I have been banned by the admin of the IRC channels. I know that the cause of this was a misunderstanding, and the assumption that I insulted some people. Problem is, that the people I insulted were not insulted and most members did not understand why I was banned and came to my defense, including, but not limited to Bdragon, Michelle, Webchick, cwgordon7 and a few others. Even litwol who I had a disagreement with the day before said that he didn't think that this deserved a perminant ban and that chx is "trigger happy". I had received what everyone was saying about me via private messages, with multiple individuals. I also had multiple people have "private" conversations with the admin of the channel relayed back to me. All of this was confirmed by multiple people.

After it was established that I did NOT insult any woman, it then turned into a discussion of my level of Karma, and me asking "Stupid Questions". All of this was said by CHX and others, and had been confirmed by multiple sources after the instance. The fact is, that in 1 month time, Ive had a single arguement, that was a direct result of comments made to me by multiple individuals about a module that I had just submitted. This has been an isolated instance, and has been takin out of context, and elivated to a level it did not need to go.

In addition their is no policy or procedure established (that I know of) to review and or dispute a decision made by the moderators. Also it is well known that the IRC #drupal channel has members that enforce a "you got to earn our support and help" attitude; This is a bad attitude to have, and is a disruptive aspect of the Drupals community.

In addition, every "stupid" question I ask, I try and answer 10 questions in return. I do this most often between 3-5AM EST, were there is a void of people answering questions. I can not provide this service of helping others, if I am banned.

Lastly the reasons why I was banned keep changing, and the most valid reason (that I was argumentative) was due to miscommunication. I have no interest in intentionally arguing or hurting anyone. I often debate about issues, but I do not take these issues as personal attacks, and I do not ever intentionally attack anyone. If what I said has hurt someone, and it becomes known to me, I appoligize, and have done so in both circumstances.

I am a programmer, not a English lit major. I also joke around, and try to have fun. I feel that the community as a whole should act like a team, rather then based on seniority and brownie points. It is everyones responsibility to work as a team, and when issues arise, they are usually easy to resolve when dealing with someone like me. If I'm told that I am being offensive or have hurt someone I am quick to apologize. I would like to work on helping people and working with the community to work as a team, and to have better acceptance of new comers, and their ideas.

Comments

vm’s picture

vm commented

because chx seems to be responsible for the ban, I'd think you out to open a line of communication with him rather then posting these long threads in the issue query.

I'd also avoid the "you know better" type statements you are making with regards to how communities are/should be run and what is acceptable or not acceptable in any one IRC channel.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

Some people will come and say I irritated them... I welcome their posts... Thoose that are irritated easily are thoose that create an unfriendly environment. Its not the person who is defending himself that is the problem, its the ones that attack others... it is clear who these people are... the moderation and focus on the social environment within IRC has to change, or else no one will join the community...

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

I preach tolerance, teamwork, and communication! Yet somehow I am acting as a rebel?!? Someone who is a know it all? No wonder why people are so tippy toed around here. Every statement is picked apart... THATS THE PROBLEM! As far as I know, this is a community. People are placed in positions with responsibilities. Chx is one of thoose people. He is not always right. He has his perspective and like me he can be wrong. He is not willing to communicate, and I have yet to be given a procedure in place regarding what is required to be banned. The rules we must follow, and anyway to overturn such a decision. If CHX is IRC god, then I will probably never be let back in.

vm’s picture

vm commented

I disagree whole heartedly with your assumptions. Drupal grows continuously despite them.

A community is like a city, you have all different walks of life, personality traits and the like. chx has the ability to ban because of his status in the drupal community. Which, while you don't hold any value in, others do.

chx should be contacted and this should be worked out with him. These types of public posts essentially continuing to chastise don't help your case. The title of this issue alone reads in a demanding way.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

I think I need to shake things up... We are a community, but we must act as a team. Thoose that are so sensitive that they must take every statement to heart are the ones that should be watched and warned. These people have to grow up... 99% of the people in this world have no intention of hurting anyone. These discussions are written text, people apply their own feelings to them. They do not hear the tone in my voice, or see the concern in my eyes.

I have no intention of hurting anyone... unfortunately there is allot of pride in here, and a challenge to that pride will upset some... Pride is an ugly emotion. If I could say what I am saying in any better manor, then I would... I can not convey my point in any other way. I am not a politician... I am a computer programmer... I suck at writing...

*edited: fixed a spelling mistake! Hurting not Hearting.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

I can not convey my point as well as some others, so I will quote some passages...

Reaction
"The greatest threat to emotional well being is not from the outside but within. It is not what other people do or say that causes me pain -- but the manor in which I react -- The problem is not their actions but my reaction. I cannot control them, but I can control myself"

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

"When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation--some fact of my life--unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

"Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace."--Buddha

"You have to accept whatever comes, and the only important thing is that you meet it with courage and with the best that you have to give."--Eleanor Roosevelt

"By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song. Dream your dream. Hope your hope and pray your prayer."--Pakenham Beatty

Essentially a striving community is one that continually works to be better. It is a community that learns to accept one and another. A healthy community is one were people accept themselves. People who say their sorry are the ones you want in your community... the ones that wake up every day and ask themselves, how can I help my fellow man, and what do I need to do to improve myself for today.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

BTW, anyone who reads this and thinks I dont practice what I preach, is right... I am not perfect... I failed on a number of occasions to meet the goals I set above. Every day I fail at this... I react, I fail to accept, or I earn my anger. I become prideful, jealous, or hateful.

The ONLY thing I can claim is that if there is a tomorrow I will try to do better then today.

vm’s picture

vm commented

I suggest you do more to help on the forums. If you put your best foot forward notice will be taken. IRC is not the only place drupal can be supported.

webchick’s picture

webchick
she/they
Primary language English
Location Vancouver 🇨🇦
commented

I don't think you're being entirely truthful in your version of what happened here. While one could argue that chx jumped the gun in banning you, you were by absolutely no means innocent in this matter.

You were /repeatedly/ and /vocally/ abrasive, argumentative, and disrespectful, both to specific individuals, and to the Drupal community as a whole. I think everyone, including the individuals you quoted as being in support of you, will attest to this. Several individuals, including myself, spent many, many hours of their lives trying to help you by giving you tips on how to integrate better into the meritocracy-based reality that is any open source community. In nearly all cases, our efforts were either ignored, ridiculed, or outright dismissed. I can pull out logs to illustrate this if we really need to go there.

Energy and focus are the life-blood of any open source community, and protecting it is of an extremely high priority to anyone wearing a "community manager" hat. There comes a certain threshold where more energy/focus is being invested in trying to keep an individual from derailing efforts of other contributors than that individual is possibly going to make up for in contributions of their own. Apparently, it was chx's opinion that you finally crossed that threshold. Would I have drawn the line in exactly the same place? Probably not. But there's no denying that it was only a matter of time before it was universally agreed that the threshold was crossed, assuming you continued along your current course. And given that in your words above, I read absolutely *no* owning of any sort of responsibility in the resulting consequences--merely deflecting responsibility since you are "not a English lit major" (as if any of us are, or as if you need to be one in order to show basic respect?)--you are not exactly doing much at all to help your defense.

So I can only echo what VeryMisunderstood has suggested.. that you *respectfully* engage chx in a dialog and try to convince him to change his mind, and knock off this martyr trip that really isn't convincing anyone.

chx’s picture

chx commented
Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

After a lot of serious contributors of Drupal tried to help and you more or less ignored them I warned you. Later that day you insulted someone bad and then apparently apologized which was accepted but by then you were under warning.

You have been called an "attention vampire" and much worse by someone whose life purpose seems to be to help people contributing to Drupal.

If I made a mistake then it was not banning you earlier.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented
Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

I acknowledge that I was apart of the problem. I failed to accept the people in chat as who they are. I failed at accepting the continued critisims of my work. I failed at allot of things. All I can do is try better the next time. I can not claim to be perfect, all I can claim is that I will try better the next time

Chx, if you were to ban me earlier then I could not claim that the timing was so off. I was banned when I wasn't doing anything wrong. Granted I was offended at the critism of my contribution. I was hurt by the fact that I tried my best to give and all I got was critical statements. I was tollerent at first, and tried my best to be understanding, but as the day wore on, so did my compassion. Eventually I lost it and I was apart of the arguement.

It takes 2 people to argue. Either person could of stopped it, in that we both failed.

vm’s picture

vm commented
Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

the decision has been made. continuing this is only putting at risk your drupal.org account.

focus your efforts on the drupal support forums where you can put your best foot forward and show a desire to create change.

chx’s picture

chx commented

Please be aware that you are the first banned from #drupal who tries to contribute. This decision was not made lightly and I am not happy over it but I believe it is better for the community.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented
Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

right now I do want attention to this problem. I have seen communities fall apart because of this. At first its the new comers that are attacked. Later the community as a whole turns against each other. (at this point there are no new comers, since they all get treated like I am and run away). II have seen it time and time again. Chx I want you to be aware of this. Dispite what may come of me, I want you to walk away with the understanding that encouraging acceptance is the best solution. diffuse problems...

I wonder what would of happened if you brought these issues to my attention in a direct and private manor. You hinted at the problems, but its not until recently do I have a clue that I hurt someone before this occcurance. I know what would of happened if you addressed the issue with me privately before it got to this point. The situation would of stopped. The actions taken were not direct, but was subtle hints by a few members here and there. Your right, Litwol said allot of things. He has out right lied to me after the incident occurred. The problem was between me and litwol, and it is not getting any better.

Maybe you need to come up with a procedure of how you ban someone. I would encourage that you address them directly, WAY before it gets to this point. Provide a real warning, and not a subtle suggestion. Then if it continues, you impose a temporary ban. If that doesn't work, then a outright ban.

Of course their are Trolls out their, but they are quick to find. They do not participate in the community for over a month. I would also suggest that you keep in mind that it takes 2 to argue. This was the first time that I engaged in an argument. I have had discussions with people. I never had the understanding that they became arguments. I guess I just dont care enough about linux or windows to take any discussion about either one of them as merely fooling around. In fact, in my life, very few things get me upset. A few days ago was the first time I did, and thats when I appoligize. I just don't take anything that serous. If I can not change it, I accept it...

People who call other people "attention vampires" are not people I want as friends. They are intolerant, angry, and sensitive. Their is no winning with them. The best approach when participating in a social environment like Drupals IRC, is to simply shut your mouth. Not to say ANYTHING! even if what you see is a valid concern, do not bring it up...

The best PERSONAL approach for ME would be to shut up, and not have this posted issue. But at this point I dont care what happens to me. What I do care about is not seeing Drupal fail like postNuke did, phpNuke, and many others... Why do you think Joomla resulted? It was a fork based on an internal social environment that turned on itself. I see very few large scale open source applications that continue to develop without forking. Eventually one of them dies, and if lucky one of them continues. No one wins when the community eats itself... the solution to this is a constant focus on growing a healthy social environment.

An environment that constantly works to improve team work, acceptance, understanding, and a positive attitude is the best approach to avoid internal collapse. I have researched this issue quite allot, and have seen websites die, as well as many open source projects. This is the first time I have stood up and said WATCH OUT!

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

"Please be aware that you are the first banned from #drupal who tries to contribute. This decision was not made lightly and I am not happy over it but I believe it is better for the community."

Isnt it ironic that the incident in question was a direct result of my contribution? Didnt I ask you to give my contribution away, to take away my CVS account. I said that because of the situation and harassment I received when I did contribute. I asked for it to stop, but it didnt... nothing changed... the harassment continued.

vm’s picture

vm commented
Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

Joomla forked from mambo because of a license disagreement not because of a community problem. This problem you claim to see is your perception, I don't believe you are an authority on communities. Nor do I believe you should be so arrogant as to speak for people enmasse as you are.

This is the last time I am setting this to won't fix as per previous settings. You've been warned.

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented
Status: Closed (won't fix) » Fixed

Fixed...

I am gone... cya... Have fun with drupal...

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

1st) Please give my project(s) that I submitted to another individual. I have no intention of hurting any open source applications, nor do I expect to be treated and or act as a troll.

2nd) Feel free to close this account, I have no interest in participating in Drupal.org! I am sorry, but these steps were not appropriated.

3rd) If you consider me an expert at something or not is your decision not mine. I will not establish my expertise.

Lastly, I never intended to change the Status. I am sorry that the state of "wont fix" is not established correctly. See properly designed user interfaces wouldn't contain these errors. When someone sets something as "wont fix" then it should remain that from my side. However it continued to set the Status field to "active" and I never checked it. Very Misunderstood, you are warning me, however to insure that proper state is established is one of the Drupals community to be solved. I am not going to come up with the details in which this state fails to keep itself identified.

It is easy to develop a "good" user interface, however problems like this prevent the Drupal.org interface from beign an "great" UI. Then to blame me for this failure is in accordance with the actions and decision making process that is contained with in this issue.

The fact is that the issue of resolving my status within the Drupal community has been resolved and fixed by myself (I am removing myself from the community). However as a last act of service for drupal, I am opening up the discussion of what you guys can do to improve the process to prevent such situations in the present.

Personally I would recommend a written process of banning someone from any resource within Drupal. I would also establish the ability to have an independent review of such actions. Lastly I would continually revisit this written process to ensure that it meets the needs of the community as a whole.

If you beleive that I am not an "expert" in these area's, then I recommend you read about TQM (total quality management), and the established and well documented approaches to improving system quality. I have a number of books I would suggest reading.

Bringing out the Best in People by Aubrey C. Daniels ---AMAZING!
The Human Interface by Raskin ---AMAZING!
Principles of Total Quality, Third Edition by Vincent K. Omachonu
Community building, emergent design and expecting the unexpected: Creating a quality eLearning experience [An article from: The Internet and Higher Education] by T.L thomshon and C.J. MacDonald
Community Building on the Web : Secret Strategies for Successful Online Communities by Amy Jo Kim
Teamwork Is an Individual Skill: Getting Your Work Done When Sharing Responsibility by Christopher M. Avery, Meri Aaron Walker, and Erin O'Toole
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams by Kimball Fisher and Mareen Duncan Fisher

After your done with these books, I recommend spending about 5 years of your life researching the effects of how UI effects team work, how team work effects quality and how Team work effects Social Networks. Also spend a ton of time on allot of social networks. I recommend you look carefully at the health of the large social networks such as TomsHardware, OCForums, DailyStrength, MySpace, OkCupid, Yahoo Groups, A number of IRC channels (PHP, CSS, Apache, Linux), Microsoft.com, Facebook, Ebay, Amazon, NewEgg, NetFlix, BlockBuster, about 20 different internal Intranet CMS systems, Email, and of course the effects of Instant Messangers, Email and other communication methods on the internet. (for example, try correcting someones Spelling on any of the above resources and see how far you get)! I would also suggest you study the history of quality and real life social environments of Kodak, Xerox, GM, Toyota through out time. Just to start out with... Then we can get into the meat packaging industry, K-Mart, Walmart, HomeDepot, Wegmans, etc!

Pay attention to the small details, the books I outlined will help you focus yourself on what to start looking for :-p

After you have done this all, then maybe you can have a real intellectual conversation with me about these details rather then the simple finger pointing that has happened. I hope someone else reads this, with some amount of experience and time spent researching and understanding such situations. I personally can not outline and explain all of this within this simple and short post!

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented
Status: Fixed » Active

1st) Please give my project(s) that I submitted to another individual. I have no intention of hurting any open source applications, nor do I expect to be treated and or act as a troll.

2nd) Feel free to close this account, I have no interest in participating in Drupal.org! I am sorry, but these steps were not appropriated.

3rd) If you consider me an expert at something or not is your decision not mine. I will not establish my expertise.

Lastly, I never intended to change the Status. I am sorry that the state of "wont fix" is not established correctly. See properly designed user interfaces wouldn't contain these errors. When someone sets something as "wont fix" then it should remain that from my side. However it continued to set the Status field to "active" and I never checked it. Very Misunderstood, you are warning me, however to insure that proper state is established is one of the Drupals community to be solved. I am not going to come up with the details in which this state fails to keep itself identified.

It is easy to develop a "good" user interface, however problems like this prevent the Drupal.org interface from beign an "great" UI. Then to blame me for this failure is in accordance with the actions and decision making process that is contained with in this issue.

The fact is that the issue of resolving my status within the Drupal community has been resolved and fixed by myself (I am removing myself from the community). However as a last act of service for drupal, I am opening up the discussion of what you guys can do to improve the process to prevent such situations in the present.

Personally I would recommend a written process of banning someone from any resource within Drupal. I would also establish the ability to have an independent review of such actions. Lastly I would continually revisit this written process to ensure that it meets the needs of the community as a whole.

If you beleive that I am not an "expert" in these area's, then I recommend you read about TQM (total quality management), and the established and well documented approaches to improving system quality. I have a number of books I would suggest reading.

Bringing out the Best in People by Aubrey C. Daniels ---AMAZING!
The Human Interface by Raskin ---AMAZING!
Principles of Total Quality, Third Edition by Vincent K. Omachonu
Community building, emergent design and expecting the unexpected: Creating a quality eLearning experience [An article from: The Internet and Higher Education] by T.L thomshon and C.J. MacDonald
Community Building on the Web : Secret Strategies for Successful Online Communities by Amy Jo Kim
Teamwork Is an Individual Skill: Getting Your Work Done When Sharing Responsibility by Christopher M. Avery, Meri Aaron Walker, and Erin O'Toole
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams by Kimball Fisher and Mareen Duncan Fisher

After your done with these books, I recommend spending about 5 years of your life researching the effects of how UI effects team work, how team work effects quality and how Team work effects Social Networks. Also spend a ton of time on allot of social networks. I recommend you look carefully at the health of the large social networks such as TomsHardware, OCForums, DailyStrength, MySpace, OkCupid, Yahoo Groups, A number of IRC channels (PHP, CSS, Apache, Linux), Microsoft.com, Facebook, Ebay, Amazon, NewEgg, NetFlix, BlockBuster, about 20 different internal Intranet CMS systems, Email, and of course the effects of Instant Messangers, Email and other communication methods on the internet. (for example, try correcting someones Spelling on any of the above resources and see how far you get)! I would also suggest you study the history of quality and real life social environments of Kodak, Xerox, GM, Toyota through out time. Just to start out with... Then we can get into the meat packaging industry, K-Mart, Walmart, HomeDepot, Wegmans, etc!

Pay attention to the small details, the books I outlined will help you focus yourself on what to start looking for :-p

After you have done this all, then maybe you can have a real intellectual conversation with me about these details rather then the simple finger pointing that has happened. I hope someone else reads this, with some amount of experience and time spent researching and understanding such situations. I personally can not outline and explain all of this within this simple and short post!

GreenJelly’s picture

GreenJelly commented

1st) Please give my project(s) that I submitted to another individual. I have no intention of hurting any open source applications, nor do I expect to be treated and or act as a troll.

2nd) Feel free to close this account, I have no interest in participating in Drupal.org! I am sorry, but these steps were not appropriated.

3rd) If you consider me an expert at something or not is your decision not mine. I will not establish my expertise.

Lastly, I never intended to change the Status. I am sorry that the state of "wont fix" is not established correctly. See properly designed user interfaces wouldn't contain these errors. When someone sets something as "wont fix" then it should remain that from my side. However it continued to set the Status field to "active" and I never checked it. Very Misunderstood, you are warning me, however to insure that proper state is established is one of the Drupals community to be solved. I am not going to come up with the details in which this state fails to keep itself identified.

It is easy to develop a "good" user interface, however problems like this prevent the Drupal.org interface from beign an "great" UI. Then to blame me for this failure is in accordance with the actions and decision making process that is contained with in this issue.

The fact is that the issue of resolving my status within the Drupal community has been resolved and fixed by myself (I am removing myself from the community). However as a last act of service for drupal, I am opening up the discussion of what you guys can do to improve the process to prevent such situations in the present.

Personally I would recommend a written process of banning someone from any resource within Drupal. I would also establish the ability to have an independent review of such actions. Lastly I would continually revisit this written process to ensure that it meets the needs of the community as a whole.

If you beleive that I am not an "expert" in these area's, then I recommend you read about TQM (total quality management), and the established and well documented approaches to improving system quality. I have a number of books I would suggest reading.

Bringing out the Best in People by Aubrey C. Daniels ---AMAZING!
The Human Interface by Raskin ---AMAZING!
Principles of Total Quality, Third Edition by Vincent K. Omachonu
Community building, emergent design and expecting the unexpected: Creating a quality eLearning experience [An article from: The Internet and Higher Education] by T.L thomshon and C.J. MacDonald
Community Building on the Web : Secret Strategies for Successful Online Communities by Amy Jo Kim
Teamwork Is an Individual Skill: Getting Your Work Done When Sharing Responsibility by Christopher M. Avery, Meri Aaron Walker, and Erin O'Toole
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams
The Distributed Mind: Achieving High Performance Through the Collective Intelligence of Knowledge Work Teams by Kimball Fisher and Mareen Duncan Fisher

After your done with these books, I recommend spending about 5 years of your life researching the effects of how UI effects team work, how team work effects quality and how Team work effects Social Networks. Also spend a ton of time on allot of social networks. I recommend you look carefully at the health of the large social networks such as TomsHardware, OCForums, DailyStrength, MySpace, OkCupid, Yahoo Groups, A number of IRC channels (PHP, CSS, Apache, Linux), Microsoft.com, Facebook, Ebay, Amazon, NewEgg, NetFlix, BlockBuster, about 20 different internal Intranet CMS systems, Email, and of course the effects of Instant Messangers, Email and other communication methods on the internet. (for example, try correcting someones Spelling on any of the above resources and see how far you get)! I would also suggest you study the history of quality and real life social environments of Kodak, Xerox, GM, Toyota through out time. Just to start out with... Then we can get into the meat packaging industry, K-Mart, Walmart, HomeDepot, Wegmans, etc!

Pay attention to the small details, the books I outlined will help you focus yourself on what to start looking for :-p

After you have done this all, then maybe you can have a real intellectual conversation with me about these details rather then the simple finger pointing that has happened. I hope someone else reads this, with some amount of experience and time spent researching and understanding such situations. I personally can not outline and explain all of this within this simple and short post!

morbus iff’s picture

morbus iff
they/them
commented
Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)
vm’s picture

vm commented
Status: Closed (won't fix) » Closed (fixed)

account blocked per users wishes.