Closed (fixed)
Project:
Drupal core
Version:
9.0.x-dev
Component:
meetings
Priority:
Normal
Category:
Task
Assigned:
Unassigned
Reporter:
Created:
2 May 2018 at 11:29 UTC
Updated:
8 Aug 2018 at 23:12 UTC
Jump to comment: Most recent
Moderated By: justafish
Hello! Welcome to to our weekly JavaScript initiative meeting. It happens every Monday right here in Slack!
- This meeting is chat-only. There is no video or audio component.
- We leave about 5 minutes between topics, sometimes more, so that people who are multitasking - The meeting is threaded, so please keep an eye on thread notifications (this may not pop an alert depending on your settings.)
- Please DM me if you would like any items added to today’s agenda!
@samuel.mortenson has joined the channel
1️⃣ Please introduce yourself if you’re attending today’s meeting :wave:
| webchick | Angie from Vancouver :canada: |
| justafish | Sally in :uk: |
| samuel.mortenson | Sam in :hipster: |
| yoroy | Roy from The Netherlands |
| drpal | Matt @ :us: |
| dawehner | Daniel in :github: |
| drpal | _lol_ |
| ckrina | Cristina in :earth_americas: |
| alexpott | alex in europe (at least for now) |
| tedbow | Ted from :us: |
2️⃣ Update from @drpal, @tedbow, @dawehner on how our Permissions page is going?
| drpal | The permissions page renders, you can update and filter permissions. |
| drpal | Saving permissions is perhaps coming this week. |
| drpal | All of this remains unstyled. |
| justafish | awesome |
| justafish | @ckrina any update from UX peeps on this? |
| drpal | There were some issues with CI last week that caused some headaches, but those are resolved. |
| tedbow | @drpal let me know if you need help creating the POST logic on the server |
| tedbow | for permissions |
| drpal | We might. |
| drpal | I haven’t even looked at whats possible. |
| drpal | @tedbow This week for sure. |
| dawehner | Right now we store the state of the permissions on the roles already, so I would guess it is "just " about posting back to jsonapi |
| drpal | Yep |
| tedbow | ah |
| yoroy | I’m not aware of anybody actively working on alternative designs for the permissions page |
| ckrina | We worked in the redesign of the Admin UI this past weekend al DC Ruhr and planed the work with in 3 main pillars: 1-UI, visual update, 2 Interaction updates an 3 - Information Architecture update And we thought the best to start with to establish UI design patterns was the node edit page... so we're not starting with the permissions page yet |
| justafish | ok good to know! |
| justafish | @drpal shall we slap some pre-fab css onto it? |
| justafish | we can do that in a separate PR even |
| dawehner | :+1: |
| drpal | Yeah. I was going to see if we could merge the permissions work |
| drpal | And work on styling after |
| drpal | Since it’s getting a bit long already. |
| justafish | +1 |
| webchick | @ckrina oooh! is that work in the issue queue yet or? |
| ckrina | no, it's almost on paper only for now... :sweat_smile: |
3️⃣ How was our plan received by the core team, @webchick? :grimacing:
| webchick | I left some comments in the doc. It was pretty rushed, so we didn’t really get a chance to digest it.
But essentially, I think it’d be good for us all to have a call with at least a good chunk of the core committers because there were concerns (not necessarily blocking concerns) with the plan. Whether a full-blown Calypso-like thing makes sense as our first stab at React in core, what workflow challenges GitHub brings in once we’re ready to put this in a tagged release, etc. |
| webchick | Dries in particular wanted to know why Calypso and not, say, a redesigned field UI. |
| webchick | I pointed out we don’t have designs for either one, but he felt like that was a solvable problem if we identified it as a need. |
| dawehner | Wouldn't a redesigned field UI be part of it? |
| webchick | @dawehner I’m sure it would, but it’s a “walk before we can run” concern. Basically, creating a single React application and “embedding” it in an existing Drupal theme seems like a much smaller elephant to swallow than redesigning the entire admin experience. |
| webchick | I know there were reasons we didn’t want to do that—chiefly so that this application would look/feel consistent with what React/JS developers expect—but basically everyone wants this initiative to be successful, and this gigantic scope felt like it was representing a risk. |
| dawehner | In the discussions we had about this topic we argued for example: We want to have a good end-experience and don't waste time by doing shortcuts. |
| webchick | I don’t think this is a *new* concern, per se, it’s been brought up here before, but the fact that the core committers are having the same impressiojn is interesting. |
| yoroy | At dc Ruhr we toyed with the idea of creating a specifi “Author UX” theme as a playground for optimizing authoring tools specifically |
| webchick | Interesting. |
| dawehner | Oh yeah no question. I think one thing which would be convincing is the way he current app allows you to already take over individual pages properly and leave all the other ones in place. |
| webchick | Anyway, I think our next step shoud be to update our issue summary with that google doc text, and then tag it with all the “Needs * Manager review” tags, and see how that unfolds over the next week or so. |
| yoroy | what is “the current app”? |
| dawehner | @yoroy Right now we have talked a lot about focusing on the site builder, not content editor experience. Is there a reason you pucked one usecase over the other? |
| justafish | I think it’s also good to bear in mind that regarding embedding a React app in a theme - we’ve already done that with our dblog prototype |
| webchick | Cos that way feedback can be in public, and we can gauge the level of disconnect |
| tedbow | @yoroy current |
| webchick | @justafish yes, but that’s a prototype, not shippable code. |
| yoroy | ok thanks |
| webchick | we don’t have any REact shippable in 8.5, nor targeting for 8.6, and the earliest we get this done is 8.7 (we think) |
| samuel.mortenson | is this accurate? “React takes control of an entire page and may control routing from that page, but the rest of the Admin UI is left untouched”. maybe people think turning on the React app means turning off normal admin stuff |
| tedbow | the rest of the pages not controlled by the APP |
| webchick | So this means announcing an initiative in Sep 2017 and not shipping until March 2019. |
| webchick | which doesn’t look great |
| yoroy | @dawehner author tools because that’s where we can have impact for the largest group. |
| webchick | So I think the feedback was whether we could ship something sooner that was high-impact. Field UI was an obvious candidate because it is soooo terrible. |
| ckrina | @dawehner we decided focusing on author-ux because it's where new&fancy CMS are ahead and can have more impact |
| webchick | Authoring UX will always be the highest-impact, agreed. That impacts 100% of Drupal users, vs. permissions page + field UI benefit user 1 and that’s about it. |
| webchick | And when people talk about Drupal being too hard, it’s almost always about the authoring experience compared to competitors. |
| dawehner | One reason why we decided to focus on the site builder experience is because that's something which is easier to deliver. |
| webchick | @dawehner Right. Can we deliver the permissions page in 8.6? That might help assuge Dries’s concerns. |
| webchick | My impression was that permissions page only comes with the whole kit-and-caboodle of the react-create-admin app |
| webchick | And that it would be blatantly silly to try and ship THAT by 8.6 |
| justafish | I think what’s being asked there is a completely different architecture to what we’re building currently |
| tedbow | @webchick the current workflow works well with a situation which doesn’t talk over every single admin page. we could shift it back to working within other pages |
| drpal | @justafish This kind of feels like the initial prototype I had made. |
| webchick | @justafish I think what’s being asked is to ship something high-impact sooner than March of next year. |
| justafish | right |
| webchick | I don’t think it’s getting more prescriptive than that |
| webchick | So we can tell them “no” or we can tell them “here’s what we can do” or whatever |
| justafish | I’d say.. we can see where we’re at after Nashville, but whatever we ship will include the create-react-app stuff I think |
| drpal | There’s a ton of unanswered questions around building ~the~ a field UI with react. |
| webchick | Oh, agreed. |
| webchick | starting with a little thing called a spec. :smile: |
| tedbow | I think we change the way we take over pages and make it work like @drpal initial work. |
| tedbow | then it will be easier to ship with just a few pages taken over |
| webchick | Anyway, the bottom line, I think us all need to talk to them all (or at least some combination of Dries + release manager + framework manager) |
| webchick | Because that way it’s not webchick trying to play purple monkey dishwasher |
| dawehner | Well, designing a field UI which is usable is nothing which is possible within a year anyway. |
| webchick | (Simpsons reference ;)) |
| webchick | @dawehner Right, that might be so, unless someone like OCTO is willing to donate a design resource for a couple of months |
| webchick | |
| drpal | Yeah. Honestly, the actual construction on the JavaScript side won’t be all that difficult. |
| dawehner | Well, getting community agreement on something like that is a non trivial effort. |
| drpal | It’s the support APIs. |
| drpal | Design. |
| drpal | etc. |
| dawehner | It is not a technical problem |
| webchick | @dawehner And you think getting their agreement on replacing the admin experience of Drupal will be easier? :wink: |
| dawehner | @webchick touche :slightly_smiling_face: |
| drpal | @webchick Luckily they can just turn it on/off. |
| webchick | Well, that’s true of “Beter Field UI” module too |
| webchick | We’ll have to ship the legacy one until at least D9 either way |
| drpal | If we try and replace individual components, that are targeted replacements, there’s going to be huge hurdles at ever point to get things in. |
| dawehner | Oh we treat those pages as "API"s? |
| drpal | If we continue to build a 100% replacement alternative that people can include when they want. |
| drpal | It’s probably going to be easier. |
| justafish | agreed |
| webchick | These are all good comments to be putting in so we;re at least all talking in the same place. |
| justafish | and I also could not dislike the idea of embedding little React apps into Drupal admin themes more |
| webchick | but in the meantime, any objections to me updating our issue summary so at least our new, not-yet-approved plan is generally visible ? |
| webchick | I’d especially like to do this given the Vue.js issue sparked up again over the weekend. |
| justafish | @webchick +1 |
| webchick | Cool, doing that now. |
| justafish | so @yoroy @ckrina how would you feel about working on something for the Permissions page so we have something shippable for Nashville? |
| justafish | it can always be replaced later once you’ve done the bigger picture discovery work |
| justafish | (shippable !== committed into Drupal core btw) |
| ckrina | I feel scared... but I can work in that if it will make a difference :slightly_smiling_face: |
| justafish | haha |
| justafish | @ckrina scared because? :slightly_smiling_face: |
| ckrina | But of course I'm guessing it'll be need changed later |
| justafish | ah |
| ckrina | scared because of the permissions page :smile: |
| ckrina | finding a proper solution |
| alexpott | @ckrina well at least it is difficult to have a worse ui - |
| samuel.mortenson | Might be good to look into contrib modules that alter that page with a high # of installs like |
| alexpott | I think one thing the debate about what part of the UI the initiative is tackling highlights is that once we have a working prototype of the permissions page using the react app it'd be great to get @yoroy and @ckrina involved in choosing what comes next. |
| justafish | we just merged @drpal’s Permissions PR, we’re just making a video to show you how things look right now, stand by all :slightly_smiling_face: |
| webchick | Ooooh!! |
| drpal | Done. |
| drpal | It’s on the issue. |
| justafish | |
| drpal | _ha_ |
| justafish | just to highlight too - those links go to the admin UI in Drupal where it falls back to the Seven theme |
| justafish | so if we had a toolbar/proper menu sorted out then you could actually use this |
| samuel.mortenson | nice throbber |
| justafish | as @mherchel would say - #rightnow |
| drpal | Another couple things to highlight. Filtering happens on the client, no round trip to the server. Toggling a permission updates the components state, we just need to save it. |
| drpal | All of this is built using reusable components. |
| justafish | so maybe we should steal a couple of ideas from fpa as @samuel.mortenson suggested, slap some generic CSS library on it and call it good for now so we have something “shippable” :slightly_smiling_face: |
| justafish | and then the UX team can come back to this when they feel they’re ready |
| dawehner | Just having a filter on there right now improves everything by 5000% already |
4️⃣ We have our core conversation at Nashville, but we’ve also been offered space for a bof/hard problems meeting. Is there interest in doing this, and if so what topics would you like to focus on?
| justafish | I’m not too fussed myself, but maybe it’d be good to schedule it in in case there’s overflow conversation from the core convo |
| dawehner | It would be always possible to use this meeting thinking about better ways to get people involved. |
| drpal | :thumbsup: |
| drpal | At least getting setup with the JavaScript admin workflow is a bit easier. |
5️⃣ We’ll be sprinting in Nashville! How can we prepare for getting new people setup?
| justafish | @alexpott is there any work left on that installer or is it v good now? |
| dawehner | I pushed a PR yesterday which adapts our branch to take into account he latest RTBC changes from the installer |
| alexpott | I'll take another look in the coming days. All the work on the core issues is progressing and hopefully they'll land before nashville and then setting up and testing should be simpler. |
| justafish | @alexpott should I close that issue we worked on with the composer install? |
| alexpott | Yeah I think so. If we need to do a custom install location when we actually include it in drupal we'll just use the composer plugin |
| webchick | Are we hoping to get people started converting tests? If so, is there a need of a one-pager docs on how to do that? If so, I’d be happy to help review that (probably can’t write it tho) |
| dawehner | @webchick There is no documentation yet, but that's also because the thing isn't it yet either. |
| dawehner | @webchick I'm happy to work on such a documentation page, but to be honest I'm not sure it is the right idea to convert the existing tests instead of writing new ones. |
| justafish | We could get people working on the manual test plan tests |
Ok, issue summary updated with current plan:
6️⃣ @dawehner suggests we have a blog where we can show off our progress like in 3️⃣
| justafish | +1 |
| justafish | Would anyone be willing to help out with this? |
| dawehner | I think having a nice place to follow for people without checking out the pull requets would be nice |
| justafish | @drpal that was going to be the last meeting item obvs |
| webchick | Sounds great. In the meantime, could send it off the Lullabot one or something that’s wired up to Drupal Planet? |
| dawehner | I'm happy to work on a custom blog on github |
| drpal | @dawehner i can help also. |
| drpal | i think a github one would be easy. |
| dawehner | I'd avoid attaching this to any company |
| justafish | more than happy to put it on the Lullabot blog, though they should probably be slightly longer posts |
| dawehner | Yeah jekyll is nice and easy to setup and everyone can post using markdown files |
| webchick | Fair enough… just that the stupid Drupal Planet rules will mean we can’t promote our work until we post 3 posts. :stuck_out_tongue: |
| justafish | I think the idea for this would be to let someone like Dries see that we’re actually doing stuff and have made a lot of progress :wink: |
| webchick | +1 yep |
| dawehner | @webchick Easy: 1) What is this logo about left peace right ... |
| webchick | LOL |
| webchick | I’m pretty sure they have to be 3 planet-worthy posts. :wink: |
| dawehner | Well, can't we just ask them nicely? |
| drpal | haha |
| dawehner | We could release a version of views in D7 which returns a different result |
| webchick | But anyway, if we have a jsdrupal.. whatever blog, I don’t think there’s a problem with people at Acquia/Lullabot/whoever pointing out on their company’s blog what they’re working on and pointing people over to the post on github, but maybe I’m alone in this. |
| justafish | @dawehner we can have 1 post for the left arrow, one for the peace hands, and the 3rd one for the right arrow |
| dawehner | @justafish Good thinking! |
| drpal | We can just get some deep knowledge on unicode spec and emoji. |
| dawehner | Honestly, a pointer to would be so worth it |
| justafish | haha ok so @dawehner is setting up the blog, is there anyone who would be interested in helping with the editorial side/writing words? |
| webchick | I am generally definitely up for that, but not this week |
| justafish | :tada: |
| dawehner | Deal! |
7️⃣ Any other business?
8️⃣ Should @dawehner buy these new glasses?
| justafish | |
| drpal | @justafish can you embed these directly? |
| justafish | |
| justafish | |
| webchick | They look sassy! I say yes. :wink: |
| justafish | _properly lol-ed_ |
| fubhy | @justafish @dawehner have him buy the glasses. And a razor. Actually just the razor. |
| fubhy | :stuck_out_tongue: |
| justafish | :joy: |
| dawehner | Haha |
| justafish | @fubhy he’s just becoming a London hipster |
| fubhy | Good good. I was worried the housing prices had him relocate under a bridge :stuck_out_tongue: |
| justafish | lolsob |
| fubhy | I shouldn't be talking. I am waaaaaay past the 3-day beard :stuck_out_tongue: |
| fubhy | On my way to the Bart look. |
| fubhy | It's funny because that's what we call a "beard" in germany. |
| fubhy | I am confused. |
| dawehner | lol |
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