Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 24 May 2021 [#3213868]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3213868`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

naresh_bavaskar	Hi, From India
Neslee	Neslee from Goa, contributor
Nishant Ghetiya	Hi, Nishant from India
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Gábor, core committer
nikunj.shah	Hi! Nikunj form India
mikelutz (he/him)	Hello all!
gaurav mahlawat	Hi Gauravmahlawat on DO
andypost	Andy, help topics fighter!
anjalivijay	Hello :wave: from India :flag-in: Contributor
shaal	Hello
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California, catching up
catch	Nat from the UK, joining late.
dww	Derek, US, Black Lives Matter, reading the backscroll...
hansa11	Hello from India :wave:
anmolgoyal74	Hello
mansoor20	Hello from india:wave:
vuil	Ilcho, Bulgaria :flag-bg::flag-eu: (edited)

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we'll open threads for them as appropriate.

Neslee	Just curious about how we will go ahead in porting contrib modules from 9 to 10.
andypost	Rename bundle to subtype, there's no consensus on scope so it needs more attention[#1380720]
andypost	Another topic is front-matter - #3075427: Create TemplateDiscovery for plugin managers to use is primary blocker which is rtbc for long time
dww	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) Were you going to open a thread for @andypost’s proposal to discuss bundle vs. subtype? Sounds like an interesting discussion. Or is the meeting already "over"?
dww	(Also, if it's over, might be good to officially "close" the meeting so folks that want to discuss other stuff in the channel know the coast is clear...)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Sorry lost track of that and did not respond. I don't think that is Drupal 10 specific, it is neither planned to happen on the Drupal 10 branch nor is it required to release Drupal 10. (edited)
dww	Sounds reasonable. Thanks!
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I posted the closing topic now :) happy to see people using the channel :)
andypost	I find it big terminological change, so not sure it fits into minor release

2️⃣ System requirements are starting to get clearer. Current state of discussionPHP 8 (up from 7.3)MySQL 5.7.8 (same as Drupal 9)MariaDB 10.3.7 (same)SQLite 3.26 (same)PostgreSQL 12 (up from 10) with pg_trgmInternet Explorer 11 not supportedOpera Mini not supported in reverse proxy mode

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	we did not define any additional webserver requirements yet
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	the requirements discussions are going on in subissues of #3118147: [meta] Set Drupal 10 platform and browser requirements six months before the release
andypost	In this context interesting how PHP 8.1 support could be added, as 9.3 Core will be released before 8.1.0 (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost any disruption expected from 8.1?
andypost	Yes, lots of internal classes already got namespaces https://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaces_in_bundled_extensions (edited)
catch	Could we ask the DA to set up an 8.1-dev environment on DrupalCI so we can see what's going on earlier?
andypost	June 10 is first alpha scheduled https://wiki.php.net/todo/php81
andypost	Otoh maybe DrupalCI could add "master-dev" before it
catch	Opened #3215525: Add PHP 8.1 testing environment once alpha1 is available on June 10, 2021
alexpott	FWIW According to the RFC linked there are no BC implications of that one and there are no name changes proposed.
alexpott	If I was to take a guess at what will be a PITA I’d guess it’ll be laminas and their PHP version constraints
andypost	@alexpott iirc laminas removal is only blocked on "lifecycle" issue?!
alexpott	@andypost are you sure?
alexpott	I think the Diactoros stuff and feed stuff need a load of work
andypost	Checking atm, it's used by aggregator which can't be deprecated without it
andypost	Ah guzzle 7... rabbit hole (edited)
catch	#2919215: Deprecate feed.bridge.writer would be a step.
alexpott	@catch I think maybe a step before that is #2979588: Deprecate Laminas\Feed reader and writer services
catch	Asked a question on that one.
xjm	We are trying to deprecate all our Laminas dependencies. Deprecating Aggregator is the first step. Deprecating Diactoros is the hard part and requires not only Guzzle 7, but the 2.0 release of their psr7 component which as of 6 weeks or so ago was not out yet.
xjm	We canʻt even start trying until their psr7 2.0 release milestone is made because one of PSR-17 and PSR-18 is not supported in the current release (forgetting which)
xjm	The other is supported in Guzzle 7, but HEAD was passing with Guzzle 7 just a couple months ago so that in itself is not hard
xjm	Itʻs ripping out Diactoros that will be hard

3️⃣ Porting modules from Drupal 9 to 10

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Raised by @Neslee
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The core_version_requirement key still helps make projects compatible with both Drupal 9 and 10.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	we have data about Drupal 10 compatibility at https://dev.acquia.com/drupal10/deprecation_status
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	So far almost 60% projects would be compatible, but things will change as more deprecations are added.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The current best way to help is with automation though.
Neslee	Ha, that sounds good.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	testing https://github.com/palantirnet/drupal-rector/pull/144 see "Remaining work" would be the best next step for automation
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	once the rector update is done, next step is to make drupal-rector compatible with Drupal 9 so the deprecated API fixes can be automated
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Dan, @shaal, @KarinG, @mglaman were working on this :slightly_smiling_face:
mglaman	I have no update
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Dan what's the best way to help right now? is the "Remaining work" still accurate?
Dan	Yes. I wasn't able to make progress the last few weeks and this week is looking busy for me as well. We could use help with some documentation and testing.
andypost	IMO the main blocker here is maintainers, there's so many patches hanging to just add core_version_requirement and releasesFeeling like it will be the same for D10 (edited)
andypost	Maybe it make sense to revisit them and dort out extensions which isn't affected by deprecated code
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost a maintainership takeover drive would be interesting :slightly_smiling_face:
andypost	I scared that "abandoned procedure" can cause conflicts
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Well, if folks don't care about their project to make Drupal 9 compatible, I don't think there will be conflicts? (edited)
andypost	Good point :+1:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I think its fine that some projects are only posted as a "it worked for me, good luck"
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	in https://dri.es/who-sponsors-drupal-development-2020 Dries clearly stated that "the Drupal community worked on 4,195 different Drupal.org projects this year"
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There are roughly 10k Drupal 8 compatible projects, so only 41% of them are touched in a year at all.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Given that I am not surprised not everything is suddenly Drupal 9 compatible.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Posting code on drupal.org does not carry the expectation of maintenance.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I personally would love to lead the maintainer porting drive but I'm currently stretched :/ It's on my whiteboard... if no one else steps up by August, I'll revisit
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I decided to set up a github sponsors thing focused on leading the d8 to d9 port... maybe some organization would be up for sponsoring it... it's going through approval right now... maybe it'll be in place in a week or two and then I can advertise it
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm now wondering if it might make sense to create an Open Collective specifically for module porting. Then the funds could be used for multiple people. I'll try to look into that in June to see how it's set up for other projects like Webforms and Simplytest.me

4️⃣ Create TemplateDiscovery for plugin managers to use is blocking help topics

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3075427: Create TemplateDiscovery for plugin managers to use raised by @andypost
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	This looks like a framework manager could help :slightly_smiling_face: @larowlan or @alexpott maybe?
andypost	Yes, and how core could promote usage of front-matter, I recall @lauriii used to have some vision for roadmap
larowlan	put on my list