Well, what can I say? I'm completely lost.

I *think* this taxonomy thing is one of the most powerful features of Drupal (hey, I'm a newbie), yet I don't get it all. Maybe it's very simple, but the more I read about it to try and understand, the more confused I get!

As I see it, it's a way to provide a hierarchical structure to your site, basically differnt categories, subcats, subsubcats etc, no? Yet, if so, I don't get the "TYpes" "Hierarchy" "tagging" "multiple select", "required" etc etc options, when creating a new "Vocabulary".

And when that's all done, what does it actually 'do'? Does it just organise your menu, so that guests can see one set of menus and users another?

I'm sorry this must sound all niave, but I have tried to understand it, but the more I read, the more terms are involved and it just looses me....

It honestly seems perfect for my needs, as I'm trying to develop a community site, where there are 3 main sections (nodes?):
Resources (general advice and informational resources, and a user-contributed book)
Community (where users can make their own websites (gallery/blogs and stuff) and forums)
Users (where users can go their blog/gallery/whatever and add content, and contribute to the "resources book") - hence Users is linked to resources (through the book) as well as commuity (as their content makes up the community content)

So I guess, these would be my 3 main "vocabulary" terms and branches underneith are simply defined?

Totally lost@!

Comments

pbarnett’s picture

Hi!

I'm working on a couple of comminity sites myself, and the way I've done it is to use the Organic Groups module to give me my main groups, and I've set up a very simple taxonomy so that each group has it's own vocabulary, and a taxonomy term from thast vocabulary has to selected when creating content.

This allows me to use the Views module to organise the content by displaying only nodes from a particular group with a particular taxonomy term.

I'd suggest you experiment; the key to it (for me at least) is using Views...

I'm sure other people will have other ideas, but that's my twopenn'orth.

Pete.

borked’s picture

I came across Orgnic groups yesterday, but only bookmarked it as I didn't know whether it would simplify or enhance the situation (enchance being a bad thing as I didn't quite get the principal to begin with!)

Views I've certainly come acros many times, but never explored. That's defo on the next todo/try list.... no idea at the moment its capabilitties.

Many thanks - more experimenting (from what I gather, this stuff has to be pretty well nailed down from the beginning, because changing it after is a nightmare...)

Cheer,
Andy

anner’s picture

Alright, let me give this a go. Taxonomy is a very powerful tool, partly because there are so many modules based on it, extending it's capabilities.

Taxonomy is a way to categorize your nodes. When you create a new vocabularies, you need to specify Types: the page types that can contain a term from this vocabulary. This becomes particularly important when using flexinode or CCK to define your own node types beyond the initial page, story, and image. You also need to specify whether you want the terms in that vocabulary to have Hierarchy, and if so, should it be single or multiple. Free tagging allow for users to type in the vocabulary terms instead of choosing them from a drop down list when creating nodes. Multiple Select allows for users to select more than one term from that vocabulary for a given node. Required allows you to force any node of the specified types to have at least one term for that vocabulary specified.

From the sound of it, you may need just one vocalubary with 3 terms: Resources, Community, and Users.
It may also be that you want to have terms/subsections of each of these, so you would want 3 vocabularies with how ever many terms in each.

Once you have decided upon and set up your taxonomy structure, you can use the Taxonomy Access module to allow/disallow access to nodes based a given term or set of terms. You can also theme nodes based on taxonomy. You can set up breadcrumbs based on your taxonomy, and much more. Just look at all the Taxonomy Something modules here: http://drupal.org/project/Modules

So Taxonomy is not just a site structure, it is a way to gain certain functionalities based on that categorization of your nodes.

borked’s picture

This becomes particularly important when using flexinode or CCK to define your own node types beyond the initial page, story, and image.

I'm sorry, but my knees start to wobble here... I've read about flexinodes, but I have no idea as yet what they are about (gotta sort out the absolute basics first!)

Multiple Select allows for users to select more than one term from that vocabulary for a given node.

Now you see, this is where I'm getting confused - why would I *want* my users to select terms from a vocabulary? Where would this be done - in a search box? I just don't get what this capability can give - is it for navigation? Much more for your second point - my users would only 'possibly' be creating nodes in the book section. Is this where it becomes useful? In that respect no real need to create vocabulary for the Users and Community section...

Multiple Select allows for users to select more than one term from that vocabulary for a given node. Required allows you to force any node of the specified types to have at least one term for that vocabulary specified.

I just don't understand this! In the examples given in the handbook here for taxonomy, they give Music/Music genre as an example - how/why/where would this type of functionality be useful? OK, I guess I can see all this being useful in a Wiki, but in a community site, do I need it? I probably do for the proposed community 'book' (I guess, effectively a wiki)...

From the sound of it, you may need just one vocalubary with 3 terms: Resources, Community, and Users.

Now I *know* I haven't 'got it'!!! I was thinking I needed 3 vocabulary definitions and subterms below them... If I only had 1 vocabulary, what would it be? "The Site"? with every Type clicked below it? Off the top of my head, Resources would need "Book Page" and "Page (?)", Community would use types, "Blog Entry, Forum Topic, Image, Poll, and "Users" would use Blog Entry, Forum Topic, and Image. So all 3 would touch on every Type, as they are in my directory, more or less....

So Taxonomy is not just a site structure, it is a way to gain certain functionalities based on that categorization of your nodes.

And I think this is the actual crux of my problem - the penny hasn't yet dropped how my modules (nodes?) can tap into this wealth of information (because I haven't yet understood how it all melds together)....
I know it's asking for a lot, but if someone could give me a (simple) working example site explaining their taxonomy then I can actually see how modules can plug into this beast....

pbarnett’s picture

Hi, Andy.

In all fairness, these concepts completely threw me when I started with Drupal some three months ago; it's a real paradigm shift moving from a static website to a CMS, and Drupal in particular is so feature-rich that it's almost overwhelming at first :-)

But anyway, you wanted an example; here's my current poor effort :-

This a development site with web access cobbled together at the moment (hence the weird URL :-) but you can see the organic groups (Community, Governance, Health, and so on.).

I've made some sweeping changes to the site structure as my understanding of Drupal has grown, and it's not that difficult in most cases; nailing the design is difficult at the start when you're not aware of the possibilities open to you...

The submenus (courtesy of the NiceMenus module) link to a view which shows all nodes in that group with a specific taxonomy term (the term is shown in each node on the right, under the orange line).

Simple, but I like simple... you'll be surprised how quickly it all comes together conceptually after a while!

http://remote.mansfieldcvs.org:8080/mcvstest

As fars as Views go, my epochée moment was after reading this :- 20 Steps to Views Happiness...

Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.

Pete.

dvessel’s picture

Simply put, taxonomy is all about classification at its' core level.

The biggest reason why it's so confusing is because it's so open ended. It won't dictate how you have to organize your site as Joomla does. The language used is new and the explanations around here don't make meaningful connections making it worse. I'm not sure if my explanation will make any more sense but..

It's not about hierarchy. It isn't about any one thing since you can implement the taxonomy system in unlimited ways. If you want to create a hierarchy you can. From the most basic to the most mind numbing, it's all possible.

Here are some very basic ideas.

  1. Vocabulary = container for any group of terms with its' own rules.
  2. terms = individual categories. They can be linear or structured in a hierarchy.
  3. A vocabulary must be assigned to your node types so you can make the connection from a term (category) to a node of a particular type. Multiple vocabularies can be assigned to multiple node types.
  4. Multi-select means you can assign more than one term to a node from the vocabulary that has it enabled. Why? Because some things are not easily defined by a single term.
  5. Free tagging lets you create your own terms in a freeform manner. New terms can be entered as the node is being created. Works great if your constantly adding new terms but generally not good for general users as it can be abused. Must be linear.

Why the options? Well, I wouldn't worry about it and just try experimenting. If your needs are simple then keep it simple. Understand the system as you go and think about how you want your site structured then implement it.

For example, In my site there is no structure. I just have a single vocabulary where I use free tagging to categorize each node as I go. It works for me. Definitely not for a community site though.

You could create a single vocabulary with multiple hierarchies with the 3 sections at the top level and branch out your categories from there. Or create 3 vocabularies with their own rules if the 3 sections will be structured differently.. You can do it any way you please.

Here's some extra reading. Some of it is just more confusing jargon but check it out anyway. Especially the sub-pages.

http://drupal.org/node/299

joon

styro’s picture

The biggest reason why it's so confusing is because it's so open ended. It won't dictate how you have to organize your site as Joomla does. The language used is new and the explanations around here don't make meaningful connections making it worse. I'm not sure if my explanation will make any more sense but..

Agreed about the open endedness causing initial confusion.

I just think of the taxonomy stuff as metadata for nodes rather than any actual feature or site functionality. It is just extra optional information that can be attached to your nodes. It doesn't actually do anything (by itself).

It is up to you as a site designer to use that information for your own needs. There are a zillion modules available that extend Drupal in different ways by taking advantage of that information to create navigation systems or categorisation systems etc etc. This flexibility can be daunting at first.

The taxonomy features in the base Drupal install are just the bare bones features. Most webmasters will use extra module and/or code snippets to get their desired results.

You don't actually need to use it though. A site could still be built without it using other approaches like custom blocks, custom menus, the book module etc.

--
Anton
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trekid’s picture

Maybe by examples is easier to understand some of the applications of taxonomy.

This is a world banknote (hobbyist) site and we ask questions like give me all the banknotes issues by guyana, africa region, etc. Look at the urls and see the taxonomies. It also uses a taxonomy browser.

http://3833.com/region_america/

Scroll down, put your cursor and look at the (countries) link, click it and it 'pulls' the tagged info.

borked’s picture

Thanks everyone for your much valued input - it has truly helped me a lot. I'm beginning to understand it more after experimenting, although I'm still waiting for the penny to drop fully!

Your live sites are just fantastic and show me that what I want to achieve is possible, so I got with experimenting on the one thing that I think this could be pretty useful - my community-written book.

I assigned a taxonomy "The Book" and defined the chapters as terms. Now I think this could all work because I want users to be able to create/edit pages in the book, just not add chapters (or at least submit them for consideration). I got lost though as I can't find a way to do it, and plus each page comes with the term as a link which if clicked, just displays every single page under that term (I would have thought that would have just displayed the relevant chapter listing.

Something also went very wrong though as even though administer>access control>book module>edit book pages is checked, the edits by registered users don't stick (although edits of their own pages does stick).

I just keep going round and round in circles!! Thanks for explaining the taxonomy, but Drupal is getting the better of me :(

I'll stick with it, because if I can master it, I know it'll make me a very happy camper. The point-and-click CMS solutions frustrated me too much due to their restrictions.

Ah, my community may one day go live!

Michelle’s picture

I hesitate to even suggest this because this is likely to deepen your confusion... That said, if you're combining taxonomy and books, you might want to have a look at the Category module. http://category.greenash.net.au/

Michelle

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My site: http://shellmultimedia.com

borked’s picture

hehe - I was going to shut the puter for the weekend as I wanted to take a break from it to try and clear my train of thought, but now this has just thown another cat amongst the pigeons ;)

Thanks - it'll keep me playing for some more time!

Andy

Michelle’s picture

You may want to wait until you have a clear head to look at categories. :) My head is still spinning trying to "get" it.

Good luck!

Michelle

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My site: http://shellmultimedia.com