With the new release of Drupal 6 and development now taking place on Drupal 7 shouldn't someone consider the impact of these new releases on the Drupal project? We love Drupal but with the new versions it strikes me that they are decimating the system. Most of the greatness of Drupal, for me, comes from the modules (which I guess are easy to write because of how good the Drupal core system is). Every new release of Drupal reduces the number of modules available and thus is detrimental to the project. If Drupal want to keep releasing new versions regularly then they should be backward compatible with modules for older versions otherwise its adding massive strain to the project as a whole, I feel sorry for the module writers (us included) as we want to add new features but are having to spend time on new versions which are compatible with the new system.

We have not started using Drupal 6 as not enough of the core modules that we use have been converted across. Now I read that Drupal 7 is under development I really fear that Drupal is shooting itself in the foot.

For me as a user the differences between Drupal 5 and 6 are very small, do the underlying system changes really warrant a version increase that destroys all previously written modules?

I just wanted to voice these concerns and I hope that someone with the necessary influence picks up on this issue.

Kind regards,

Ryan

www.genericwebsite.co.uk

Comments

lmason’s picture

Views, Events, Image and Image Assist are important elements for a lot of basic sites but we are all hamstrung until they are rejigged. Plus, it should be noted that the ISP's who are providing people with access to drupal are moving with the latest version before any of the extra functionality has been developed.

joep.hendrix’s picture

Suppose that Drupal7 will be released in 9 months.
If I were a module developer, I would not port modules to D6 but wait till the new version is around. Otherwhise I would have to actively maintain 3 versions (5, 6 and 7, not to mention 4).

On the other hand, we want the new functionality! But what is Drupal without the contrib modules?
Hmmm, difficult.

-----------------------------------------
Joep
CompuBase, Drupal websites and design

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Joep
CompuBase, Dutch Drupal full service agency

Rowanw’s picture

The gap between the release of 5.0 and 6.0 was 13 months, do you know how many modules were developed for Drupal 5 in that time? A LOT.

Why would anyone wait 9 months to release a module that could take them a week to develop? Upgrading that module to the latest version of Drupal could take a few hours depending on the complexity.

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How to override HTML in Drupal 6

joep.hendrix’s picture

13 months between two launches, that means practically even less then the 9 months I was referring to. Because there is an end of life phase and launch fase.
So lets say, practically 6 months or even less!
That is really short for the bigger modules to keep up with.

Upgrading that module to the latest version of Drupal could take a few hours depending on the complexity.

Agree, but I was referring to the bigger modules that are widely used and with a lot of dependant modules.

Here a few modules that are widely used and none of them are D6 ready.
- CCK
- Views
- ImageCache
- Taxonomy Access Control
- Event

-----------------------------------------
Joep
CompuBase, Dutch Drupal full service agency

Johnny’s picture

Johnny
I started using Drupal back when it was a very manual install and upgrade.
I did this with no local support and one Drupal user came to my assistance. Back in those days I hardly knew how to use a ftp client let alone HTML, and thought CSS was an advance release Adobe CS. Austin over at http://austinsloan.com got me rolling and after that 48 hour period of a very harsh learning curve I was making money selling ads on my Drupal site with very little content - like none.

If you are posting concerns here you should watch this video cast as I have on the State of Drupal.

http://buytaert.net/state-of-drupal-presentation-march-2008

Apple releases a new OS about once every 2 years. With how much the Internet is changing day to day and knowing that use of it is only in it's "New Born" status it is important not to question our fearless leader Dries Buytaert. As he has provided in the video there were over twice as many patches in Drupal 6 over Drupal 5 and almost twice as many developers. Also stated each release is only a ramp to all the issues that become clarified in the development of a new release that will be addressed in the next development cycle and - 7 is to be the "Killer Release!"

I have sites running on 4, 5, and 6 and believe me I have to disagree when anyone says there hasn't been that many changes from 5 to 6 - the drag and drop menu system still blows me away that you can get this from a open source shareware download web solution.

Don't Worry Just learn More Drupal!

"In Drupal We Trust" - the best online solution since Google!
http://mybanffphotographer.com - using Drupal since 2005

Rowanw’s picture

If I had a dollar for every time someone brought this up... "You're going too fast"

"We love Drupal but with the new versions it strikes me that they are decimating the system."

By "decimating", do you mean "improving"? But seriously, what makes you think there's any decimation happening here?

"Every new release of Drupal reduces the number of modules available and thus is detrimental to the project."

No, people don't delete their modules when a newer version of Drupal is available. Nor do modules stop working.

"backward compatible"

See http://drupal.org/node/65922

Our company is still using Drupal 5 and we won't be moving to Drupal 6 until we can match what we can already achieve with Drupal 5, but it's not hurting us in any way, shape or form by waiting.

There's a number of reasons why slowing down development is pointless:

  1. Everyone scratches their own itch - if Robert Douglass wants to add spelling suggestions to the search module then that's his choice, not yours or mine. Can you imagine someone who you've never met telling you what to work on next? Also, people won't update a module unless it's in their best interest to do so, people like chx aren't going to drop everything just to upgrade random modules to D6.
  2. Drupal wouldn't be what it is today if it had to be backwards compatible with contributed modules.
  3. The latest stable version of Drupal will always receive updates as long as there are bugs worth fixing. Drupal 5 received 7 updates (with numerous fixes in each update) over the course of ~12 months, as you can see Drupal 5 is still being worked on to this day. Likewise, Drupal 6 has received 2 updates already.

If you want a module to be updated sooner rather than later then do something about it! There's plenty of information and resources on how to upgrade modules, you can also test development snapshots and provide feedback.

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How to override HTML in Drupal 6

userofdrupal’s picture

This reply is right on. I loved this line:

"Our company is still using Drupal 5 and we won't be moving to Drupal 6 until we can match what we can already achieve with Drupal 5, but it's not hurting us in any way, shape or form by waiting."

The only thing I would add is:
1. As someone else mentioned in another thread, Drupal 6 has to be released and defined before module developers will have something to develop against. So almost by definition Drupal 6 has to be released first, followed by Modules later.

2. IMHO, Drupal.org could be better about guiding new users to version 5 first for the time being. I feel a common scenario is a newbie downloads and installs 6 and then after some period of time realizes they need to go back and install 5. But on the plus side it increases your install chops.

steve-psngs’s picture

If you look in module downloads you'll find new modules for 6 every day.

mrgoltra’s picture

but not the ones I really need will not be ported to 6 anytime soon. D6 is great but I can only do what I can at the moment without the modules that I need and I will wait.

GiorgosK’s picture

trevortwining’s picture

When you use Drupal, you get the community.

That includes the wonderful things Drupal can do, and also the challenges that members of the community face. It should be said however that those challenges like rapid release time are really seen more as characteristics by those in the community. As a participant in the community there's a few expectations of you also. Those expectations revolve generally around working how those of us in the community work. There are ways to slow down in the manner you're describing while also moving forward.

As mentioned before, you can help with module upgrades, this is a 'going with the flow' approach. The main benefit of this is you stay in tune with the most vibrant drupal contributions.

You could also help maintain the release you're interested in keeping around longer. If someone really wanted to, they could go back and maintain Drupal 3. There's just no interest in it. I think Drupal 5 will be a different story though. The benefit of this is we could end up with an equivalent to Ubuntu's Long Term Support distributions that would make businesses happier. The drawback of this is that while core might end up getting supported, contrib modules will likely follow the first path, because that's where the richness of the experience is for a developer scratching their own itch. Also, there are fewer resources spread around many modules, and many will not be able to maintain their older versions.

Finally, the last option is to particpate to the extent that your concerns will be heard. If your argument is compelling enough and presents a rational conclusion that enough people will agree with, you can get your way in the Drupal community. It happens every day.

There might be other options, but I can't think of them. This is another area of Drupal where there's more than one way to do things :)

Clients need to be educated about this fundamental difference between Open Source projects and their commercial counterparts in general. Part of the cost of 'getting the software for free' is working with the community. Sometimes that takes effort and financial resources as well. My clients do invest in the intial development, ongoing updates and upgrades to keep things in line with the general directions of the community, and contributions back to the community. I explain how all this works up front, and tell them that's the trade off for using a commercial system. They get it, and they appreciate it.

@rwbutler, this is a great question, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Trevor Twining
http://www.trevortwining.com

Trevor Twining
Freelance Drupal Dev
Theme/Modules/Sitebuilding

rwbgb’s picture

I agree with most of what’s been said, I realise that the development has to go on, thanks to the ever changing nature of the web.

Microsoft don't release a new version of Office every 9 months as they know it would really annoy their clients, their clients would start to look else where. They built a good product that works, established their market then tried to protect it (lets not argue about office being good). In some ways I think the success of Drupal is beginning to pitch the developers endless need to improve things against the businesses now using Drupal as a commercial tool. Most of the new development that we need is enhancement work by module writers not the core of the project, thankfully modules can be upgraded without destroying a website.

If there is an end-game e.g. the target is to make Drupal 7 the ultimate release to destroy all other CMS’s and then remain for a couple of years before another upgrade then great but I still fear that when this release is reached and the module writers have used all their energy re-writing their modules again (rather than improving them) Drupal 8 will be just around the corner.

By decimating the project I meant weakening the project rather than strengthening it. I do still feel that releasing new versions of Drupal too rapidly harms the project. Increasing the time between releases, now an excellent solid CMS has been achieved, I think, should be the aim.

Kind regards,

Ryan

http://www.genericwebsite.co.uk

coolvid’s picture

The thing is this.

In the early days Drupal was an emerging technology. Each new release added a lot of vital functionality - I remember going from Drupal 4 to 5 and being pleased with all the new features that were added.

But going from Drupal 5 to 6 doesn't seem to be quite so compelling. Yes, some really good things have been added, but as Drupal becomes increasingly complex, each new feature requires a lot more time to develop and test. It's a great stable platform now, and as a result it needs to be treated as such.

I can see the points about backward-compatibility. I don't think it's necessary for Drupal 6 to support modules from Drupal versions 3 or even 4 - but my life would be much simpler if it supported Drupal 5 modules. After each new release, which is a punishing 12 month cycle, there's a 6 month delay whilst modules are ported to the latest version. I do my bit, by porting all of my own modules, and some parts of contributed code in testing - but I can't give that to my clients because it's a Beta release. Instead they have to take the older version and a risky upgrade in a couple of years' time.

Drupal is a mature project now, and it has become a thorough stable platform that we know and love. I think that there needs to be a way-path found to compromise between the regular new releases and compatibility - that way we can always use the latest version, something which I find to be one of the more important project aims.

David.

Johnny’s picture

How Big were most of us when we were 8?

I agree its a pain waiting for modules catch up to core but patience is a virtue.

But when viewing the State of Drupal, This is a project and if a project does not have a direction interest is lost.

Drupal 7 is all about improving the design of Drupal's framework and its usability for all parties - at least this is the message i got from the video.

The whole idea that in Drupal 6, Drupal is constantly checking in for module updates with Drupal.org is a sign that Drupal is trying to stay with the times and have features that other major projects like OSX on Mac has.

I am pleased to see that Drupal Developers have a plan for the next release before the current project is finished. This insures a future
for all the production sites relying on the project for online success.

Johnny
"In Drupal We Trust" - the best online solution since Google!
http://mybanffphotographer.com - using Drupal since 2005

JohnForsythe’s picture

My concern is a little different. I have no problem with new versions coming every year, but I strongly believe Drupal needs to support older versions with security patches longer than they currently do. Discontinuing 4.7 the moment 6.x was released was a bad decision, IMO.

I really hope that when Drupal 7 hits, 5.x won't immediately become a security risk.

--
John Forsythe
Drupal Modules - Find the module you need for your project!

socialtalker’s picture

but it what might possibly be happening is folks high up in the system might be driving this crazy schedule in order to build a for-profit product down the line. something like that.

Johnny’s picture

Most of us here at Drupal, including my small corporation that runs on lightly edited themes already profit from Drupal.

I would fund developers more than I am already if there wasn't such shortage of individuals in my region that were capable to perform everything I do and I only toy with simple CSS and chose modules that are well maintained. Now that these so called high up individuals have gained the trust of larger companies. Drupal will have even a greater interest. Heavy duty funding creates a lot of "B" and "C" rate Hollywood movies - Without mega funding Drupal has a Legacy quality growth. It will only achieve greater things and I know a year will go by so quickly. I will only learn more here in the forums than I would ever learn picking up a book at Indigo or Downloading a how to video from some Pay Site. In over 2 years of being here at Drupal, I have had plenty of chances to seek out other online solutions but all the contributions make "The Core what it is. "The Core" will not forget all the contributing developers and folks like myself selling the use of Drupal every chance we get. At the same time it is "The Core" responsibility show leadership that there remains a bright future for large and small production sites alike with Drupal. Corporations, Communities, Families, Friendships, all Organizations are constantly under the TEST. Great things have happen here and this is not time to rest on laurels.

I photograph over 60 weddings and elopements each year and everyone of them gets a Drupal Wedding Website.

My server allows me 1000 Mysql databases hopefully this will mean 1000 Drupal Wedding Websites and I am counting on Drupal everyday to be as reliable as it has been for last 2 years for many years to come. As my organization grows, my financial contributions will continue to grow because the community needs every bit of help it can get to buck all the unknown situations that any organization could experience.

I know Carolynn and Jeff was swept away of how wonderfully easy Drupal made it for them to share their wedding day to all there friends and family all around the world!

http://carolynnandjeff.rockiesweddings.com/

This being said I have to return working on my latest content for my newest Drupal Site.

Johnny
"In Drupal We Trust" - the best online solution since Google!
http://mybanffphotographer.com - using Drupal since 2005