Claro - May 4 2022 Meeting in Slack

This meeting takes place every Wednesday at at 3pm UTC (8:30pm IST, 4pm CET, 10am ET, 7am PST). See Time.is to see what that is in your timezone.

The meetings are held using Slack threads in the #admin-ui Slack channel.

UPDATED (transcript added)

Introductions
12 replies

katannshaw
cindytwilliams
javi-er
deviantintegral
ckrina
thejimbirch
saschaeggi
lauriii
mherchel
shaal
rkoller
bnjmnm

***

Claro general status update
➤ Claro is the default admin theme for 9.4.x and 10.0.x :tada:
3 replies

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Congrats! I am working on a post based on Lauri's recollections :)

saschaeggi
https://media3.giphy.com/media/13hxeOYjoTWtK8/giphy-downsized.gif?cid=61...
(2 MB)
https://media3.giphy.com/media/13hxeOYjoTWtK8/giphy-downsized.gif?cid=61...

katannshaw
I can’t wait to add that gif to the transcript!

***

What agenda items would you like to discuss today?
5 replies

ckrina
* Joining the Olivero and the Claro meeting, proposes by Lauri last week
* Layout changes: come ups with a plan
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3076820
* Some direction is needed on how to start the Chips implementation
* https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3222995
Discuss next steps to deprecate Seven
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3084814

katannshaw
@ckrina Is item 1 in your list its own item or a title for the other three linked items?

ckrina
each item of this 4 is its own

katannshaw
Ok thanks.

ckrina
And @lauriii proposed another topic before the meeting: Could use feedback from Claro folks on where Claro blocks should be shipped: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3278674

***

Any further general updates from the maintainers or product managers?
1 reply

lauriii
We did bunch of clean up on the default block configuration for Olivero and Claro. As part of that we opened a follow-up to discuss how we should approach the block configuration for these themes: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C7AB68LJV/p1651673572831919

***

Where can contributors help this week?
2 replies

katannshaw
Note: If you want your item added to a new topic thread, add a thread icon with it

ckrina
This could use some review https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3251709

***

TOPIC 1: Joining the Olivero and the Claro meeting, proposes by Lauri last week (edited)
14 replies

ckrina
This is something @lauriii suggested. Does it makes sense for everybody?

ckrina
Or what’s the goal behind it (edited)

lauriii
We have a lot of folks working on both of the themes so I was thinking it might make sense to combine the efforts into one group

lauriii
I don’t feel strongly about either way but since the mini sprints have also evolved into all the things frontend, I thought it might make sense to try to make these meetings follow the same pattern

katannshaw
I can see it as a good idea as there is overlap in areas.

lauriii
I think this is something where it would be good to get feedback from contributors interested in working on this instead of the maintainers. What is the kind of contributor experience people expect? Do you expect to participate multiple meetings for different core themes or are you interested in having one meeting where we could all discuss about relevant topics to both themes?

lauriii
I would be interested to hear what @thejimbirch, @cindytwilliams, @javi-er and @deviantintegral think about this :slightly_smiling_face:

javi-er
that sound great imo :slightly_smiling_face:

cindytwilliams
I think they should be combined into one meeting. (edited)

lauriii
@katannshaw it seems like people are feeling positive about merging the meetings. I guess we should work with the Olivero maintainers to see if this time works for them. I’m wondering if we should move this to #frontend then?

thejimbirch
Ditto. The Olivero meetings have been turned into Office Hours also, so there seems to be less movement there. I think combining them could up the interest.

thejimbirch
I think it is a great idea, and moving to #frontend might spark even more contribution.

deviantintegral
I don't have a strong opinion either way.

mherchel
yeah, i'm fine w it

***

TOPIC 2: Layout changes: come ups with a plan
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3076820 (edited)
17 replies

ckrina
We discussed this during DrupalCon with several people and we might have a designer interested in helping

ckrina
some things that would need new designs are tabs and paddings for a few elements (to give them a “layer” look&feel)

ckrina
the question I have is how we could coordinate this, because we can’t merge just some changes and not the others, because it woudl look super akward

ckrina
like for example plan this changes only in the D10 (dev) branch and not in D9? (edited)

saschaeggi
Also people love the layout Gin is using, so going in a similar direction might make sense here

lauriii
I’m wondering if we need to try to do some kind of fork where we review and merge multiple issues and then try to land that as a whole to core

lauriii
if we plan to land issues one at a time in core, we need to have a solid plan on how to do that

ckrina
Ok, so I guess we need to define the designs first and the come up with a plan based on what needs to be changed, right?

saschaeggi
Having designs first seems about right to me. Also to know what will be impacted by the changes

lauriii
I agree that coming up with the designs first would be great

saschaeggi
As I don’t know what was discussed at Dcon: maybe you can quickly recap on the direction we want to go? Similar to what we do in Gin oder something different? (edited)

ckrina
We didn’t discussed this DrupalCon, I just tried to gather some people to help here

ckrina
But yeah, Gin’s direction I’d say is what makes sense: what we discussed years ago about layers is what we should ideally do

ckrina
and get rid of the “page” form we’ve had over the last years

ckrina
I guess when we have the team ready we’ll be able to kick this off and maybe we could start with an initial call. Will you be up for that, @saschaeggi?

saschaeggi
@ckrina sure count me in!

mherchel
From the design process in Olivero, I'd recommend limiting feedback at first and then showing to the community. Here's the tl;dr on how we did the design (cc @Jen Witkowski)
Identify stakeholders (we had cristina, dries, gabor, lauri, and some others)
Refine designs, until stakeholders are active
unveil to the community. Timebox feedback loop.
Make changes etc.
Close out ticket move to implementation followup tickets
The goal is to limit the bike-shedding, and provide quick progress towards implementation

***

TOPIC 3: Some direction is needed on how to start the Chips implementation
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3222995
19 replies

ckrina
I know there have been discussions about implementing libraries like Select2 for years, and a long list of accessibility concerns tied to that

ckrina
Some of that information has been gathered here by @bnjmnm and other contributors, but I’m not suer how this could we worked together with this new designs (edited)

ckrina
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3076171
Provide a new library to replace jQuery UI autocomplete

ckrina
It seems like it works more on the “dropdown” element itself and not on how the actual chosen elements might be shown, so that’s why I’m not sure what’s the next steps for the chips itself.

lauriii
I guess ideally we wouldn’t have to implement this on jQuery UI Autocomplete but we failed to replace that for Drupal 10 (edited)

bnjmnm
At the very least I can mention the chips should not be inside an input field. It gets tricky having interactive elements inside a text input. The input can be there for adding values, but the chips should be adjacent to it.

ckrina
ok, then chips should have its design updated then?

ckrina
If so, would it be possible to come up with some examples just to be sure we don’t reinvent the wheel? :slightly_smiling_face:

bnjmnm
I know that this only occurred to me since I saw it somewhere else and thought "oh that's a good way of doing it"... I'll track down where I saw it and comment on the issue.

bnjmnm
Interesting, so it was Wordpress, but I think they recently changed it. This is what I recall seeing a while back
Add-WordPress-Tags-for-new-post.png

bnjmnm
But the current docs show something different, with the chips inside the input https://wordpress.com/support/posts/tags/
WordPress.com SupportWordPress.com Support | Andrew
Organize Posts with Tags
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ckrina
I wonder if @katannshaw has some thoughts regarding accessibility & best practices too here

ckrina
Either way, the design we proposed was based on a lot of examples we found around the web and we assumed it was a best/common practice. But maybe we were wrong, so happy to iterate designs :slightly_smiling_face:

katannshaw
That’s a great question. I can investigate and get back to you, as I haven’t dealt with chips in/around inputs specifically. I would assume that it would be best practice to have them outside of the input so that they can act as a button that’s connected to the input’s id using a matching aria-labelledby attribute.

katannshaw
Otherwise I’m not sure how a screen reader user for instance would know that they’re there.

bnjmnm
Left a comment https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3222995#comment-14504169
Implement chips based autocomplete designs

ckrina
So from what I understand, the concern comes from screen readers, but from a UI perspective it makes the form smaller to place them inside the input. Would it be possible to have a technical solution that solves the first, and goes on the inside-input approach? I guess this would need some time, so happy to leave the question opened :slightly_smiling_face:

bnjmnm
The chips-in-an-input approach is super common, but since a text input doesn't allow interactive child elements such as button, it requires sneakiness. Some of the libraries I reviewed implemented the sneakiness surprisingly well, strategically hiding elements from either eyeballs and/or screenreaders as needed. There was always something that didn't quite work, and had a dropbutton-like fussiness where it was difficult to maintain.

bnjmnm
Since this is already a JavaScript dependent field, we may be able to think of other ways to keep the overall field size down - I can see why you'd want to do that.

***

TOPIC 4: Discuss next steps to deprecate Seven
https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3084814
7 replies

lauriii
The main issue is blocked by https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3278124 which needs backend work
Convert tests that use bartik/seven to olivero/claro

lauriii
In the meanwhile I guess we could try to find maintainers for the Seven project in contrib

katannshaw
@deviantintegral Would you be interested in this contribution? ^^

deviantintegral
@katannshaw meaning maintaining seven, or the above issue?

katannshaw
@deviantintegral Sorry, the above issue (edited)

deviantintegral
Sure, I can take a look

mherchel
I volunteer @deviantintegral to maintain Seven

***

TOPIC 5: Could use feedback from Claro folks on where Claro blocks should be shipped: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3278674
1 reply

ckrina
I wonder how this plays with the idea Dries mentioned about the starter templates?

***

Celebrate Claro and Olivero on a Lullabot podcast? ;)
13 replies

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Would be the perfect match :P possibly with non (former) Lullabots invited as well ;)

andy-blum
@vordude

katannshaw
That’s a great idea @Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Olivero got started at/around a Lullabot podcast after all at the last in-person DrupalCon:)

katannshaw
It did! We’ll definitely bring it up to @vordude pronto. I’m sure there’d be interest in that.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Cc @mherchel

mherchel
ha! Of course I would

saschaeggi
The story of a button...
50 shades of grey/blue...

saschaeggi
Sounds like a fun one! :smile:

vordude
Na. Herchel is out.

vordude
But sure, we could do that I suppose.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)
Yeah I don't know your story if you are teasing Mike or not :p

mherchel
He's teasing. He secretly misses me

***

Continue the conversation in Slack. Thank you for showing up and contributing!
If you have additional questions or comments, please post them here or on the meeting agenda issue: https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3278690