Hi, coming at you from the Drupal Community Working Group. I'm sad that I even have to file this issue, but nonetheless...
Posts like this do not belong on Drupal Planet. While anyone is free to post whatever they want on their own blog, sarcasm-filled, thinly-veiled personal attacks go against our Code of Conduct, and the negative fallout they have on the wider community (most of whom have absolutely no context for what's being talked about there) is palpable, so it makes no sense for Drupal.org to broadcast them to 50,000+ people. This does not seem to be explicitly disallowed by the current Planet Guidelines, but this seems like an oversight.
Suggested text, per greggles in #6:
"Like all interactions with the Drupal community, posts to the Planet should follow the Drupal Code of Conduct."
Comments
Comment #1
webchickComment #2
webchickTagging for the Drupal.org Content Working Group per https://drupal.org/governance/drupalorg-working-groups/content, who afaik maintains this policy now.
Comment #3
dddave commentedAbout this post:
I do agree that this post is snarky and puts the spotlight on an issue in a not really constructive way. Is it helpful? Debatable. Does it perhaps show a growing frustration shared by others? Debatable.
Does this constitute a personal attack? I think chx specifically chose not to link to an issue and not to name names which makes that point at least in my understanding mood.
However it definitely is not "collaborative".
Even without the CoC there can be a point made that this post doesn't belong on the Planet as its value for (at least parts) of the overall community is pretty much non-existent.
Specifically instrumenting the CoC for this specific takedown request (I guess you would want only this post removed and not the whole feed) feels too much to me.
(side-note: I find it quite funny that this issue is caused by a post by chx who himself is not shy to request bans for community members "obstructing" core issues.)
In general:
1. In any case the CoC is relevant to all community affairs doesn't it? Do we specifically mention it everywhere?
2. We do have to be careful not to make the CoC a tool for censorship. If chx removes the snark and adds some context would the post be ok? Who is it to decide where "attacking" starts and raising community/leadership relevant issues ends? Can leadership be critiqued or is this "not collaborative". (This point might be specifically relevant to posts critical of core decisions. Per definition those decisions tend to be made by leadership+a certain number of devs engaged in core development. Taking a stand against those decisions seems to be automatically "not collaborative". We have to be careful to avoid painting disagreement as against the CoC. Please note that this specific post by chx is imho NOT Planet material. This is not a chx defense.)
3. We do have to be VERY careful not to make the CoC a PERCEIVED tool for censorship. If people get the impression the CoC is misused to curb critique on institutions (Assoc, Working Groups etc), companies or leadership the toxic effects might be as big as leaving a post on the Planet.
Comment #4
dddave commentedJust noticed that if CoC is always relevant (which I think) my points in 2/3 are more general issues with the CoC. tl;dr: We need to be careful how to use the CoC hammer.
Another point: How do we go on here? Certainly the content team is not expected to proofread and police the Planet. Usually if someone deems content not Planet worthy this person comments on the post itself and afterwards (if not sufficiently addressed) raises an issue in the content queue. What would be a good procedure in this case? Webchick commenting on the post requesting to remove it from the Planet would certainly look and feel odd...
(addition to be clear: I do think the specific post by chx can be removed due to content problems alone. No need to use the CoC to argue for it. I want to stress that I think using the CoC here is contra-productive but that the CoC is applicable for Planet posts even without specifically mentioning it.)
Comment #5
webchickMaybe it's true that it's not necessary to specifically mention it. I just thought since the Drupal Planet guidelines mention a few specific things that are not allowed, this would be an easy and rather obvious one to add.
I'm not interested in using the CoC as a tool for censorship. I don't want chx's feed removed from Drupal Planet. I don't even want chx to not be able to post sarcastic rants to his own blog. I just do not want Drupal.org to be a vehicle through which said rants are disseminated, because the CoC is a contract in our community of how we are to behave with one another. As such, Drupal.org should not be pushing out content that is inconsiderate, disrespectful, and un-collaborative.
If it's possible for chx to edit his post so that it conforms to the CoC (which would effectively amount to re-writing the entire thing, since there's not really a single word of it that is constructive), that would be an acceptable solution. Unpublishing the individual post from d.o/planet would also be an acceptable solution.
But I'm not here specifically about that post (the damage is already done), what I'm after is a guideline change so if such a post were to occur again someday, it would be dealt with however posts containing press releases or hiring announcements or anything else that's explicitly disallowed are dealt with. (Which seems like someone who caught it would create an issue in this queue reporting it, after which time a moderator would take action.)
Comment #6
gregglesI think it would be appropriate to add something to the planet guidelines like "Like all interactions with the Drupal community, posts to the Planet should follow the Code of Conduct." It's true that it is covered since everything is covered, but I see no harm in the repetition when the message being repeated is such an important one.
Comment #7
webchick+1 that would work for me.
Comment #8
laura s commentedI think it's obvious that the DCOC would apply to the Planet posts and see no harm in adding it as a provision in the Planet guidelines.
However, I'd like to voice a concern.
chx's post is a rant that does not name anyone or any issue, so I and the vast vast majority of people would see no ad hominem attack or harassment. However, as many of us know, that's not proof there isn't any. I assume there's context of which I'm not aware and this post resonates with one or more persons as potential harassment. But if that's the case, then let the claim be made as the DCOC provides.
What concerns me is addressing a particular instance of concern with nonspecific global policy statements that tread awfully close to community censorship. I would like to see us all (the community) act with great restraint, especially when it comes to making subjective judgments like labeling a statement as "un-collaborative". It sounds very much like the "unmutual" accusation in The Prisoner (c.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_prisoner).
To take different examples, one might argue that any mention of Backdrop CMS is un-collaborative, so do we ban all posts that mention it? Is disagreement itself un-collaborative and therefore actionable? Who decides what's un-collaborative? The majority? A few select judges? It's one thing to demand of everyone civility, which is only right and good. But if we go beyond to demand collaboration in all things, and flag disagreement in itself as unacceptable (which we're flirting with here, as there is no specific harassment claim), I feel we would end up irreparably harming the community.
Comment #9
webchickIf the post in question was only un-collaborative, and not also inconsiderate, disrespectful, and so on, I don't think the CoC would hold. But it is all of those things. Even without the context to know who specifically the post is about, it is very clearly calling people who work on core something between unbelievably stupid, spineless, and/or deliberately underhanded.
The Backdrop argument feels like strawman to me; I've never once seen anyone citing CoC as a reason to not allow discussion on Backdrop on Drupal Planet, and there have been many such posts. If a post supported Backdrop by talking about how the people working on core are completely incompetent idiots (as this post does), then that would obviously be different.
One can discuss incredibly controversial things, as well as be incredibly critical of community leadership, without resorting to these kind of tactics. That's not the kind of community we are. The CoC is a promise to anyone who participates in our community that even though there are times we might disagree heavily, and even though we are all fiercely passionate about what we do and tempers can get hot, we still maintain a baseline of respect for one another in our interactions. Since Drupal Planet is one such avenue for interaction (and one that has incredible reach of 50K+ people), all I'm asking is for the guidelines that apply to all other interactions on d.o to apply there, too.
Comment #10
laura s commentedAs for red herrings, "never once seen anyone citing CoC as a reason to not allow discussion on Backdrop on Drupal Planet" gets back to who decides, because what's "inconsiderate" or "disrespectful", not to mention the other criteria in the CoC, can be very subjective. It's fuzzy.
If this issue is simply about whether the CoC should apply, it seems there's a consensus, and chx's post has nothing to do with it.
But if this is about whether chx's post is actionable, I feel the issue summary should be updated to reflect that, and let the community decide according to the CoC, because what comes of this will be precedent for future posts.
Personally I feel the CoC is a policy to prevent harassment, but not a cause for a right not to be offended. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do feel that protecting free speech within the community is a worthwhile value as well.
Comment #11
webchickNo, as I already said, I'm not asking for any action to be taken on the post in question. The damage is already done, and more of it to Drupal as a whole and chx himself than to the people it was directed at, honestly. I'm simply trying to apply a patch to the process so we can try and avoid another such a situation in the future. Sounds like there is general agreement on that point, so updating the issue summary with greggles's language and marking this RTBC.
As far as "who decides," in the vast majority of cases (just like the vast majority of press releases, "Oh I'm having fun," and other things cited as "not welcome" on the Planet Guidelines) it's going to be pretty clear-cut yes or no either way, so I'd expect the Drupal Planet moderators would just take care of it amongst themselves. If it's a truly subjective/fuzzy case, it would be escalated to the Community Working Group to make a call on as a group, since they maintain the CoC.
Comment #12
laura s commented+1 on the proposed clarification. Do we need more to implement?
Comment #13
gregglesUpdated to include a link and clarify which Code of Conduct this is.
In terms of "Do we need more to implement?" I'd say we need about another week to wait for more feedback since it was RTBC on the 23rd and we're not at 2 weeks yet and within the 2 weeks was a significant holiday for a significant portion of d.o users.
Comment #14
gdemetChanges to Drupal.org policies regarding content are implemented by the Content Working Group based on community consensus. This additional text sounds good to me, and assuming there are no major objections, we'll go ahead and make the addition by the end of the year. Thanks, everyone!
Comment #15
eaton commentedThe text has been rolled into the new Planet guidelines at #2089285: For Review: Updated Drupal Planet guidelines, and I believe they're the last proposed change to integrate.
I'll post to this issue when the new guidelines go live.
Comment #16
webchickRock! Thanks, eaton.
Comment #17
eaton commented#2089285: For Review: Updated Drupal Planet guidelines has been marked as fixed; the guidelines at https://drupal.org/planet/guidelines are now updated. Thanks!
Comment #18
webchickGuess that means this is fixed. :)