outreachy

@sparklingrobots is looking for help getting our fundraising efforts off the ground and would welcome any volunteers!

rubyji	This would be for a DDI Contrib intern, right?
sparklingrobots	Yes! Through the Outreachy program.
sparklingrobots	Most Outreachy interns are paid for by a single company donating the $6500.
sparklingrobots	But, we could also use OpenCollective to raise that money from lots of sources.
sparklingrobots	This project is languishing right now because I'm the only one working on it. I would love some support on this.
Amelia Rose Khan	@sparklingrobots The goal is $6500?
ekl1773	Following this thread... Maxed out rn but have this on my mind for the future. A more concrete proposal (for sponsors?) would help of course, if I could support someone in writing it?
sparklingrobots	@Amelia Rose Khan yes, that's the minimum needed to pay the intern (maybe also a bit of $$ for Outreachy, but not much...I don't remember that part for sure.)
sparklingrobots	Work needed: • Identify if we want to try to get a full internship from one company or use multiple donations • If multiple donations, pick a sponsor on OpenCollective • Write the ask for sponsors • Send the ask out to all the companies in the Drupalverse :smile:

6️ Any celebrations to share?

alannaburke	i started my new job at Kanopi Studios yesterday and i LOVE everything about it and all of the people so much!
alexdmccabe	Congrats @alannaburke!