While learning drupal module development for application building in last three-four months I have realized that there is nothing you can't do using drupal. You can also keep it reasonably lightweight as any other PHP framework.

But now when I am at a point when I can say this (and able to develop anything using drupal) I am realizing that most of the application work out there is in .NET and the rare projects which are in PHP are built on a framework (CodeIgniter, Symphony, CakePHP etc.). Even new projects have one of these framework as requirement.

Drupal is used strictly for website development. My question is why Drupal is yet not seen as a tool to build apps, and If you are a drupal module developer, and developing apps,

  • How are you finding prospective clients (In Canada, if location matters)?

Thanks,
Nick

Comments

WorldFallz’s picture

My question is why Drupal is yet not seen as a tool to build apps

I've wondered this myself many many many times. I use drupal exclusively to build complex applications that just happen to have their interface through the browser. I'm a one-person show and it saves me untold amounts of time. Indeed, the only reason I alone can develop and support the apps I do is precisely because they're drupal based and not simply framework based. Using any other tool would require a small army.

I was recently reminded of this rather directly when I was forced to develop an app using .NET. It wasn't even overly complex, just a very basic front end data entry app that was driving a pretty basic SQL server report. Something that would have taken me all of a week to do in drupal took almost 6 months using visual studio, c#, jquery, entity framework, and .NET. To be fair, much of that delay was process and flawed design related, but still. The pain of having to write every. single. line. of c# and jquery code was almost unbearable. Instead of spending time perfecting the application, I wasted hours upon hours tracking down absurd EF syntax minutiae. It was so painful I don't think I'll ever agree to do it again-- regardless of the reasons given.

_
Don't be a Help Vampire - read and abide the forum guidelines.
If you find my assistance useful, please pay it forward to your fellow drupalers.

pnick107’s picture

Thanks for your reply WorldFallz,
What would you suggest a new developer to find application development work?

VM’s picture

utilize marketing skills.

pnick107’s picture

Thanks VM,
My understanding is, I am better off spending more time developing more challenging apps and less on the finding part. Which approach helped find this balance for you?

VM’s picture

IMO marketing is a large part of any successful business venture whether that is developing an app and marketing it specifically or marketing the outfit developing the app.

pnick107’s picture

With all due respect VM just like Fetch-Decode-Execute, every programmer knows business has Fetch-Code-GetPaid and repeat cycle. Did you really expect this answer to be helpful?

To me it read "If you want to be successful, get success". When the question was how?

VM’s picture

really? two days later? ok, I'll bite.

If you find no aid in the response that I provided that is fine. My response isn't just for you regardless of the fact that you asked the question. The response is for any individual with a similar business 101 question. Simply put find a demand and then generate the supply to fill that demand while meeting or exceeding consumer expectations and with a great deal of hard work and perhaps a little luck .... generate a profit.

If there was a roadmap for "how to be successful in business" then everyone would be successful in business. What do you expect beyond text book answers? IMO the question isn't answerable with any specifics for "how YOU" become successful in your ventures. Some organizations focus on a singular project or code base while others branch out and supply the market with multiple. Who's to say what is right for your business other than you? What's right for me, or others in this threads isn't likely right for you and vice-versa.

My comment about marketing was based on the concept that if no one knows about your product or service then it matters not what your business is.

For resume tips the concepts aren't very dissimilar except that rather than building or marketing SomeOrganization Inc. you are building and marketing YOU Inc.

IMO this conversation has stretched into a general discussion and the entire post should be moved. Please edit the opening post and move it. Thanks.

pnick107’s picture

Congrats VM,
For winning Stating The Obvious Award. For answering

utilize marketing skills.

in response to

What would you suggest a new developer to find application development work?

VM’s picture

my apologies I thought it was a 2 day delay but it was a 4 day delay in your undergarments getting knotted. I've no idea what's obvious to you or anyone else for that matter. Common sense isn't common. I would like to take this time to thank you for the award presented. Without you the accolade and recognition wouldn't have been made possible.

In spite of your rejection, the comment that you are challenging is a valid response to the question asked.

IMO this conversation has stretched into a general discussion and the entire post should be moved. Please edit the opening post and move it. Thanks.

pnick107’s picture

  • Fact #1: Initial questions was posted on 15th
  • Fact #2: Today is 17th
  • Someone needs to learn how to subtract.
VM’s picture

yep you're right. congratulations. Want the award back? Perhaps you can use it as a tool to get that knot out. ; )

IMO this conversation has stretched into a general discussion and the entire post should be moved. Please edit the opening post and move it. Thanks.

pnick107’s picture

I am not in grade two, and I hope you are not either.
See you around!

VM’s picture

o_O - still at it huh? atta boy! keep working at it.

IMO this conversation has stretched into a general discussion and the entire post should be moved. Please edit the opening post and move it. Thanks.

WorldFallz’s picture

Can't really help you there, I'm not freelance. As VM suggests, I would think marketing would one place to start. Market yourself as an application developer rather than a web developer or site builder. And maybe try to pitch drupal as an alternative to jobs not even mentioning it.

_
Don't be a Help Vampire - read and abide the forum guidelines.
If you find my assistance useful, please pay it forward to your fellow drupalers.

pnick107’s picture

Thanks for your reply.
I am in fact planning on learning .NET, because as of now having drupal and related technologies in the resume are not help me place myself as an application developer.
May be .NET will help and then I will be in the position to convince a prospective client if he should switch his app to drupal.

You mentioned that you develop in .NET as well. Any suggestions on the route I should take to start learning?

Thanks,
Nick

VM’s picture

I'd start with google and look for tutorials.

pnick107’s picture

For ASP.net I have seen w3schools and other tutorials already. Let me ask a detailed question to explain what am I looking for

  1. Is MS studio express good for the job, or is there any other free alternative?
  2. I have decided to go with C# rather than VB.net, mainly for it's syntax. Any suggestions? How's the market?
  3. Which stream of .net can provide job security for freelancers? I have created accounts on oDesk, guru.com etc to understand the trend, but could not come to a conclusion.
  4. Is there any special route a PHP/drupal developer should follow (like I have seen books titled 'Java for c developers' etc.)
  5. Any other thing that a newbie .net developer should be aware of?

Thanks,

VM’s picture

IMO this conversation has stretched into a general discussion and the entire post should be moved. Please edit the opening post and move it. Thanks.

WorldFallz’s picture

Any suggestions on the route I should take to start learning?

avoid needing it in the first place? I think I'd rather become a grave digger than have to create a web app with that technology again.

;-)

Seriously though, I don't really remember how I learned in the first place. I learned a lonnnnggggg time ago before even the existence of MVC. However, I find http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials to be a pretty good starting point (imo stick with MVC and EF). Also, any of the WROX asp.net and/or c# books are always excellent.

_
Don't be a Help Vampire - read and abide the forum guidelines.
If you find my assistance useful, please pay it forward to your fellow drupalers.

pnick107’s picture

Thanks. I will get started on that

VM’s picture

2 projects I used Drupal for were more tools/apps than websites. One was an internal reporting mechanism to manage safety data between 4 manufacturing facilities and generate reports.

Jaypan’s picture

My question is why Drupal is yet not seen as a tool to build apps

Because not enough people have built enough apps with it for it to be known as a platform for building apps.

If you are a drupal module developer, and developing apps, How are you finding prospective clients

Primarily through word-of-mouth and SEO on my site.

This thread belongs in the general discussion forum. It has nothing to do with module development or code. Please edit the original post and put it in General Discussion.

pnick107’s picture

Thanks Jaypan,

Following is what I was considering to get work

  • Online
    • Social Media
      • FB
      • Twitter
      • Linkedin
    • Blogs on various sites
    • SEO on own site
    • Job sites including the ones I mentioned like oDesk, Guru, freelancer.com etc.
  • Offline
    • Cold calling?
    • Any other way

Being a single person doing ALL of these with development is not possible. I was expecting to receive input from other users who are into application development using drupal and willing to share their experience about which methods were more fruitful for them, specially in Canada.

Thanks again for your input.

WorldFallz’s picture

I was hoping you'd move it yourself, but since you can't seem to see past kindergarten, I guess I'll have to. Post moved to appropriate forum.

_
Don't be a Help Vampire - read and abide the forum guidelines.
If you find my assistance useful, please pay it forward to your fellow drupalers.

pnick107’s picture

This post was strictly for the module developers who want to create application in drupal thus IMO belongs to coding forum.
BTW using the kindergarten example makes you look biased.

VM’s picture

your opinion doesn't seem to take into consideration the guidelines of the 'module development and code questions' forum. The opening post and ensuing discussion falls into the "if you're not writing a Drupal module, you're posting to the wrong support forum" statement of the guidelines. Please read the guidelines attached to each forum before posting. Thanks.

pnick107’s picture

@VM: Our opinions vary again. As per the same article "The module development forum was created to aid those who are developing modules or writing code for Drupal." IMO both apply to the initial post, although comments took them in a different direction.

Since you had been taking things too much personally with writing things like

ok, I'll bite.

the question isn't answerable with any specifics for "how YOU" become successful

(Which was entirely misinterpretation of the question asked. Experience of other's is what I asked for. My success comment was just an example to show how vague your answer about marketing appeared.)

...but it was a 4 day delay in your undergarments getting knotted.

...Perhaps you can use it as a tool to get that knot out.

And even when insisted that we both should stop childish behavior (grade 2 comment) your reply was

... atta boy! keep working at it.

I read all my comments too, and still not sure what ticked you off.
I'd hate to hate someone I don't even know, so please either explain what went wrong from my part, or please change your tone.

VM’s picture

A) I'm not "ticked off" in the least.
B) Tone of the written word is far too subjective thereby making it far to easily misinterpreted. It's certainly not a discussion for a software support forum.
C) As far as the hate thing goes : I've no energy to hate anyone. Especially someone on the internet. If you feel that's how your energy needs to be used. Feel free.

lastly, since you've been the only user in quite some time misinterpret/represent the guidelines. I will update them them to take this type of discussion into consideration. For the record, I believe you are going out of your way to try and find a loophole in the verbiage used.

pnick107’s picture

You are not ticked off, so this is how you usually treat people and write things you wrote?

VM’s picture

no. as stated I'm not ticked off. Do you need it written in skywriting?

so this is how you usually treat people and write things you wrote?

You don't seriously expect me to answer that do you? I know you want to find some way to generalize me, it's your prerogative to do so. However, don't expect me to sit here and defend your generalizations. I'm also not going to sit here and show you the misinterpretations contained within the way your "quoting of me" while dropping out the context of the entirety of the comment.

If what I typed in a comment box on a software support forum has emotionally impacted in an adverse way perhaps you need thicker skin.