Where would you expect Roles to be assigned/created?

There are some discussions and work in progress at the moment to change the administration user interface to be a little more friendly for the upcoming release(s).

One topic in specific that has been discussed is where 'roles' administration should be. While a lot of developers have chimed in on the topic, and those developers tend to be admins of their own sites, I haven't heard much input from the 'average' administrator on where s/he would expect to find roles administration. In other words, I found that after doing a search, there doesn't appear to be a recent thread on the topic of roles administration here in the drupal.org fora. (the ones I found go back a few versions - and the current discussion appeared only on the drupal-dev mailing list).

If there is a fairly recent thread in the general fora here at drupal.org, I'll be happy to move the discussion over there, but I thought I would post this topic to see if some administrators out there in the drupalsphere had any thoughts on the topic and would care to share them.

In 4.5 roles were put into administer -> users -> configure -> roles. I think most people agree that this was a bit hidden away (i.e. not easy to find, not where it would be expected to be found).
I seem to recall that in previous versions roles were found in administer->settings->roles. This was changed for 4.5 so there was obviously a reason for it (whatever the reason was at the time).

Basically, there are two options being put forward for the time being. I say for the time being because Bèr and others are working on a more comprehensive UI overhaul, but that is still in the early stages. But, for the time being, the proposed changes are to move 'roles' to a new administer->access control area where administrators would administer premissions (and create new roles). The other option put forward was to keep the role 'permissions' in the administer->access control, and keep the creation of roles in the 'users' section under administer->users->roles.

Where would you expect Roles to be assigned/created?
Which of the two options makes the most sense to a typical drupal admin? Is there another option that makes more sense to people?

I expect that some of the drupal-dev folks may join this thread, but I hope that we don't duplicate the discussion that we have already had. I am hoping that we can hear some feedback from 'typical' users/administrators that haven't been involved in (or aware of) the proposed changes and the discussions to this point. Where do people actually expect to or where would they like to find 'roles' administration?

andre