The Symfony 3 will be end of life in 2021. This means we need to be ready to move to Symfony 4.4 before then. This is a major trigger to releasing Drupal 9 in 2020. See #3007300: [META] Release Drupal 9 on June 3 2020. While Symfony 5 will be available by the time Drupal 9 comes around, it will be the first release to only receive security fixes for 8 months (https://symfony.com/blog/symfony-maintenance-changes-for-standard-releases) so given that Drupal core is supported for 12 months, Drupal 9 cannot adopt Symfony 5.
Update to Symfony 4.4.
None.
None directly in this issue.
None directly in this issue.
| Comment | File | Size | Author |
|---|---|---|---|
| #9 | drupal_releases.svg_.txt | 6.32 KB | pasqualle |
| #9 | drupal_releases.png | 10.13 KB | pasqualle |
Comments
Comment #2
gábor hojtsyComment #3
gábor hojtsyUpdating title.
Comment #4
gábor hojtsyComment #5
pasqualleDoes it mean
1. Drupal will adopt only Symfony LTS releases?
2. New Drupal major version will be released with every new Symfony LTS release (like every 2 years)? Because there are no more than 2 Symfony LTS releases supported at the same time.
https://symfony.com/roadmap#maintained-symfony-branches
Comment #6
gábor hojtsy@Pasqualle: unless (a) Symfony changes their policy on this again or (b) Drupal becomes more decoupled from Symfony in future versions, Drupal would need to release only on LTS versions yeah if we want to keep the 12 month support cycle. Symfony LTS releases are supported for 4 years (https://symfony.com/roadmap/4.4), so I don't believe core would need to release every 2 years, it could release every 3-3.5 depending on when it releases.
Comment #7
pasqualleThat does not match my calculation.
for example if D10 would be released in 2023,
Where S4LTS will be almost eol, and S5LTS will have less than 2 years.
That would mean D10 will live less than 2 years or D10 must be updated to S6LTS in its lifetime.
It is not possible to wait for S6LTS for D10, because then D9 would run on unsupported S4LTS or D9 must be updated to S5LTS in its lifetime.
I should have draw a graph based on Symfony releases to be more clear here, but I hope you get my explanation.
Comment #8
gábor hojtsy@Pasqualle well, you derive the periods from your assumed Drupal 10 release date of 2023 which may or may not be true.
Comment #9
pasqualleOk, here is the graph explaining why every 2 years:
Comment #10
gábor hojtsyRight, as I said that assumes we wait over half a year to adopt the next LTS, which is not at all a given. One of the many things we can do is to make Drupal 9 shorter so Drupal 10 onwards can be longer.
Comment #11
pasqualleThe release can be even 4 years long but the release schedule still must be 2-2,5 years between releases, as we have to match Symfony's release cycle, because with our current support rules can not skip a Symfony LTS.
Comment #12
gábor hojtsy@Pasqualle: A Symfony LTS is security supported for 4 years after its release. Assuming Drupal would release a month after the Symfony LTS (eg. November release for Symfony LTS and December release for Drupal), it would be 3 years and 11 months before Drupal needs to end support. Your D9/D10/D11 boxes start significantly after the Symfony support starts and they end significantly before it ends, neither is a necessity. As a matter of fact, Drupal 8 support end is already tied to Symfony 3 support end. (The end of the Symfony 3 yellow box on your figure). That is where your math does not match reality.
Comment #13
gábor hojtsyI had a private conversation with @Pasqualle. He mixed time between releases (as he originally asked in #5) and support length (as he explained in #7). The two are not the same. That said, I still misread what he wrote in #5, sorry for that.
If nothing else changes, then indeed Drupal would need to release roughly every 2 years but could still be supported for 4 years if the major releases are timed with Symfony's LTS. (@Pasqualle's blue rectangles do not reflect this and end support sooner than needed). That said, there are a lot of possibilities that this will not be the case:
So future looking statements are very hard to make about this at this time.
Comment #14
chi commentedThat's kind of frustrating that Drupal 9 will use outdated Symfony version from the beginning. Can we apply major Symfony update within Drupal 9 life cycle? We already did it in Drupal 8. Symfony does very good job at preserving backwards compatibility even between major releases. We could support two major Symfony versions so that projects that use Symfony API directly could stick to lower Symfony version by setting an appropriate constraint in composer.json.
Comment #15
gábor hojtsy@Chi: releasing on Symfony 5 would on the other hand mean a lot more disruptive changes (just check all the suppressed deprecations in #2976394: Allow Symfony 4.4 to be installed in Drupal 8). Pretty good backwards compatibility is not really what is happening between Symfony 4 and 5. #13/2 explains a way to allow for future Symfony updates under Drupal. Not sure if that is possible within Drupal 9.
Comment #16
pasqualleBased on the slack chat, Drupal 9 will be Symfony 5 compatible (maybe even from 9.0 alpha release).
I do not know if there is a plan for "official" support for 2 major Symfony versions.
Comment #18
mikelutzClosing as a duplicate of #3088369: Update Drupal 9 to Symfony 4.4-dev and transferring credit
Comment #19
mikelutzDefinitely not from the alpha release, SF 5.0 will not even be out then. We may have 5.0 or 5.1 compatibility at the time of D9 release, depending on what we decide about how to do deprecations in 8.9/9.0
Symfony minor release tend to break stuff, so keeping compatible with 5 will be a moving target, but that is the goal, similar to how we kept drupal mostly compatible with SF4 during the lifecycle.
Comment #20
MixologicIf Im not mistaken, this is a duplicate of #3088369: Update Drupal 9 to Symfony 4.4-dev
Comment #21
Mixologicah. cross post.