Spin-off from #632100: Use Stark as default theme for Minimal install profile
Problem
- Quoting @Dries from #1181776-34: Change theme_default variable to Stark:
(with minor edits to keep the summary sane)Who is the primary user [of Minimal profile] and what are their expectations?
If the target audience is web developers looking to build a Drupal website from scratch, this make sense. (Pretty much all the people in this issue.)
If most users are evaluators and site builders trying out Drupal to see if it is a good fit, it may not make sense. (The people are not represented in this issue.)
Right now, the minimal profile is advertised as "Start with only a few modules enabled.". This doesn't avoid evaluators from using it -- as an evaluator this looks like a perfectly valid choice. Selecting the minimal theme would result in a disappointment as my expectations are not met.
In other words, [...] we [...][should] change the description for the "Minimal install profile".
Goal
- Change Minimal profile's description to clarify its intention.
- Potentially change Minimal profile's name, since "Minimal" is not clear to everyone
| Comment | File | Size | Author |
|---|---|---|---|
| #20 | drupal8.minimal.20.patch | 439 bytes | sun |
| #18 | minimal.18.png | 21.43 KB | sun |
| #15 | minimal.13.png | 14.9 KB | sun |
| #13 | drupal8.minimal.13.patch | 445 bytes | sun |
| #7 | minimal.7.patch | 753 bytes | sun |
Comments
Comment #1
robloachhttp://drupal.org/project/framework is already a namespace that's taken. Maybe we turn the Framework theme for Drupal 8 into the Framework install profile?
Comment #2
sunActually, carefully reading @Dries' comment...
(emphasis added)
Comment #3
sun"Start from scratch, with required modules and basic output only."
Comment #4
sunScreenshot:
Comment #5
robloachYay! Minimal is now minimal.
Comment #6
dries commentedNot 100% on 'basic output only'. I'm not sure that means much to a newbie.
How about this for Minimum
"No features pre-configured, no dummy content".
For Standard we could do:
"Commonly used features pre-configured, no dummy content".
We should probably then make a Demo profile that could read:
"Commonly used features pre-configured, dummy content created".
If so, we can probably visualize this a bit better.
Comment #7
sunHm. I will do whatever is required to unblock the default theme change for Minimal profile...
...but I will say that these:
"No features pre-configured."
"Commonly used features pre-configured."
...leave the impression for me that they seem to be worded for a binary world of exactly two choices.
If you add another, actual use-case, then we immediately leave that binary scenario, and it looks like this:
(Note: This is the a.k.a. Snowman profile I'm working on. Its name and description are early prototypes only and not final in any way, but I hope/believe they sufficiently clarify where I'm coming from.)
I will also say that the "Start from scratch" phrase really made a lot of sense, since it clarifies what "Minimal" means. The term minimal is quite known in the Linux/tech world, but not so much in the Windows/etc world.
Lastly, I object to adding "no dummy content" to the descriptions, since 1) there is no core profile that has dummy content, and 2) it would be a preemptive decision on whether we're going to add dummy content to the Standard profile.
Comment #8
David_Rothstein commentedWhat are "features" that the Minimal profile doesn't have any of them configured?
Currently, even leaving the theme question aside, Minimal starts off with three optional core modules enabled (block, node, and dblog), several default blocks in place, a few other basic settings pre-configured, etc. So the existing wording sounds like a better description of what the profile does.
If the intention is to change Minimal from what it currently is into a "completely stripped-down and bare-bones" profile, I think that's a broader issue. We'd need to communicate that the profile isn't just missing features but may actually be difficult to use (using Stark, for example, may make the initial Drupal install harder to navigate due to the lack of visual cues - as was discussed in one of the other issues - and if we were to go further and remove the default navigation blocks, it would obviously be even worse). And we'd have to decide that that's even what we want to do in the first place.
Comment #9
sunFor the time being, all we want is #632100: Use Stark as default theme for Minimal install profile
That change does not affect the Drupal installer in any way though. The installer always uses the Seven theme. The default theme for a profile only affects the resulting Drupal site after the installer has completed.
In terms of overall scope, Minimal should actually be and mean minimal.
Depending on other D8 efforts that are happening currently, there is a chance that we might want to remove Node module from Minimal profile at some point.
Removal of dblog and block is uncertain at this point though. Dblog will likely have to stay. Block mainly depends on what the new blocks/layouts in D8 will look like, and whether there is a way to expose a minimal interface for entering the site's management/administration without Block module by then. That's the only reason for why Block module is installed for Minimal profile.
Comment #10
David_Rothstein commentedSorry, when I wrote "initial Drupal install" above, that was unclear. What I meant was indeed "the initial site after Drupal has been installed" (the concern raised in the other thread was that this may be harder to navigate around and perform administrative tasks if it uses a theme with no visual cues).
Comment #11
sunI don't want to sound like a broken record, so I'm not sure whether it makes any further sense for me to follow up on this issue ;)
But yeah:
The primary problem of Minimal profile thus far is that it does too much in order to be minimal. It actually has a unique use-case and is being used by many Drupal site builders and developers for creating custom Drupal sites. The expectations for the profile are crystal clear:
In talking to other Drupalers, I've learned that they are almost exclusively using Minimal profile for building sites. They do not want to get into the "write your own install profile" business, because all they want is to start from scratch/zero. Therefore, it is highly beneficial that the Minimal profile exists and is shipped with Drupal core and presented as a simple installation option. However, for the actual typical use-case, the profile still installs and configures too much.
Minimal profile was originally called Expert profile. It's perfectly possible that this term was more clear in terms of initial installation UX, and that it might make sense to re-introduce the word, either in the profile's description or even in its title/label. (I'd strongly disagree with renaming the internal profile/directory name though — we badly need to get over the idea of machine name/human-readable name parity.)
So. There is a strong use-case for Minimal profile, and improvements like #632100: Use Stark as default theme for Minimal install profile will make the profile solve the needs of its users even better. That particular change does not actually introduce a degradation in navigation or performing administrative tasks. It only removes the superfluous assumption of choosing a more fancy theme for you. The Minimal profile still enables the Management menu block in the first sidebar, so there is no functional difference at all. There is only a visual difference, and that difference/removal is desired.
With regard to the wording, I wasn't a huge fan of @Dries' "no features" proposal either. Since there might be other profiles for concrete use-cases potentially being available, as outlined and depicted in #7, I'd prefer a description that focuses on clarifying the use-case, instead of clarifying which features are contained or not.
That is, because I strongly believe that installation profiles should focus on solving a particular use-case. Therefore, the use-case needs to be communicated, not (necessarily) the contained features.
To communicate a use-case, you need a goal, a scope, and a target audience.
For example, combining the terminology/wording ideas so far:
Start from scratch to build a new, custom site. Suitable for advanced/expert users.
Start from scratch to build a new site using custom configuration and functionality. Suitable for advanced/expert users.
Comment #12
xjmThe two proposed descriptions in #11 sound like the right direction to me. The weakest part I think is the middle. Both
a new, custom siteanda new site using custom configuration and functionalityseem to imply that you get a boilerplate site with standard, but you don't. The second is better but also more verbose. :)Comment #13
sun@xjm: You're right. The previous suggestion still somewhat implied that you'd get some boilerplate site.
Start from scratch to build a new site without pre-configured functionality. Suitable for advanced/expert users.
Comment #14
David_Rothstein commentedThe description is a little long, but overall I like #13 a lot.
It seems like it would work well with the Minimal profile as it exists now, and also if the changes that have been proposed in the other issues end up happening.
Comment #15
sunScreenshot of #13:
Comment #16
aburrows commentedYou could add a help link as well to d.o? Which explains more about it for newbies.
Comment #17
sun@aburrows: You mean a help link for the overall page? That would have to be discussed in a separate issue.
Regarding the Minimal profile item being discussed here, I don't see why that would need a link to d.o.
However, due to your question, I just had this very neat idea: #1678552: Add screenshot.png image to install profiles and show them in the installer :)
Comment #18
sunWordsmithing:
Choose one: ;)
Comment #19
aburrows commented@sun yeah or maybe a tooltip type thing that you hover over a bubble appears. But I'm liking the way we're making the descriptions better!
Comment #20
sunOut of the options in #18, the last one looks, feels, and reads most concise and clear to me.
Turned it into a patch.
Comment #21
webchickThat actually seems pretty straight-forward to me! Tagging for the UX team to chime in.
Comment #22
Bojhan commentedGood to me
Comment #23
dries commentedI thought about this some more and decided to commit this. Sorry it took this long.
Given the work you've been doing on D8, I've decided to commit both #1664894: Clarify Minimal profile's use-case and description and #632100: Use Stark as default theme for Minimal install profile regardless of the fact we are over threshold. It's an exception, but thanks for all your hard work.
Comment #24.0
(not verified) commentedUpdated issue summary.