Closed (fixed)
Project:
Documentation
Component:
Correction/Clarification
Priority:
Normal
Category:
Task
Assigned:
Unassigned
Reporter:
Created:
1 Nov 2023 at 17:13 UTC
Updated:
15 Sep 2025 at 22:29 UTC
Jump to comment: Most recent
Currently the Evaluator guide recommends installing PHP separately (as no more is needed to run Drupal with the "quick-start" command). As part of #3398293: Consolidate local development environment documentation to recommend DDEV a discussion was started about whether using DDEV also for evaluation is the way to go.
Discuss the proposal and reach consensus. Update the Evaluator guide if necessary.
Comments
Comment #2
hansfn commentedReposting excerpts from my comments on #3398293: Consolidate local development environment documentation to recommend DDEV:
I do understand that just "downloading a zip file" isn't always true - or simple - but DDEV with it's Docker / WSL dependency is intrusive. Is it interesting to compare numbers - size on disk and so on?
I think an important question is who we think the evaluator is. I don't know, but I assume a typical web developer might already have PHP - no extra installation needed. A typical site builder / "no code" enthusiast might not be very eager to download and install a lot of software just to evaluate (before buying hosting).
Comment #3
hansfn commentedComment #4
ressaFor the evaluator persona, who could be all kinds, such as project leaders, investors, somebody looking for a CMS system as a shop owner, for their developers to use, etc. I think we should aim at the lowest technical knowledge requirements for maximum inclusivity, to lessen the risk of driving away potential users, or decision makers.
With that angle, requiring DDEV and the accompanying Docker fiddling would be too much, in my opinion. Better to stick to just have PHP as requirement, and then use the Quick start command.
Having said that, after the "intro install PHP bit", we could consider adding a sentence, that the Docker-based DDEV option exists, for the technically savvy users?
PS. While we're discussing Drupal Quick Start Command, it has a tendency to freeze hang after a few minutes. It would be great to get that sorted out before too long. #3271178: Quick start command installation stops responding
Comment #5
hansfn commentedIn addition to the tip that I added in the "What's next" section? Or instead of? Anyway, that part of the discussion isn't important / hard.
Comment #6
ressaI missed that it was already mentioned, but that looks great. At first I thought it should be right after the PHP install section, but the current placement works well.
Comment #7
hansfn commentedComment #8
avpadernoComment #9
avpadernoI apologize: That page is not generated from the Official Docs project anymore. It is now a freely editable page.
Comment #10
eojthebraveOne of the original goals of the evaluator guide was to make it easy to throw away when you're done. #2993155: Draft "Evaluator Guide" Outline & Guide. Versus the local development guide which currently recommends ddev where the expectation is you're spinning up a site with the intent of coming back again tomorrow and doing more.
And I think at that time anyway the agreement was that installing Docker + DDEV meant it was no longer easy to just throw everything away when you're done. That said, I also think there's an argument to be made for differentiating between an evaluator who just wants to see what Drupal looks like and poke around in the UI a little (https://simplytest.me ...) versus I guess an evaluator who wants to spend a day or two poking around at some contributed modules and custom code and is looking for something that's a little more permanent than single use. And for whom tooling like Docker, etc. is likely already at least somewhat familiar.
Comment #11
hansfn commentedJust for the record: I created a separate issue - #3399873: Evaluate the whole idea of the Evaluator guide - where I basically say that installing anything locally, isn't easy. I tested a lot on Windows. I use WSL2 + Docker + DDEV myself, but I tried to follow our own advice about quick local installs and it wasn't really easy / robust. I tested other options too.
I have already added the issue as a related issue, but commenting in case that was hard to notice.
Comment #12
nick hope commentedAs someone going through the process of transitioning from (a modified) Acquia Dev Desktop to DDEV, I can say that it has not been straightforward at all. There is a learning curve, especially for Windows users who don't already have WSL2 installed (DDEV currently steers Windows users towards WSL2).
I added a reference to simplytest.me on the Evaluator guide. I have no idea why the simplytest.me page itself doesn't tell you what the admin Username and Password are, so I added those too.
Comment #13
quietone commentedI modified a sentence on the Evaluator Guide, that already referred to DDEV, to direct to the https://www.drupal.org/docs/getting-started/installing-drupal/install-dr... instead of DDEV official docs.
I'd like to think that this change resolves this issue. Further discussion on the page, and the relevance of DDEV, can happen in #3399873: Evaluate the whole idea of the Evaluator guide.
Comment #14
quietone commentedSetting to RTBC based on my previous comment.
Comment #15
avpaderno