0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread to introduce yourself. We’ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours for all time zones.

griffynh Griff, Aus :wave:
kimb0 :wave::skin-tone-2:
darvanen :wave: , lurking
Kristen Pol (she/her) Kristen :wave: catching up... just crossed the Oregon => California border
balintbrews Bálint from Amsterdam, Netherlands :flag-nl::wave::skin-tone-2:
Danish Shah Danish :wave: Kashmir.
lauriii :wave:
catch :wave:
guptahemant Hemant, Catching up
lendude :wave: Lurking
abhisekmazumdar Hello
raubin :wave:  hello
Andrei Zvonkov :wave: Hi

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread, and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

2️⃣ Subtopic 1: Theme builder

3️⃣ Subtopic 2: Page builder frontend

griffynh This issue is tracking UX design work: #3459259: UX design tracker
kimb0 Looks like we need more help on UX design?
lauriii The first item is clearly the largest item there because it needs to define a lot of the UI foundation. That said, I'm onboarding @Christy Clonts, @Rachel Hart, and @bostonjillian to help this week which should allow us to further accelerate our progress :tada: (edited)
guptahemant QED42 can also align some members from design team on this one.
lauriii That would be awesome!
guptahemant Let us know where to start :+1:
lauriii I'm currently onboarding Christy and Rachel but once they are onboarded, I'll start preparing for more work which could be picked up by someone. I'll probably need around a week for that. I'll let you know then and we can discuss further.
guptahemant Great thanks :+1:

4️⃣ Subtopic 3: Data model/persistence layer

kimb0 I'm interested in where the conversation got to with [#3454519]I think @larowlan was waiting for @wimleers (he/him) to return from leave for feedback
catch I've tried to write up a better explanation of my concerns about cross-view-mode data access in #3440578: [PP-2] JSON-based data storage proposal for component-based page building#comment-15661825.I think we need to try to summarize some of the different models in that issue in the issue summary with pros and cons as well as documenting the use cases a bit better. A different issue might be good for the use cases/user stories.

5️⃣ I’m not sure where to start, but I want to contribute to Experience Builder.

griffynh https://contribkanban.com/board/experience_builder is a great place to see what’s in progress/open for Experience Builder.
griffynh Here are the meta coordination issues as well that might shed more light:FrontendBackend
lauriii https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C072JMEPUS1/p1720694576769699?thread_t...

6️⃣ Wins - what wins have you had since the last meeting? Share your successes!

Kristen Pol (she/her) Will be focusing heavily on the temporary demo design system for Barcelona per _lauriii's go ahead earlier today :tada: Put together a pitch deck and quick video for that if anyone is curious see[#3454125]#comment-15676626
balintbrews I’ve opened my first MR for XB, and while it still needs some work, it’s getting close, and I’m getting more and more comfortable with the UI codebase.

7️⃣ Are any sync meetings required this week?

Kristen Pol (she/her) I'll be syncing on the Salsa side but no XP team syncing needed yet
lauriii I've been doing sync calls with a team from Axelerant helping on several issues + designers onboarding to the project. Happy to grab time if there are any other folks who are interested in contributing and need onboarding!
abhisekmazumdar I want to get involved. Can you add me as well.
lauriii I could do another onboarding call for development work next week :+1:

8️⃣ Weekly updates - What have you been working on? What’s up next? Need assistance with anything? Any blockers?

Kristen Pol (she/her) https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C072JMEPUS1/p1720665035664799?thread_t...
balintbrews I’ve been working on: #3458535: Middle click + drag doesn't work correctly if middle click is inside preview iframe.There are some quirks left in Firefox and Safari which I would like to fix, then pick a new UI issue.
lauriii Focus has been still on collaboration with UX designers. I'm tracking progress for that in #3460783: Implement component states.Formed a hypothesis on default component categorization + default elements.Next:Research on default elements & categorization (tree testing). Testing will start on Monday.Planning on UX/DX for developer created components.Designs for right tray to edit component props.Designs for loading states.

1️⃣.1️⃣ @acbramley “Plans for experience builder in core”

acbramley I've heard mixed reports on whether XB is going into core in full. Most recently from @lauriii (I believe) that said only bits to enable XB will be in core, otherwise it'll be in contrib.OTOH I've heard it said that "XB and LB can't live simultaneously" but that doesn't seem to match up with the last comment. If XB is in contrib then it seems like there wouldn't be a big push for an LB -> XB migration which could be a huge roadblock for any sites to use XB
neecoe Lets just hope this migration is one click for most coz this migration game is killing Drupal . Soon there would be no Drupal sites left to be migrated to.
neecoe https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C06GX5T33/p1720604709282349
neecoe Just Forget the migration thing for a few years , let people breathe for God sake :slightly_smiling_face: . Nothing is gonna happen, just an extra module somewhere.
acbramley This thread is about XB in core, can you move those messages elsewhere please?
lauriii I think we need to eat the elephant one bite at a time. The first task is to implement an Experience Builder that is differentiated against the existing Drupal solutions as well as outside competitors. This is what we are focused on currently. If we don't succeed at this, a migration is much less important because there's not going to be much incentive to move.If we are successful, at this point >90% of new Drupal sites are being built with XB, and you could run XB side by side with Layout Builder and Paragraphs so some sites would be enabling it as an addition.At that point, we would focus on implementing migrations for Layout Builder and Paragraphs. At first, this would allow simpler sites and other early adopters using the migration to move to XB. I realize that this needs to be as simple process as it possibly could be. This will be challenging to achieve this, especially against the quite advanced setups some sites have built especially on top of Layout Builder.Once we have a differentiated product, and we have early adopters migrating to XB, we would start considering how might we move more of the existing sites to the new platform. During this stage, it would make sense to start considering if we should bring XB to Drupal Core or not.Layout Builder, Paragraphs, and Experience Builder will end up living side by side because we need to maintain different solutions for sites that are using them. However, when people are building new sites, Experience Builder would be their default choice, not because it's in core but because it does the job best.
acbramley Thanks @lauriii that makes it much clearer, I guess it's just important to think of that eventual migration now so things are designed in a way that doesn't make migrations very complex, which I think is happening to some extent. It'll just be important for people that do have advanced LB experience to review the data model especially
lauriii 100%, we definitely need to keep it in mind when we make decisions so that we can make implementing the migration easier down the line
neecoe Not only there are complex projects using lb and paragraphs , but there are even builders built on top of lb and paragraphs. I am not sure if we should build a page builder or a common flexible data model people can use to build builders if for some reason they dont like XB. layout_builder did fall short in some areas compared to paragraphs (translations and json output for example) as a result I have to use paragraphs even though I dont like it much. Perhaps we need a common base which all page_builders can use. Hope XB provides that. That could possibly help interoperability amongst tools. XB is not the first page builder and it wont be the last (edited)
catch We also need to think about xb as the front end for navigation and site chrome/block module replacement. If we're ever going to deprecate layout builder then either enough needs to be in core to support those or they would need to not be in core any more. But no block ui in core seems challenging.Additionally I think we should be trying to fix some of the worst issues like field block plugins in core. We are likely going to need very similar concepts in xb and shouldn't get into derivative hell again, and it definitely won't make a migration worse.@larowlan was also looking at an in-place BC layer for the layout builder data model. This would allow a 1-click switch with the actual migration running over time in the background then. (edited)
catch If we can get the entity data (layout overrides) migration both convenient and correct, and if xb and lb can temporarily co-exist on the same site, then the config migration is just enabling xb and disabling lb in the various places it's in use which can be manual if the rest is automatic and doesn't require hours/days of site downtime. Would much rather spend the effort on the first two parts so that we don't have to worry about trying to automate a config migration which will be impossible with contrib.
neecoe As much as I love layout_builder I dont think it followed conventions how core is built, ie make a module in contrib , if enough people use it then it can be included in core etc. The thing is people trust core a lot and they expect its features to live and last. This assumption has been broken and its not a good feeling. Idk really, perhaps core badly needed a builder but Its a good thing that we are doing things in contrib first.

1️⃣.2️⃣ @longwave “”Prop expressions” - are these a Drupalism? Should we consider a standard, e.g. JSON Pointer or JSONPath?”

Participants:

griffynh, kim.pepper, lauriii, guptahemant, catch, Kristen Pol, balintbrews, abhisekmazumdar, acbramley, neecoe

Comments

griffynh created an issue. See original summary.

griffynh credited abhisekmazumdar.

griffynh credited acbramley.

griffynh credited balintbrews.

griffynh credited catch.

griffynh credited guptahemant.

griffynh credited kim.pepper.

griffynh credited Kristen Pol.

griffynh credited lauriii.

griffynh credited neecoe.

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tim.plunkett
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Status: Active » Fixed

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.