from css/panels.css

div.panel-pane div.node {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

This style seems a little unnecessary, as is doesn't override any specific drupal styles and divs have no padding or margins by default. In addition, it will override all .node padding and margin styles set by there user's theme.

Comments

merlinofchaos’s picture

And yet, it overrides Garland's styles which are quite awful.

kmonty’s picture

I fail to see why overriding Garland is the job of the base Panels.css and not the job of the themer. Maybe you can find a way to insert that css into the head if the install is Garland, otherwise ignore it.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Because Garland is core and is the default theme that everyone sees, and if it's not in there, there will be LOTS of bug reports and confusion. And Garland is evil and uses negative margins on div.node =(

Go ahead, try removing the line and seeing for yourself what Garland does.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Category: task » bug

I'm going to call this a bug because it DOES have a drawback. We might be able to make the CSS more specific to garland or something.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (fixed)

Panels 2.x for Drupal 6 is now deprecated and has been removed. All issues against this version of Panels are being closed.

GuyveR800’s picture

Version: 6.x-2.x-dev » 6.x-3.x-dev
Status: Closed (fixed) » Active

reopening this as it's still an issue for Panels 3.

I'm using Acquia Prosper and this style is causing anything (like a node view) within a panel to be packed together, in stead of having proper padding and margins.

merlinofchaos’s picture

I have already stated why it cannot simply be removed.

GuyveR800’s picture

If Garland is the only reason, it should be made Garland-specific somehow. Or vice-versa, Garland should be adapted to support Panels.

In either case, this general "div.panel-pane div.node" style should be removed.

merlinofchaos’s picture

If Garland is the only reason, it should be made Garland-specific somehow.

I welcome suggestions for how to do this.

Or vice-versa, Garland should be adapted to support Panels.

Have you actually used Drupal before? Do you understand how the Drupal core workflow works? Core does not adapt itself to contrib. Even suggesting it kind of boggles me.

GuyveR800’s picture

Look, there's no need to be condescending. If you have a work-around for fixing every other theme that's broken due to this Garland fix, offer it. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned, this kludge is causing more harm than it's worth.

I'm not an expert on the Drupal internals, but I suppose a submodule that enables this specific Garland-fix would be a possible solution.

As for core adapting to contrib; no doubt there are numerous reasons for getting rid of the negative margins in Garland besides whatever contrib it breaks.

I'm not a professional CSS writer either, so I may be overlooking something, but the only thing I can think of is to manually edit panels.css to remove this style and having to do it manually again every time the Panels module is updated.

The contrary case is someone using Garland with Panels just has to copy/paste this style in his local CSS definition, once.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

Look, there's no need to be condescending. If you have a work-around for fixing every other theme that's broken due to this Garland fix, offer it.

I'm sorry, you're the one opening a 2 year old issue and making demands without interest or concern in the needs of others, and you're telling me I am condescending? If I had a work-around for fixing Garland easily I would've put it in already. If you cannot come up with a solution for Garland, it is absolutely unacceptable to simply demand I break the theme that everybody sees first for your convenience.

Otherwise as far as I'm concerned, this kludge is causing more harm than it's worth.

I've already explained why I disagree with this stance. But see above where you're putting your concerns above the needs of the majority.

I'm not an expert on the Drupal internals, but I suppose a submodule that enables this specific Garland-fix would be a possible solution.

It would have to somehow be enabled automatically. Remember, this is the "first look" case, the people installing this module will not know anything about having to have a garland-specific module to fix the default installation.

As for core adapting to contrib; no doubt there are numerous reasons for getting rid of the negative margins in Garland besides whatever contrib it breaks.

No doubt, but this is not the core or Garland issue queue. I do not have the rights nor authority to make changes to Drupal core. If you want to fight that crusade, more power to you, but I have no interest in doing so.

I'm not a professional CSS writer either, so I may be overlooking something, but the only thing I can think of is to manually edit panels.css to remove this style and having to do it manually again every time the Panels module is updated.

Or in your theme, put a more specific piece of CSS that has a higher priority than the one in Panels. Themes can always override pretty much any contrib or core CSS at any time, which is probably the reason this issue was closed years ago and nobody has really cared to reopen it.

GuyveR800’s picture

Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

OH OH I'm sorry for reopening an existing issue, that was automatically closed simply due to being Panels 2 tagged, in stead of polluting the queue with a duplicate!

This issue affects *everyone* that doesn't use Garland, so I don't see how this is putting my needs above others at all.

Also, you can't just override the CSS with fixed values, because that totally breaks when users are allowed to select different themes, which will have different margin/padding values.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

Unless you can address my core issue, you cannot dismiss it out of hand. If you can't show me how to set up the CSS so that it works with Garland and also works with generic themes, then you have no right to demand I do anything.

I'm not flexible here. If this were a major issue for most people, there would be a LOT more issues about this in the queue. There are not.

GuyveR800’s picture

Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

So you're saying Panels is only for n00bs that use the defaults, or experts that use their own themes exclusively, and everyone else can get lost.

And every n00b that has built his site on Panels and Garland and later wants to experiment with different contrib themes is also lost.

This should be a matter of RTFM and a small copy/paste CSS addition for people installing Panels on Garland, because I believe you seriously underestimate the problems this causes for all the intermediate users out there.

Intermediates on the n00b side will shrug and think the other themes are broken. Intermediates on the expert side will cave in and learn about writing their own themes, or stick with fixed values on different themes.

I am not demanding and have not demanded anything, I'm merely trying to point out an issue that does not have a workable workaround and probably affects many more people than you care to acknowledge.

kmonty’s picture

I looked into finding a garland-specific solution for the css, but there is no easy one. Earl, I agree that making drupal usable to garland users is important, but we should also not make it more difficult for proficient users.

The best solution I can think of is submitting a patch to Drupal Core/Garland to have a body class "garland" so we can make the code body.garland div.panel-pane div.node

That said, this thread is quickly spinning out of control. GuyveR800 - you're not helping. Earl - Maybe you would consider not marking something as "Won't Fix" just because someone is being a jerk? You yourself previously noted this was a bug, it just so happens that it doesn't have a good solution without a patch to core :-/

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

I am not demanding and have not demanded anything

Perhaps you misunderstand how your actions appear, then:

Status: won't fix » active

How am I to interpret this as anything but a demand. You have re-opened this issue over my "won't fix"
twice. Apparently I don't actually have authority over my own module anymore.

an issue that does not have a workable workaround and probably affects many more people than you care to acknowledge.

You can change this IN YOUR THEME. There are many, many ways to do this. Your theme can override the panels.css file entirely (this is trivial, just drop a panels.css file into the theme that does what you want).

It is a rather rare site that can make do with just a stock theme. And even if you want to use a stock theme with minimal modifications, you can always make a subtheme that has just the overrides you want.

This should be a matter of RTFM and a small copy/paste CSS addition for people installing Panels on Garland

In the same message you are too stubborn to modify your theme, you just told me to tell thousands of people to modify a core theme. In a README file. That probably won't be ready by the vast majority of the people who need to see it. Instead, they'll just see Panels broken and think the module sucks and go away. Do you see the inherent contradiction here?

because I believe you seriously underestimate the problems this causes for all the intermediate users out there.

And by the same token, I believe you overestimate the magnitude of the problems.

My evidence: 46,000 theoretically active users (Ref: http://drupal.org/project/usage/panels).
Number of people complaining, in total, since 2008: 2. Note that the first of two stopped complaining in 2008.

Your evidence: Some sense that this is affecting a large number of intermediate users? I assume these intermediate users don't participate in the issue queue.

Find some of them, then. I've seen way too many internet arguments where there are thousands of people who just haven't spoken up who agree with the person making the argument without evidence. It's tiring. This whole argument is a waste of my time. Please do not re-open this issue again unless you can provide a fix for the CSS that makes the Garland override more specific.

Look, people participating in the issue queue have a tendency to assume that the issue they're running into MUST BE affecting everyone. But I'm sorry, this isn't. Most people work around this by fixing, modifying or adding to their theme. The reality is that most themes handle contrib poorly because there's just way too much contrib to really cope with. Many themes already have some CSS to deal with this annoyance in Panels. Those that don't? Can probably add it. Or not. Maybe the theme authors don't care enough. That happens a lot in open source.

Please stop re-opening this issue now. The time I'm spending trying to convince you that I actually have a pretty good feel for the bulk of Panels' users needs could be spent working on getting the next release out. Your time spent responding to me could be better spent adding one line of CSS to whatever theme or themes it is you wish to use.

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

kmonty: fair enough. I can leave it active...but I don't have a solution, and I fear it's just going to sit active for another year (or two).

esmerel’s picture

kmonty - given that it should probably be a fix to garland, do you want to move it to that queue?

GuyveR800’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

I did not actively change the status, all I did was write a comment. I do not know how the status got changed, but I guess the current status did not get updated on the form when the page reloads...

I will try the suggestion to override panels.css entirely, as I did not know this was an option.

Anyway, I resent being called a jerk. While English is not my native tongue, I'm pretty sure the word "should" I've been using does not imply demand (like "must" or "needs to" or "has to"), but expresses expectation.

It would be nice if people were allowed to learn without being accused of being demanding and being called names. :-(

GuyveR800’s picture

Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

Apparently the status got changed while I was writing my reply, carefully trying NOT to change it again :(

GuyveR800’s picture

Ok, turns out overriding panels.css requires changes to the theme's .info file, which is just as bad as editing panels.css directly, because it will be overwritten with an update. Due to bugs in D6, you can't subtheme a subtheme so that's not an option either. Even if you could, it's a pretty advanced technique.

As for the 'evidence'. How many of those are using Garland? How many of those are using Garland because other themes don't work?
It seems to me pretty much everyone using Panels is forced to create a custom theme. Very user friendly to those who are not advanced enough to do that, but would like to get away from Garland...

If Panels was (partly?) designed to not need custom .tpl files for complex layouts, it makes no sense to me to require creation of a whole custom theme. Again, it leaves everyone but absolute n00bs and experts in the dark.

It took me days to figure out why my node view was being squashed in a panel, but not outside it. Finally I installed Firebug, figured out how to use it, compared the precise CSS for both pages, found out Panels was doing it, searched the issue queue, found an existing issue covering the problem, only to be treated badly.
Already way too many steps for a less advanced user, and not very friendly either.
A mention in KNOWN_ISSUES.txt would've already cut down on the debugging steps considerably.

Remember: It's not possible to remove CSS rules simply, but it IS possible to ADD rules simply!

Would it be possible for Panels to move this CSS to a separate class and only include the class when Garland is enabled?

Also I don't see why a separately enabled Garland-fix module wouldn't be a solution. Panels INSTALL.txt already tells you you have to enable other modules besides core Panels, because it "only provides an API". One extra tick in the same step isn't going to hurt anyone, is it?

merlinofchaos’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

Ok, turns out overriding panels.css requires changes to the theme's .info file

Overriding that file completely does require change to a .info file, but just adding a CSS directive that is more specific does not.

I've decided not to leave this open. I'm not changing it.