Ready for Release

  • TBD

Work In Progress

  • TBD

Backlog

  • TBD

Original Summary

Bootstrap 4 has finally been released:

http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2018/01/18/bootstrap-4/

Must Haves

The following issues are why this issue is currently postponed:

Nice to Haves

The following issues do not technically prevent work on this issue, but having them done would greatly benefit the overall project:

  • #2938060: Abstract non-Bootstrap specific code into separate project
    This will allow the many necessary changes that need to occur to live in a proper module that this project can depend on (reliably) and allow it to get back to what its original intent was designed to focus on: bridging the gap between Drupal and Bootstrap.
  • #2547363: Use front matter to version templates
    My goal with 8.x-4.x is to break the version parity with the upstream project. What this means is: 8.x-4.x will work with both Bootstrap 3 and Bootstrap 4. This will allow us to focus on a single code base/branch while still supporting the nearly 40k sites that currently use 8.x-3.x. This will allow them to install the new major version of this project without having to do any major upgrades until they're ready for it. This way, when they are ready, it could be almost as simple as "flipping a switch" by changing the major via a setting somewhere.
  • #474684: Allow themes to declare dependencies on modules
    This will greatly help alleviate any confusion and prevent people from installing this base theme and then complaining that it "doesn't work" only because they failed to realize that it (will) depend on a module(s).
  • #2648976: Port API module to D8
    This is a major aspect of our external documentation site: https://drupal-bootstrap.org and it will have to be migrated to D8 at some point.

The theme system in Drupal has had very little love over the years, aside from Twig, and has suffered from participating in the many advancements that come with the OO code in Drupal 8.

#2609316: Port Bootstrap to Drupal 8 brought many of these advancements into this project, namely in the form of our Plugin System. This is actually the core functionality of this project in Drupal 8, but most of it has absolutely nothing to with Bootstrap itself.

If you're picking up on a theme (pardon the pun), yes... we have to scale this project back first. Until many of these aspects can be abstracted away from this project, I'm not ready to start work on Bootstrap 4 just yet. The problems and solutions created here can benefit all of Drupal, not just Bootstrap. More importantly, it could benefit core itself.

I will set this issue to “Active” once we are ready to start work. Until then, any patches or comments made here will be ignored.

Mark Carver
- Project Maintainer

P.S. This is open source and my client work comes first. If you want to make this my priority, then hire me!

Comments

markcarver created an issue. See original summary.

markhalliwell’s picture

Title: [META] Bootstrap 4 » Bootstrap 4
Category: Task » Plan

Oops, forgot there's a "Plan" category now.

MickL’s picture

Why postponed? :(

markhalliwell’s picture

Related issues: +#2461607: Release 7.x-3.1

I have my hands full currently.

chegor’s picture

Status: Postponed » Active
markhalliwell’s picture

Status: Active » Postponed
Related issues: +#2609316: Port Bootstrap to Drupal 8

Hands are still full, plus BS4 still just an alpha.

dillix’s picture

Status: Postponed » Active

An alpha 2 here. I think we can create 7.x-4.x-dev branch so people will create patches for it.

markhalliwell’s picture

Status: Active » Postponed

We do not develop from alpha releases.

RobLoach’s picture

For those that enjoy pretty things: http://bootstrap4.guide

ser’s picture

In my opinion we should start to work on 4.x, at least try to understand what essential changes will be required to the code.

jorgediazhav’s picture

Better to keep the effort on the stable ones. I agree with you that "we should", but not many people working on the issues right now :(

Any extra effort will be highly appreciated :)

markhalliwell’s picture

Bootstrap 4 Alpha 3 was just released. This is a perfect example of why we should wait. There were a ton of added new features, but most importantly the changing of classes (e.g. .btn-*-outline -> .btn-outline-* and others).

The whole point of an alpha is that it is completely unstable and can change instantaneously from "release" to "release". It means there is little to no guarantee of preventing BC breaks.

Things like this is what is nearly impossible to keep up with in a project like this given the time available to everyone involved. We should wait, I would say at least until a beta or two (perhaps even an RC).

For those wishing to chase this, please by all means go ahead. No one is stopping you. However this project has other things to worry about than adding this kind of time consuming effort to its list.

markhalliwell’s picture

Version: 7.x-4.x-dev » 8.x-4.x-dev

Changing to proper branch version for this issue as we are unlikely to make a 7.x version moving forward.

Robytfc’s picture

I am working a upcoming project which requires the use of BS4 so have been tinkering with getting this theme working. I fully understand the reasoning for not chasing Bootstraps alpha releases yourself, but this is not much of an option for me. Also with recent announcements from the Bootstrap team it seems progression to v4 is being push so it can be released.

Maybe you would be interested in taking a look at my changes when you are ready to start working on 4.x. and I could provide a patch if appropriate.

So far I have fixed issues with:

  • Navbar
  • Wells into Cards
  • Nav tabs
  • Responsive Images
  • Breadcrumbs
thomas.frobieter’s picture

For those who do not want to wait: https://www.drupal.org/project/bootstrap_barrio

markhalliwell’s picture

Sigh...... good luck with that....

heshanlk’s picture

Any update plan or timeline?

markhalliwell’s picture

Status is the same as it was in #12.

kattekrab’s picture

Makes sense to me to keep energy on B3 for now - we learn't a lot about chasing head in the D8 cycle.
Branching now while still in Alpha will just split focus.

I'll watch with interest though, as Moodle has already jumped to B4!

dillix’s picture

Status: Postponed » Active

Alpha 6 was released on 2017-01-06 and BS team said that there will not be any BC breaks in upcoming beta:

As we head to our first beta, we’ll be focused on not adding anything new, ideally making as few breaking changes as possible, and emphasizing documentation quality and bug fixes.

May be we should start 8.x-4.x branch and start plan for it?

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
Status: Active » Postponed

ideally making as few breaking changes as possible

This just indicates that while they still expect BC breaks, they will simply try to keep them to a minimum. It is not the same as "there will not be any BC breaks".

As I stated above in #12:

We should wait, I would say at least until a beta or two (perhaps even an RC).

That being said, I'll make it official and say that we should wait for an official RC release.

devil2005’s picture

Subscribed because i need BS 4 :)

markhalliwell’s picture

It honestly perplexes me how one can "need" alpha software... no, you want it. Big difference.

What I "need" is for them to make some progress and finally release an RC.

Also, you don't have to say "subscribe", there's a "Follow" flag (underneath the big green button at the top in the sidebar) which will allow you to subscribe to any issue you want, without having to make a comment.

devil2005’s picture

Thanks for tip, didn't see the following button (new on drupal.org and drupal)
For BS4, i need it because patch for relative font size for example are not very effective. And your theme is too good to be abandonned for my project.

So i hope it can be developed soon.

Where can i donwload your 8.4.x branch?

thanks

markhalliwell’s picture

For BS4, i need it because patch for relative font size for example are not very effective.

https://gist.github.com/jasny/9731895 works just fine if you're too impatient, but it does require some extra work to get it working "perfectly".

However, the reality is that "font size units" are a very opinionated topic with any FE framework.

There are always arguments for/against all three (px, em, rem).

I'm not disputing that it's definitely desired, I too would like rem... but again, that's a want... not a "need".

Where can i donwload your 8.4.x branch?

No where. The 8.x-4.x branch was created in anticipation of BS4 and is currently just for issue tagging/postponing. It has no code.

CatsFromStonehenge’s picture

I also need BS4, because column heights don't seem to work correctly in BS3 (the columns aren't all the same height). The answers to this question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19089384/twitter-bootstrap-3-two-col... suggest that BS4 defaults to solving the issue, but BS3 has to be changed using nasty hacks that break other parts of Bootstrap.

I wish I could help in some way to get the BS4 theme up and running.

saxmeister’s picture

I, for one, am in a government organization with design requirements that prevent the use of the combo of Bootstrap 3 and jQuery due to security issues, so our organization has a need for Bootstrap 4. Either that or a need for some other solution. If you're saying that that is not legitimate then I can look elsewhere, but my organization has defined Drupal and Bootstrap 4 for future releases. Thanks.

stevieb’s picture

saxmeister’s picture

Thanks stevieb! I have looked at that and it's a good start. I may have to completely roll my own.

markhalliwell’s picture

If you're saying that that is not legitimate then I can look elsewhere

I have never said that an individual's or an organization's reason for pursuing this route is not "legitimate".

What I have said is that Bootstrap is still in alpha releases (of date, alpha-6 is the last release since Jan 2017) and that there is absolutely no point in attempting to code or add support to this project while the external framework is currently in massive flux.

If you (the individual) choose to keep up with any changes they make during alpha/beta releases, then by all means, go for it.

I have simply chosen not to waste precious time in my life (the maintainer of this project) and "support" something that isn't even yet finished.

Rajab Natshah’s picture

Agree with Mark, I will wait .....

jimz0r’s picture

Now that beta has been officially released, perhaps now is the time to discuss the future of Drupal Bootstrap?

markhalliwell’s picture

I'm closing comments until an RC has been made.

markhalliwell’s picture

Bootstrap 4 has finally been released:

http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2018/01/18/bootstrap-4/

However, I’m leaving this postponed for now since the architecture that will be used for the new Drupal Bootstrap version is not yet ready and attempting to start work now on this will only be futile.

I will set this to “Active” once it is. Until then, any patches or comments made here will be ignored.

matt_paz’s picture

since the architecture that will be used for the new Drupal Bootstrap version is not yet ready

Smart to get ahead of this and reinforce that this will remain postponed, but just of curiosity, what are some of the architectural considerations that are holding this back?

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes

I've updated the IS to explain a little more.

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
dillix’s picture

Mark, I can help to make V4 theme, but there is a lot elements was removed: glyphicons, wells & etc. So we must decide will we use bs 3.x as start point or new theme will be written from scratch?

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
Related issues: +#2648976: Port API module to D8
markhalliwell’s picture

Title: Bootstrap 4 » [PP-3] Bootstrap 4
Issue summary: View changes
markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes
markhalliwell’s picture

hass’s picture

Please explain how to install Edge on Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1. Win 7 that is fully supported at least until 2020. Win 8.1 until 2023. Such a limitation is not ok. Bootstrap applications are not just internal. A shop is public and nobody can tell a non-customer to upgrade his OS just to shop on your website. That is a freaky joke.

Per https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/getting-started/browsers-devices/ - IE 10/11 are supported, what is important and good.

markhalliwell’s picture

Please explain how to install Edge on Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1. Win 7

There are other modern browsers, besides Edge, that can be installed on those older Windows versions.

A shop is public and nobody can tell a non-customer to upgrade his OS just to shop on your website.

No, but a site can also implement https://www.drupal.org/project/outdatedbrowser which can help explain that certain features of the site may not work properly until the user does upgrade.

Simply put: there are better ways to "support" clients/end-users than catering to their refusal to upgrade.

---

This issue is not going to turn into a "debate" for IE support.

This policy only affects newer code, code I am still in the process of migrating/developing.

If you still feel that you "need" IE support, then you're more than welcome to continue using the 8.x-3.x branch/releases.

You're also more than welcome to stop using this project to create your own Drupal <-> BS integration... and good luck with that.

hass’s picture

It looks like this are only your rules and not the bootstrap 4 framework rules what you wrote. Your rules are simply wrong! You cannot convince online shoppers to install any other browser to be able to use your website. If you will run such a site you will go bankrupt. You may force this for your internal colleagues or any closed project, but not for a public website and not 5 years before the support for them ends. If you spend 1 million eur at google advertising you do not like to block 20% of our customers. Don‘t belive what you wish to happen in a technically dream, please. It will not happen. I really want to use bootstrap 4 and not 3 as soon as possible. I‘m not going to re-invent the wheel.

Come back into the reality and follow the bootstrap 4 framework rules, please.

markhalliwell’s picture

@hass, like always, you preface your "arguments/anger" with "what ifs" and hypotheticals rather than facts.

Do not be mistaken, this is NOT a debate. Nor will I change my mind on this.

This is me, simply answering each of your sentences in an attempt to bring you back to reality.

It looks like this are only your rules and not the bootstrap 4 framework rules what you wrote.

Correct. That is now this project's policy, as stated as such in #2948782: [bootstrap][policy][8.x-4.x] Internet Explorer is no longer supported.

Your rules are simply wrong!

No, they're not, nor are they "rules". It's simply a technical debt threshold that I would like to avoid moving forward, especially considering that IE has < 3% global usage (and falling).

You cannot convince online shoppers to install any other browser to be able to use your website.

I'm not trying to "convince" anyone. People are going to do what they want to do, which is clearly and blatantly obvious since there are outliers who refuse to update their OS/browsers until they're "forced" (by whatever criteria they use to justify this term) to update.

If you will run such a site you will go bankrupt.

Then clearly this "site" has an MVP that requires IE. In which case, this means that the "site" will need to include polyfills if it wishes to upgrade to 8.x-4.x or remain on 8.x-3.x if it doesn't wish to go that route.

You may force this for your internal colleagues or any closed project, but not for a public website and not 5 years before the support for them ends.

Again, I am not "forcing" anyone to do anything. I maintain this project, not you. Moving forward, I do not have the time to continue to keep the technical debt that supporting IE requires.

The web is changing, faster and faster and faster. Hell, most modern browsers natively support the majority of ES6 at ~97%, which is far greater than Babel is (due to ES5 limitations).

This is a "blanket EOL policy" that Microsoft implements for ALL their products and is grossly misused to justify supporting outdated browsers (which should have a much shorter lifespan). 5 years is a very long time for "EOL" in regards to internet applications, it's practically ancient.

If you spend 1 million eur at google advertising you do not like to block 20% of our customers.

Again, see above regarding supposed "site's MVP/requirements" and the options available to it.

Don‘t belive what you wish to happen in a technically dream, please.

I'm not. I'm being realistic given the amount of effort and time it will take to continue supporting something with little to no benefit in the long run. It severely hinders forward movement, prevents new features and keeps technical debt.

It will not happen.

It already has.

I really want to use bootstrap 4 and not 3 as soon as possible.

And this is where the crux of your "argument" falls apart. This is your want. It has absolutely nothing to do with a supposed "site's MVP/requirements". You're basing your entire argument on your desire, not facts.

I‘m not going to re-invent the wheel.

Neither am I. Which is why I'm ending "official" support for a browser that continues to limit support of new features. This doesn't mean that the community at large will still (likely) continue to unofficially support it via issues and patches (as is with any other EOL software, which 8.x-3.x will be once 8.x-4.0 is released).

Come back into the reality and follow the bootstrap 4 framework rules, please.

I haven't left reality. You also make the assumption that each project's "support" somehow dictates that the same "support" is grandfathered in to other projects that use it.

Drupal Core (since 8.4.x https://www.drupal.org/node/2897971) only supports IE 11.

BS4 supports IE 10+.

By your own logic, this means that BS4 should somehow "dictate" to Drupal Core's project that it should still keep support for IE 10 because someone "might" decide to use BS4.

Support doesn't work that way.

Each project determines what it is willing to "support", I'm simply (and finally) making this delineation official now for this project.

A perfect example of this is the recent commit of #2831237: Bootstrap modal does not work well with jQuery UI dialog. This is a years-long issue (in one form or another) that is extremely complex due to the nature of how Drupal core's dialog/modals work and how Bootstrap's modals work.

I started real work on this over two months ago. In all that time, no one even remotely mentioned any issues with IE. Nor was it until it was actually released that several IE specific issues were created in regards to this issue.

What this policy does mean, however, is that when issues are created (and believe me, they will) for "help, this doesn't work in IE", I'm not going to waste my time on issues that only affect a very small percentage of its install base.

If someone from the community wishes to debug and/or fix said issue because their site requires supporting IE, then they can create an issue and patch. I'll close as "won't fix" because of said policy, but then you (and everyone else) will have said issue and patch that you can apply to support your site until you decide to drop support for it.

This entire policy is only about shifting who's responsibility it is to "support" IE.

I'll give you a hint: the person who develops a site that requires it.

markhalliwell’s picture

Oh, and for the record, this project has always and purposefully left "IE support" in an ambiguous state:

From: https://drupal-bootstrap.org/api/bootstrap/docs%21FAQ.md/7#ie (since 2015-11-08, commit bd58948):

Q: Do you support Internet Explorer?
A: No, not "officially"

Yes, I have in the past made commits specifically for fixing IE bugs as they came along due to interest or if someone provided a patch. However, this was always done so at my leisure and with great reluctance because I didn't want to set a precedence that it was "officially supported". although most just assume it is.

So this isn't something "new" and it isn't something that I just "created out of thin air".

The above policy finally just made "No IE support" official.

oriol_e9g’s picture

@markcarver don't worry, you are doing an incredible work with this theme. Thanks.

If I or somebody needs IE suport (I hope not, cross fingers) I know that we will have to work on polyfills or implement my custom Bootstrap theme. This is an OpenSource projecte, anybody is free for forking or working in IE polyfills.

I support that the theme creator and maintainer decides what he wants to work in and what not, for me it is correct to stop supporting a marginal navigator like IE.

hass’s picture

The table from https://caniuse.com/usage-table seems very misleading and wrong. I see IE with 6% for Germany, see http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/germany. I guess this are just very technical sites that collect data. Statistics will change a lot of you switch to a non-technical site. There are other statistics like https://netmarketshare.com that see IE at ~13%. This cannot neglected and the bootstrap framework does not neglect all these IE users. If we stress this enough we may end at the middle, but it does not mean these many users do not exists.

Aside - I do not look for 100% IE support. Is just complain that the site may collapse into an unusable WSOD or something like this. This must not happen.

Christopher Riley’s picture

Working for a major newspaper corporation as my full time job I am way to painfully aware of having to deal with IE and customers using older technology. Before beating this issue to death I would suggest that you review some analytics as to what browsers are being used on your sites. If you find that support for older IE is really necessary that you resign yourself that if you want to continue using the Bootstrap theme that you realize that you will need to spend some time fixing it yourself. Bootstrap 4 doesn't support IE 8 or 9 and has very limited support for 10.

I would much rather see Mark and the others spend the time to get a working B4 version instead of this debate.

Just my two cents.

markhalliwell’s picture

The table from https://caniuse.com/usage-table seems very misleading and wrong.

No, it's not. It's an approximation of worldwide usage, regardless platform, which comes from http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share.

I see IE with 6% for Germany

The reason Germany is "higher" is simply because that is a localized statistic and its percentages change due to different data and criteria.

Ironically, if you filter the statistics to just "desktop" browsers, this number jumps up to just over 10%:
http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany

Maybe you should learn or relearn how statistics work.

I don't base my decisions on only Germany's statistics.

Nor do I base them on "just desktop" browsers.

I base them on worldwide statistics for all browsers, regardless of platform.

This is the best way (in general context) to determine a comprehensive saturation/relevance statistic.

I guess this are just very technical sites that collect data.

You make too many assumptions.

Statistics will change a lot of you switch to a non-technical site.

See above.

There are other statistics like https://netmarketshare.com that see IE at ~13%.

Correct. Because their sample data is much smaller (100 million/mo page views) than that of StatCounter Global Stats (10+ billion/mo page views). Subsequently, you can find any data anywhere on the interwebs to back almost any argument, but that really isn't the point. I trust StatCounter Global Stats to be far more accurate and comprehensive than anything else out there. Regardless, you should ultimately rely on real site-specific statistic more than anything. Considering that this project is not "site specific", it makes the most sense to base decisions on global statistics.

This cannot neglected and the bootstrap framework does not neglect all these IE users.

No one is "neglecting" anyone. This policy, again, is simply shifting the responsibility of who should provide support, i.e. it will be your job to support IE for your sites that "need" it, not mine (I'm not your in house developer).

If we stress this enough we may end at the middle, but it does not mean these many users do not exists.

I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that globally, it's too small of a percentage to justify continuing support (for this project).

I do not look for 100% IE support.

Yes, you are. You're making grandiose and unjustified claims based on arbitrary and hypothetical situations/data that amounts to nothing but pure hyperbole. You're so caught in the "we must support X" loop that Microsoft has put us in for so long that it's second nature, I get that. But it doesn't change the facts.

Is just complain that the site may collapse into an unusable WSOD or something like this.

Considering that this is primarily about JavaScript (which should be loaded at the bottom), I would imagine a user wouldn't get a "WSOD", but rather the JS engine would simply fatal and thus the site would suddenly behave like there was no JS. In which case, again, it's your responsibility as the site builder to ensure the site works with or without JavaScript.

This must not happen.

Then do your job or start paying me (hint: you can't afford what I would charge to continue support for IE in this project).

---

Before beating this issue to death I would suggest that you review some analytics

Yes! Thank you! This is, and always has been, about removing support for something that should be an considered on a per site basis. If you know that your site needs IE support, then you'll have to take that into account when building the site (which includes polyfills and various other solutions).

I would much rather see Mark and the others spend the time to get a working B4 version instead of this debate.

Exactly. So would I. Instead, I get rants that I have to respond to because they think that these decisions just go undiscussed or are without reason.

So much time is wasted on "does it work in X" instead of focusing on getting something out the door. This is merely just the next step to ensure that we can focus on feature richness rather than supporting browsers that were built in an era where the web was considered at large mostly "static".

Times have changed. We shouldn't have to all suffer because some of us humans refuse to get with the program.

hass’s picture

@Christopher: I only talk about IE11, not 8 or 9. no idea why you think I mean 8 or 9.

jessicakoh’s picture

This may sound like a troll.

This is the chance to make people move to Edge, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Let's help killing off IE. 😅

Kinda like the floppy drive, optical drive, firewire or ps/2 mouse or Flash.

Ignore IE. Any old browsers can still render a modern website.

p/s: Just hate IE with a passion because IE couldn't display PNG image properly so I had to do a workaround (a very old IE bug).

dillix’s picture

@markcarver, please see this issue #1843798: [meta] Refactor Render API to be OO may be we should include it to Must Haves?

markhalliwell’s picture

Not unless you want this issue to be postponed for years... that isn't going to happen anytime soon (and would likely have to happen in baby steps anyway).

ndf’s picture

I have been reading through the must haves and nice to haves, and I have hard time finding actionable tasks.

But I want to help.

Currently this ambitious goal of a shared codebase for both Bootstrap-3 and Bootstrap-4 has been proposed.
Although a beautiful idea, I am not convinced we should keep going for that goal.

Bootstrap-3 and Bootstrap-4 have a lot in common of-course. But they are different. Different components, different templates and different built tools are some examples.
One intermediate layer (module? base-theme? Drupal+) for Bootstrap-3 and Bootstrap-4 would also be leverageable by other frontend-css-frameworks like Semantic-UI and Bulma too. And that would be amazingly cool Btw.
But for now I think this idea is holding up development on Bootstrap-4 integration. Except for the project-namespace I don't see why it's a must have for starting on Bootstrap-4 integration.

What about keeping it simple and use 8.x-3.x for Bootstrap 3 and 8.x-4.x for Bootstrap 4?
Then we can fork 8.x-3.x and start refactoring right off the bat.

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes

While I understand your frustration, this is just how open source works sometimes.

The primary actionable task is #2938060: Abstract non-Bootstrap specific code into separate project, which is moving all the non-bootstrap specifics into Drupal+ (https://www.drupal.org/project/plus).

So far, it's just been me slowly taking over code as needed, but anyone can start creating issues and patches there. I would certainly appreciate the help.

Part of the reason this is taking so long is because it isn't already decoupled and has too much legacy/experimental code already in place. Code that should not be used or at least not provided by this project at all moving forward. This is a hard MUST, primarily due to several bugs/features that require a more decoupled API here.

Whether or not #2547363: Use front matter to version templates can happen relatively easily enough remains to be seen and is really just a "Nice to have" (moving it now) as it would make things so much easier from a maintainer's perspective. Perhaps we will use 8.x-4.x for BS4 and then 8.x-5.x will be when both BS3 and BS4 share a code base. It kind of remains an unknown at this point because the above has yet to be completed, which is necessary with anything moving forward.

Part of my absence has simply been due to traveling and client work (which isn't using this project BTW). I'm hoping though, that may change soon as I hope to get some of this funded by future client work. We'll see.

Regardless, I am planning on allocating some more of my personal time to try and get this issue back on track.

markhalliwell’s picture

Title: [PP-3] Bootstrap 4 » [PP-2] Bootstrap 4

This is actually only postponed on 2 "Must Have" issues now, whoops.

ndf’s picture

Thanks for your comprehensive answer. I am with you that these non-bootstrap specifics should go to a separate project.

That also makes #474684: Allow themes to declare dependencies on modules very understandable.

I am also gonna allocate some time the next 2 months to help on Drupal+ with a target to get this issue done.

markhalliwell’s picture

Weekly Meeting
Every Thur 3:00 PM CDT (UTC-05:00)
Hangout: https://tinyurl.com/y7f3y8ct
Google calendar: https://tinyurl.com/ybnvlgen
iCal: https://tinyurl.com/y9sy9oem

Edit: corrected URLs

markhalliwell’s picture

Ok, well no one showed up. Granted it was semi-short notice, but I suppose let's try again next week.

markhalliwell’s picture

Hm, seems the calendar somehow messed up. I ended up creating a new one and I've updated my comment above with the correct URLs

markhalliwell’s picture

Ok. No one showed up for this week's meeting either...

stevieb’s picture

It would be a pleasure to help with templates, markup and testing .. if this this gets started my time is yours

sillo’s picture

Who is invited to these mettings you are setting up?
I mean.. It's not like people are checking this threat daily, so we can't really know untill we re-visit the threat to check the status on the issue.

Why not start a #Slack channel for Drupal Bootstrap?

I agree with #59 on what he said. It's not like it's a complete rewrite of the template. Mostly it's just classes that are changed in Bootstrap 4.

I see there is some doubt on what to name the future Drupal Bootstrap Projects.
What would make most sense is one of the following:

  1. Use 7.3x / 8.3x for Bootstrap 3 and 7.4x / 8.4x for Bootstrap 4. (keep 8.5x reserved for Bootstrap 5)
  2. Use a separate project for each Bootstrap version. For example /projects/bootstrap3 and projects/bootstrap4

Alternately, you could ofcourse stick to your own plan, and use 8.5x for the shared codebase version. But to make things simple and understandable, i think this is not a good idea.

markhalliwell’s picture

Who is invited to these mettings you are setting up?

Anyone willing to actually help.

Why not start a #Slack channel for Drupal Bootstrap?

One already exists. There is a #bootstrap channel on drupal.slack.com.

It's not like it's a complete rewrite of the template. Mostly it's just classes that are changed in Bootstrap 4.

Except... that it really is not as simple as that.

The base theme has a lot of things to rewrite, even at the most basic of levels, and if only to take advantage of newer features.

Nevermind the complete overhaul of accordions, wells, and panels that were combined into a single "cards" component.

And... all of it's JS (modals... I'm looking at you).

Furthermore, there is generally a lot of excess code that the base theme currently has that isn't even remotely specific to Bootstrap itself (Drupal boilerplate/OO code). Hence the need to [re-]move it (offload it) onto another project #2938060: Abstract non-Bootstrap specific code into separate project.

I see there is some doubt on what to name the future Drupal Bootstrap Projects.

No. There isn't really any "doubt".

8.x-4.x was always intended to be a shared codebase for both BS3 and BS4. The only reason I mentioned pushing this concept to 8.x-5.x was in case #2547363: Use front matter to version templates turned out to be more difficult than it seemed. No one (including myself) has really put a lot of effort into seeing how doable this may be yet. That being said, it isn't impossible, but perhaps not currently a hard blocker for 8.x-4.x.

Use 7.3x / 8.3x for Bootstrap 3 and 7.4x / 8.4x for Bootstrap 4. (keep 8.5x reserved for Bootstrap 5)

This is actually the current versioning scheme (as it was already decided in #2311991: [bootstrap][policy] Figure out versioning).

However, it is becoming increasingly apparent that keeping semantic version parity with an external project when this project (a Drupal project, that has no semantic versioning, currently) is nearly impossible.

The best we can do is kind of just follow the "major" version and then make subsequent releases as "minors". However, even that isn't very useful as a whole. There is #1612910: [policy, no patch] Switch to Semantic Versioning for Drupal contrib extensions (modules, themes, etc), but that is going to take a lot of time and isn't necessarily even a guarantee at this point.

Re: 7.x-4.x, this isn't necessarily going to happen. If it were to happen, it'd likely only be supported via Backport and subsequently Drupal+. This would allow us, again, to keep similar codebases and merely provide a bridge as needed (x-ref: #2987988: Bootstrap 4 for D7).

Suffice it to say: versioning is hard, especially when dealing with an external project that has a different scheme from yours. These aren't new issues nor are we unaware of them.

Use a separate project for each Bootstrap version.

No. That would be more confusing and completely alienate the current install base. Never mind the constant need to create new projects as new versions come out, which could be preemptively hijacked by someone who was just "thinking ahead". Not a really solid strategy for project cohesion.

Alternately, you could ofcourse stick to your own plan, and use 8.5x for the shared codebase version. But to make things simple and understandable, i think this is not a good idea.

I can see why it may be considered "my plan", but that's mainly because I'm the one doing the majority of all the work. Why wouldn't I choose to make this process easier on myself?

Regardless, this "plan" is something that has already been given a lot of thought and design.

Also, how is this "not a good idea"? Wouldn't installing a single base theme be far preferable?

A single base theme that is capable of supporting any Bootstrap version.

Rather than putting the pressure on the developer to research which project or which version will actually work with the version of the external framework they actually downloaded and installed?

---

Now, as an aside.

I understand the desire to "just get this out".

I want this out, if only so people stop complaining.

You are, however, viewing this from a singular perspective.

This project is the foundation for over 160,000 [reported] installs (at time of writing).

This must take this fact into account.

This must be thought out and designed.

This must have a solid upgrade path.

This must be done correctly.

Instead of attempting to "speed up" the process by proposing "alternative ideas", might I suggest that you help by furthering the plan that already exists?

dillix’s picture

I'm agree with #59. If we will wait for Drupal+, this project will never see support of Bootstrap 4 in near future. There are big changes between BS 3 and BS 4: removed panels, new components like cards, no glypicons, different col-* layout, changes in breakpoints, different utility classes. I don't understand how we can pack this into one project. Emulate BS4 stuff in BS3 and so on? So if we want to move forward, we should fork 8.3 and start to refactor it. I can help with converting templates and template logic.

We needed BS 4 template last year, so I forked bootstrap 8.3 and converted it to support BS4 here: https://github.com/dillix/bootstrap_lite
So if Mark will decide to go this way I can propose patches for template system.

markhalliwell’s picture

I'm not going to repeat myself... again...

Sigh

andypost’s picture

Meanwhile another bs4 theme found https://www.drupal.org/project/bootbase

csedax90’s picture

The approach used so far has created a series of subprojects that have tried to re-propose Bootstrap 4 with poor results.

I think it's time to realize a real course of action to begin to really develop without wasting any more time (as has already been said, waiting for future versions of Drupal I think it's just a waste of time).

markhalliwell’s picture

The approach used so far has created a series of subprojects that have tried to re-propose Bootstrap 4 with poor results.

There's actually quite a bit wrong with this statement.

  1. There was only one project created: Drupal+
  2. It is not a "sub-project" at all, but rather a project entirely independent of Bootstrap.
  3. There is no "repurposing". I don't even know what that was supposed to mean. If you're referring to taking out code that is not Bootstrap specific at all from this project (because it doesn't belong here)... then yes, that needs to happen.
  4. "Poor results"? From a technical standpoint, it's actually been quite promising. If you're referring to the fact that I'm just one person and that I have had quite a bit on my plate lately... then get involved instead of just complaining about it. These kinds of delays happen sometimes in open source.

I think it's time to realize a real course of action to begin to really develop without wasting any more time (as has already been said, waiting for future versions of Drupal I think it's just a waste of time).

The issue summary already has a "real course of action". Just because you (or no one else) wants to actually help with the said plan doesn't negate that there is, in fact, a plan already in place and easily obtainable.

I think it's time for you to realize that Drupal.org and its projects are not your own personal development shop.

If you want this issue/project to move forward, then get on board and actually help us instead of just complaining and making up stories to fit your seemingly entitled narrative.

---

It's funny how the people that complain the loudest and most frequent are also the people who don't actually contribute to the project.

csedax90’s picture

I think you misunderstood, I was talking about the issues that are arising from the need of individual companies to use Bootstrap 4. Themes that sometimes are made available to everyone, see the example of Bootbase.

imclean’s picture

...the need of individual companies to use Bootstrap 4.

I see this sort of thing a bit but I don't think it's quite accurate. There is no "need" to use Bootstrap 4 over anything else, including Bootstrap 3. Can you not build a nice theme in BS3? Or Corporate Clone Version 5 or whatever else is around?

Some people and some companies may specify arbitrary requirements before finding out if they're actually realistic options. This isn't a "need", it's an inadequate discovery process.

hatuhay’s picture

Barrio Theme Bootstrap 4 native

lukasss’s picture

Will BS4 ever be in this project, or will you need to use BS5? )))

stevieb’s picture

will there be any movement on this? I'm available to help if so

markhalliwell’s picture

Read the comments... I'm getting really tired of repeating myself.

ivnish’s picture

I think the delay in the development of the 8.x-4.x branch will lead to the fact that some other theme (such as https://www.drupal.org/project/bootstrap_barrio) will gain popularity and the development of this theme will lose its relevance.

cilefen’s picture

3.4.0 was released today with security fixes #3020589: Default to Bootstrap 3.4.0

truls1502’s picture

I am sorry for bothering you on this thread now, do you mind to tell me what the status is?

Still two postponed issues? If yes, do you mind to share the issue's numbers? So other contributors and I can try to help you by solving the outstanding issues which need to be resolved before we can go to the next step with Bootstrap 4.

markhalliwell’s picture

It's all in the issue summary.

le72’s picture

markhalliwell’s picture

Title: [PP-2] Bootstrap 4 » [PP-1] Bootstrap 4
Issue summary: View changes

Please see: #2852156: Move "overrides" source files and generated CSS to separate project

I'm also moving #2938060: Abstract non-Bootstrap specific code into separate project to "Nice to Haves". I've tried to get this going several times, but it's clear that the momentum of that effort and certain aspects of core itself have stagnated. I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon. It's gotten to a point where it would now require core patches and that's a no go. Maybe we can do it later...

So, the only remaining blocker is the last few tasks in #2852156: Move "overrides" source files and generated CSS to separate project.

Once that's done, I'll officially open the 8.x-4.x branch as HEAD.

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

Hi Mark,

I am using the dev version ( https://cgit.drupalcode.org/bootstrap 8.x-3.x branch )
I noticed that the starterkits are gone now.
Can you give me a hint on how to create a subtheme now ?
previously id did it by copying the sass starterkit.

B.t.w. nice that there will be a bootstrap 4 version soon now. Thanks so much.
I am not a programmer, but if i can help with testing i will.
You also convinced Ivan from webwash that there will be a bootstrap 4 version soon ;-)

Regards,
Hans

imclean’s picture

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

Tanks, but i still got no clue how to create a subtheme now ....

Regards,

Ivan Zugec’s picture

I have the same question as @jhmnieuwenhuis

What is the workflow now for creating a sub-theme?

For example, a CDN sub-theme?

  1. Create theme (folder, .info.yml)
  2. Then set base theme: bootstrap in the info.yml?

Is that it?

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

Same question for a sass subtheme.

Regards, Hans

markhalliwell’s picture

What is the workflow now for creating a sub-theme?

Same as it was before, documentation was still being updated, please see #2852156-16: Move "overrides" source files and generated CSS to separate project.

zenimagine’s picture

Hi, I want to test Bootstrap 4. How to install it on Drupal 8? Thank you

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

Will there also be a Sass starterkit ?
I now only see a generic one.

Or maybe it is not clear to me how to create a sass subtheme now.
Before i could copy the starterkits/sass directory

Regards,

markhalliwell’s picture

Will there also be a Sass starterkit?

No, because there's no sass source code in the project anymore, it got moved to a separate project. That is why there is only a "generic" starterkit the references/instructions for both less and sass in the Sub-Theming topic.

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

Hi Mark,

Succesfully created a sass subtheme by following your documentation.
Looks fine, going to test some more.
Thanks,

zenimagine’s picture

@jhmnieuwenhuis You have created a subtopic for Bootstrap 4 ?
How did you do ? It is not even available in Composer

jhmnieuwenhuis’s picture

@zenimagine

It was done using bootstrap 3 ( latest dev version from git.drupalcode.org/project/bootstrap )
I was looking at #2852156-16: Move overrides" source files and generated CSS to separate project.
As a preparation for the upcoming bootstrap 4.

I guess I should have entered it in that issue.

Regards
Hans

markhalliwell’s picture

Title: [PP-1] Bootstrap 4 » Bootstrap 4
Status: Postponed » Active

Bootstrap 4 development is now officially open.

The 8.x-4.x branch is now HEAD and I have rebased it off the latest 8.x-3.x code.

I suspect we will now need to create meta issues for each of the sections in https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.3/migration/.

If some of the line items in those sections are complex, we may need to split out even more additional child issues.

markhalliwell’s picture

Note: ^ This issue is no longer dependent on me or blocked by other issues. Anyone can create issues/patches now to move this along.

waverate’s picture

@markcarver: Do you want to re-edit the IS to turn this into a meta issue or would you rather create a new issue for that and leave this original one alone?

markhalliwell’s picture

Issue summary: View changes

Unlike with #1840980: [meta] Bootstrap 3.0, d.o itself has made a lot of changes over the years to support issues like this.

This issue is already a meta as it is assigned the "Plan" category; I would prefer to keep this issue as such.

We have the ability to link/reference issues now, so we can "Add [a] child issue" very easily (see just above the "Related issues" in the sidebar).

What I will do though is add the following sections in the issue summary: "Backlog", "Work In Progress", "Ready for Release".

This will help us prioritize the issues for the various phases.

I don't want to, yet, get too specific as to what releases/names will be used.

I suspect the first couple will be alphas, then betas and then an rc or two. We'll just have to see where it takes us.

As for which issues will actually make into which releases, that will be determined on an "as needed basis".

zenimagine’s picture

@markcarver Hi, when do you plan to release a "DEV" version of Bootstrap 4 on drupal.org ? Thank you

markhalliwell’s picture

When do you plan to start contributing?

zenimagine’s picture

@markcarver Financially or by submitting the bugs? If it's financially, when I start making a turnover I will donate a part to open source projects

JurriaanRoelofs’s picture

Hello Mark, I would love to see this project supporting Bootstrap 4 before the turn of the year and I'd love to contribute, but before contributions are possible I guess we need to work on a roadmap.

I suspect we will now need to create meta issues for each of the sections in https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.3/migration/.

Looks like this will be a large amount of code to develop, test, and refine. I wouldn't know where to begin. Are you planning to create above-mentioned meta issues so that people can contribute to smaller components of these issues?
If that's done it should be easier to organize contributions, or maybe even collect donations to sponsor development. Since nearly 20% on all Drupal websites use this basetheme I assume many people are interested in this development.

markhalliwell’s picture

Financially or by submitting the bugs?

I primarily meant submitting issues/patches.

Are you planning to create above-mentioned meta issues so that people can contribute to smaller components of these issues?

At some point, yes. That being said, anyone can do this.

---

I've also gone ahead and created a GoFundMe campaign, please retweet (I have no followers as I just got back on Twitter again):

https://twitter.com/_markcarver/status/1153686143197745156

super_romeo’s picture

I've donate some.

ytsurk’s picture

If you are a developer and need to start a BS4 project now, I can recommend BS Base.

markhalliwell’s picture

So the GoFundMe was more or less a bust and I decided to stop that campaign :'(

@super_romeo, I appreciate the donation. You were the only one that did though. If you wish for a refund, please contact me directly and I will gladly do so.

Instead, I've decided to move all funding efforts, both for this task and long-term maintainability, to Open Collective:

https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap

Please retweet: https://twitter.com/_markcarver/status/1163855384290836480

super_romeo’s picture

@markcarver, please keep it for next bootstrap 4 development.

Chris Matthews’s picture

Is current/future development dependent on a certain fundraising goal being met on https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap?

dqd’s picture

Not only. Sure it helps to support the maintainers and contributors who spend a lot of time and hard work on it over the years, but I am pretty sure that just clicking the donate button and sending some tip won't change the over all situation. You feel better then, right. And I strongly advocate for doing so. But I think it's a matter of all over activity too. From all of us. The whole discussion about Bootstrap 4 and how it should be conceptually changed, all the detailed reports and ideas layed out clearly by the maintainer which needs help of others and all the other Bootstrap 4++ projects on D.O. rizing make the whole situation a bit tricky. Additionally there are more and more headliess Drupal groups who step away from theme contribution support on Drupal. Etc, etc. I am very very worried about that the focus gets lost here, TBH. I really strongly recommend to merge forces on Bootstrap.

Apart from that we can actually make a jump over 4 directly to the next, since Bootstrap 5 is already announced for this year. So the more important question is rather if we make the Drupal theme really tight dependend to a certain Bootstrap version or if we better should make it more open to easier maintain Bootstrap library versions. But as I sad. The maintainer of the project layed that all out very clearly already in the respective issues. Important side note: In favor of pure javascript, the bootstrap team has removed the largest client-side dependencies, JQuery in Bootstrap 5.

ser’s picture

Realistically, there is no chance to finish Bootstrap 4 support until Bootstrap 5 is released, so maybe it would be practical to forget about version 4 and concentrate on 5 to have it before Bootstrap releases version 6?

Chi’s picture

Chris Matthews’s picture

@markcarver, are you able to weigh in on this issue?

markhalliwell’s picture

Now that #474684: Allow themes to declare dependencies on modules made its way in (8.9.0), that means that #2938060: Abstract non-Bootstrap specific code into separate project is actually more of a reality now.

I de-escalated that issue from "Must Have" to "Nice to Have" due to "core issues", but I'm wondering now if that is still the case and it should be reversed because of ^.

---

@diqidoq made some great points:

The whole discussion about Bootstrap 4 and how it should be conceptually changed, all the detailed reports and ideas layed out clearly by the maintainer which needs help of others

Yes, this project is going to need the help of others in regards to this topic. It's a large topic and I cannot always spin up an instance to code every aspect of it, but I can certainly provide feedback and direction.

all the other Bootstrap 4++ projects on D.O. rizing make the whole situation a bit tricky

This is what saddens me the most. Instead of contributing back to this project, people are making their own. This splinters and fragments the community and just further stalls any progress existing projects/code may have had.

Additionally there are more and more headliess Drupal groups who step away from theme contribution support on Drupal.

Sadly, this is also true and also why I haven't been able to work on this project via my day job. My day job projects have moved to Vue.js (or are still stuck on D7).

Apart from that we can actually make a jump over 4 directly to the next, since Bootstrap 5 is already announced for this year.

I suspect the jump from BS4 to BS5 will be similar to the jump from D8 to D9, I don't suspect a lot of major changes that would warrant completely skipping BS4. Even for the simple fact of providing a way for existing (custom/other projects) BS4 implementations a way to "upgrade" via this project and then onward to BS5.

So the more important question is rather if we make the Drupal theme really tight dependend to a certain Bootstrap version or if we better should make it more open to easier maintain Bootstrap library versions.

Personally and the primary goal of this issue was to attain the latter.

#2547363: Use front matter to version templates could make versioning templates a lot, lot easier moving forward (even if we have to provide our own BC implementation until core actually commits that issue.

---

What this issue really boils down to is this: I need help. I've said this several times now.

Constantly commenting on the issue mentioning new BS5 milestones doesn't change the fact that this is a separate project with a separate team (pretty much only me at this point). So unless I magically get new work that explicitly wants BS4, my time on this project has been severely limited. Nevermind my personal life. I can't always spend my free time on projects like this either. I know I have in the past, it's what got us the OOP D8 version, but honestly, that was just lucky timing in my life.

I have been seeking new co-maintainers for this project for quite some time. Part of that process though is being able to take what I've already outlined here and run with it. Create new issues, post new patches, let me review your work so I can see how well you know the project. Over time, I'd be more than happy to make people co-maintainers for this project. This burden shouldn't just fall on my shoulders. It should be a community effort.

Even if you're not technical, we could still use people to help maintain the issue queue. Lots of duplicates get created. Lots of open-ended or site-specific questions. Helping weed out the issues for others to help focus on would also be a tremendous help.

markhalliwell’s picture

Is current/future development dependent on a certain fundraising goal being met on https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap?

Not at all.

The entire purpose of https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap is primarily to fundraise money as an incentive for other people to become involved. I am lucky, for now, that my day job is a sufficient source of income for me personally. I would not feel right taking money from https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap at this time (may change, who knows... that's life, but if it does, I would still follow the project's expense policy).

Anyone can file an expense/invoice: https://opencollective.com/drupal-bootstrap/expenses/new

The expense policies are on the right column and try to explain how it works, but this money is y'all's for the taking. Just have to do the work and file an expense for it.

The current limitations are based on the fact that we currently have very little monthly income. If y'all would like more, help promote it :D

Ask the businesses y'all work for to donate or sponsor this project. Monthly/yearly/one-time... whatever works for y'all.

wwwahe’s picture

Hello @markcarver

That's a great news !
The Drupal Bootstrap theme helps me a lot in building collaboratives platforms for my clients.
This theme makes me pick Drupal as CMS rather than other one and make me discovered the Drupal community behind.

Drupal + Bootstrap theme is cleary a game changer for building collaborative platform (mixing back and front in a same theme).
It allows to build unified experience that contributors love.

I'd love contributing to the effort bringing it to the next level : Bootstrap 4.
As a contributor or sponsor.

I'll send you a private message in that way.

Thank you once again for the amazing work.

Regards

Chris Matthews’s picture

@ser said,

Realistically, there is no chance to finish Bootstrap 4 support until Bootstrap 5 is released, so maybe it would be practical to forget about version 4 and concentrate on 5 to have it before Bootstrap releases version 6?

FWIW, I agree but curious what the other 193 followers on this thread think about jumping from B3 to B5.

sclsweb’s picture

I'm sure Bootstrap 5 and 6 will be great, and it would be a feat of technical perfection to have them in a Drupal theme upon release.

But I just use the theme, I don't contribute code for it -- and it would be awfully useful to have a Bootstrap 4 theme to use in the years to come until then. I cry a little every time I have to bolt all the code for flexbox and cards onto poor old Bootstrap 3. (But I do it anyway, because what else am I going to do? base off Zen? no.)

aangel’s picture

I'm testing to see if I'll specify Bootstrap 5 for a client so I'm playing around with it just by making my own theme. Also playing with Bootstrap Layout Builder, which brings nice new functionality for layouts that conform to the grid, backgrounds, typography and more. Highly recommend folks check it out. It was made for BS4 but requires only slight changes to make it work for BS5.

While doing this I've looked at why someone might want to stay with Bootstrap 4 and it seems the best reason is if they need compatibility with IE10 and 11, which is being dropped in BS5. If that's not needed, hard to specify version 4 when BS5 just released its Beta 1.

The changes from BS4 to BS5 seem incremental. (Note: I've *just* started using it; ymmv.)

There are other options for Bootstrap 4 in the Drupal ecosphere. To me, it seems just fine for this project to jump straight to version 5.

dimr’s picture

Moving the efforts from Bootstrap 4 to Bootstrap 5 has sense from my point of view.

mkindred’s picture

I've been following this issue with interest, but I don't develop enough new sites these days to have a strong opinion on the issue. For the few bits of new theming I've done recently, I've used Radix / BS4, and I've been happy so far.

My largest client will probably need IE10/11 support for a while longer, so that will come into play for me when the time comes to decide (concurrent with D7 -> D8/9 upgrade).

Bwolf’s picture

I would be in favor of updating to the least disruptive Bootstrap version for users.

This is an awesome project. Thank you Mark for your hard work and dedication!

tonytheferg’s picture

Totally new to this discussion, but glad to see the interest in it. I have a Drupal 7 to 9 migration with this theme and am trying to decide what will be the best solution when D7 EOL roles around. I just recently tried the current B5 solution on Drupal, and am finding it to be a bit of overkill.

Do we have a to-do list to begin making steps towards 4/5 so that we could support the efforts, or any volunteers to help @markhalliwell maintain?

I don't have any experience with the project, so I would probably just make a mess trying to help in the issue que.
It seems there is a lot of community interest in this theme being upgraded, and I for would be happy to pair up with someone to sponsor a little work.

That being said we would need a clear prioritized plan as to what is needed and how it needs to be done.

ressa’s picture

Bootstrap is awesome and has been a rock solid sub-theme solution for many years, so thanks to Mark for all the work he has put into it over the years!

Until Bootstrap gets ready, using Olivero as a base theme could be an alternative solution, see #3214072: Provide an Olivero sub-theme creation tool. Feel free to try it out, and make suggestions for any improvements.

zenimagine’s picture

I switched from Bootstrap to Olivero and have no regrets.

All the bootstrap themes that were created with this thea which seems to stop moving and the 50 theme versions for drupal with bootstrap 4 and 5, STOP.

Bwolf’s picture

Is there a timeline yet for moving this project to Bootstrap 4/5?

This is an awesome project. Thank you Mark for your hard work!

tonytheferg’s picture

Not sure if all development has stalled on this or not, but I decided to use https://www.drupal.org/project/bootstrap4, and have been pretty happy with the simplicity of it. There is also a boostrap5 project which I've yet to try.

Thanks for a great bootstrap 3 solution! ✌️

markhalliwell’s picture

I'll make this short and sweet. I'm officially leaving this community. I have already transferred ownership to wundo. If anyone else wants to try and tackle this project and become a co-maintainer, please feel free to follow the workflow outlined here: https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/managing-a-drupalorg-theme-module-or...

joel_osc’s picture

Thank-you for all your hard work over the years @markhalliwell, the community really appreciates your awesome work. Good-luck on your future endeavours.

AndyD328’s picture

As above, thank you for all your work in the community, it has been hugely appreciated. Best wishes with whatever comes next in your life.

pick_d’s picture

@markhalliwell

Thank you for your work, time and dedication. Good luck.

grahamvalue’s picture

The production site has been on this theme since 2015.

Thank you and good luck, @markhalliwell.

ndf’s picture

@markhalliwell Awesome dedication and contributions 👍 Good luck!

saxmeister’s picture

Definitely, thanks for your dedication to this project over the years. Best wishes to you in your new endeavors.

chike’s picture

Bootstrap 3 is more or less archaic and my favorite Layout Builder module, Bootstrap Layout Builder has dropped support for it. What is the haziest guess as to the chance of adopting Bootstrap 5 in this theme?

thomas.frobieter’s picture

@chike We've reviewed some BS base themes in order to switch from Foundation to BS 5. Our result was to not rely on this project anymore, the activity seems very low since Mark left the building. Even if the work on BS5 starts, it will take a long time to finish this.

So IMO, you should step away from this project and choose one of the other existing BS5 themes:

  1. https://www.drupal.org/project/bootstrap5
  2. https://www.drupal.org/project/bootstrap_barrio
  3. https://www.drupal.org/project/radix
chike’s picture

Thanks @thomas.frobieter how easy would it be to switch an existing site?

shelane’s picture

We will be using radix. There are a number of other Bootstrap themes listed in the project page. I adopted this theme to update to Drupal 10 to allow time for us to transition to Bootstrap 5 with another base theme. I have no plans myself to update this theme for Bootstrap 4 or 5 since there are others out there.

Chris Matthews’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)
Chris Matthews’s picture

Is the Bootstrap 3 version being maintained? If not, should the 'Maintenance status' field be updated to 'Seeking co-maintainer(s)' or 'Seeking new maintainer'

chike’s picture

Thanks @shelane I think it makes sense to use one of the solid B5 base themes already out there than split energies making this theme use B5. I will plan to switch our site to one of the B5 base themes perhaps one of the ones mentioned on the project page.