This is one of several issues for the Community Working Group to explore and evaluate various questions, concerns, and suggestions raised in recent Drupal community discussions. The full list can be found at https://drupal.org/node/2893907

The specific items of feedback given in the Governance meetings to explore here are:

  • Define "the kind of community we want to be" with global mindset / awareness
  • Aligns community members with the purpose of the project
  • Create space for different values
  • Recognize that those who aren't aligned may choose to leave
  • "Drupal culture encourages collective ownership and individual contribution/empowerment"
  • Onboard new community members / contributors to confirm understanding of expectations

Comments

gdemet created an issue. See original summary.

gdemet’s picture

Adam Bergstein (nerdstein) has put together a list of great resources on open source community governance at: http://nerdstein.net/blog/community-governance-considerations-open-sourc...

In particular, he notes that many communities have the following:

  • Shared Purpose - As a community, there needs to be a shared purpose that is the foundation for all community governance activities. This shared purpose is often a function of serving the community.
  • A Representation of Values - Members want community governance to be a representation of community values.
gdemet’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
gaele’s picture

Sorry, I am not a native speaker of US English.

Recognize that those who aren't aligned may choose to leave

What does this mean?

gdemet’s picture

For context, this was one of the items that came out of the recent community discussions (recording and transcript here). I've quoted the relevant portion from the transcript below:

There was really a big call for a companion document to the code of conduct that is around our core values as a community. This would be defining the kind of community that we want to be, with a global mindset, meaning this is not solely North American or western values. That is not the intention here at all. It really is to ensure that we're looking at this from a global perspective and have full awareness that these are the values of the global Drupal community.

And it would allow us to align our community members with the purpose of the Drupal project. It would need to create space for different values because we are all individuals, who hold our own values, come from our own families of origin, and cultures. And those do have different values. So, it needn't be rigid or restrictive. It does not to be open and flexible, but still have some kind of definition around it.

And also a recognition that if we define our core values, that there may be people who do not feel aligned with those values, and may choose to leave the community. And this is a direct statement that the "Drupal culture encourages collective ownership and individual contribution and empowerment." So, how can we create some form of documentation that defines what that collective is, but still leaves space for that individuality? And, again, when we onboard new community members, when new community members join the community, to give them some clarity around what is expected of them. And to confirm the understanding of expectations. Because we cannot expect people to abide by codes of conduct and align with core values if they haven't been made aware of them.

rachel_norfolk’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
rachel_norfolk’s picture

Recognize that those who aren't aligned may choose to leave

I can’t entirely say exactly what was intended by the people who gave this feedback in the Governance Meeting, only they can. My personal interpretation is that we might find that if we begin to expect certain values to be adhered to by the community then some might decide it’s not a community that they want to be part of. If that happens, is the benefit of having stated shared values greater than the benefit of having certain people be involved in the community? It’s a question we need to answer, rather than anything else.

Anonymous’s picture

I understand the intention I just think it's going to be incredibly hard to not only write but to also enforce to any degree in order to have the perceived outcomes being claimed. There are so many different ways people think in the world it seems as if we're trying to create some kind of island that is going to keep far more people out IMHO than include, mostly by their religious beliefs of how women should be / are treated, for example there was a recent first DrupalCamp in Saudi Arabia, and from what I hear there's a lot of stuff that I don't personally agree with that they enforce - are we to tell them to stop having camps as it would be under CoC if Drupal Association supported?

I guess that's a straw man example, am just trying to communicate my concerns about the current projected way forward, which seems to me very narrow in terms of world views, we won't be able to solve all of them with Drupal and I'd prefer efforts which go to encouraging more people to join not leave, and these words don't go to helping that IMHO.

rachel_norfolk’s picture

Personally, I’m inclined to agree, Steve. How I would expect to have to present and behave at a camp in the Middle East (and yes, I do want to visit Iran, Pakistan etc) would be wildly different to in UK.

Hey, even I’m capable of being a little too brash and sweary than would be considered acceptable behaviour in say, a US camp.

So, creating a single set of values would be extremely difficult.

David_Rothstein’s picture

There is already a list of values at https://www.drupal.org/about/mission-and-principles and it has been there for a long time (the year 2008 seems to be the last time it was changed, via #316250: Mission statement rewrite).

(There is also an issue at #2874687: Refresh the Mission Statement about updating that page, although it focuses on the mission statement itself, not the list of values.)

The current list of values is very short and kind of anodyne... but even so I'm not sure it really represents the current state of the Drupal project and community. So I agree that trying to expand this into something more specific might go poorly.

guess_who’s picture

Recognize that those who aren't aligned may choose to leave

I am certainly a big advocate for being honest. I mean, five years ago you thought it's enough to police what people might say -- "Be careful in the words that you choose" -- until the outrage swept that away (well not away, it never went away but at least into hiding). But finally we see the intent bared: booting people based on what values they hold, what they think.

Awesome!

I would fully recommend adding this as a footnote to "Come for the code, stay for the community(*)"

(*) As long as your thoughts align.

Ps. Yes, this is chx, go ahead, block this account, I won't use it again anyways. And yes, I resisted in posting for close to ten months but some things mandate breaking the silence.

gdemet’s picture

Status: Active » Postponed

I can’t speak for the people who provided this feedback in the community discussions, but as I read it, I see this not as telling people how to think, but instead telling people what we value as a project and a community. For example, the Agile Manifesto principles tell people what Agile is about and what the people behind the Agile methodology believe about software development. This makes it easier for people to understand whether or not Agile is for them.

Similarly, people in the Drupal community have been saying for some time that we need to do a better job of communicating the “why” of our project so that it’s easier for people to decide whether it’s for them or not. As Emma Jane Westby put it in her DrupalCon presentation from a couple years back:

I like how the community is able to drive the direction of the software, but I also think it makes it difficult for people to decide if they want to (1) start participating and (2) continue participating. There is an unspoken assumption that growth is good; that more contributors are needed; and that the code base must support increasingly more complex systems. Is it time we wrote down these assumptions? Is it time to revisit our Principles?

Others have talked about the need for Drupal to focus on who it serves instead of trying to be something to everybody. Particularly given the changes introduced with Drupal 8, it’s more important than ever that we have a clear understanding of what Drupal is and who it’s for.

This is obviously a much larger conversation that should involve people from all across our community, and is not something that’s appropriate for the CWG or any other group to tackle on its own. For now, I’m going to mark this as “Postponed” until it can be addressed as part of the larger community governance process.

moshe weitzman’s picture

Dries talked about this at Drupalcon and posted a blog - https://dri.es/defining-drupal-values-and-principles

dasjo’s picture

Not sure if CWG is still the right place for the tracking of this.

Should we update the status to needs review according to that Dries has mentioned he is looking for feedback now?

dasjo’s picture

With regards to were to talk about it, the values & principles page itself states that discussion should happen in this issue queue:
https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/governance

gdemet’s picture

Status: Postponed » Fixed

I'm going to mark this as "Fixed", as there's nothing more the CWG can/should do with this issue at this time, but people who want to provide feedback should do so in the governance queue: https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/governance

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.