Figure out process for translating the User Guide

I had a brief meeting with eojthebrave and GaborHojtsy today.

Summary:
- localize.drupal.org is great for translating short strings. The UI is not suitable for large text chunks (like an entire topic) -- no space to display that and the review process is not really good for longer text either.
- If strings contain formatting, there is always room for translators to screw up the formatting
- AsciiDoc formatting can be kind of sensitive (some formatting mistakes result in not being able to compile the source)
- If we wanted to use localize.d.o, we would need some way to break up the source files into smaller chunks, and then put them back together, preserving the formatting. This would be difficult.

So... we should *not* use localize.drupal.org to translate the User Guide. It just isn't the right medium for translating a book.

Instead, we should use the Git repository for the User Guide project, and commit the translations to that repository. We can use localize.d.o as a tool to recruit translation teams and promote User Guide translation.

Process details TBD.

Good idea. I also do not recall who has been interested, and frequently the casual "when are we going to translate" inquiries are not really people who, when push comes to shove, are interested... so how about this? I'll make a post on groups.drupal.org, cross-posted to documentation and internationalization, and see who responds. Maybe Gabor can also post a link to it on the i18n blog on localize.drupal.org -- I'll send him the link.

Here's the post:
https://groups.drupal.org/node/512691

That looks like a good first pass at a translation workflow proposal (fixed one typo that could cause some confusion).

Some thoughts regarding this proposal:

a) In doing the English guide, we accepted topics in the first draft that were pretty rough, as long as they covered all of the needed information. I think we might consider a similar process for the translations: a first pass, and a copy edit or review pass. Both could get committed.

b) I've done a bit of translation of documents between English and Spanish, as a volunteer in the Red Cross "Language Bank" in Seattle, which had a well-established process for volunteers to translate documents for non-profits in the area. The process that was in place there was that volunteer A did the first pass of the translation of the entire document. The result was then emailed to volunteer B (along with the original source) for review, corrections, and proofreading. The result of that was then sent to the agency that requested the translation. Volunteer B was always supposed to be a native speaker of the target language, but volunteer A could be a native speaker of either the source or target language (or neither, for that matter).

c) If we adopt a similar workflow, probably we would want two issues for each topic for each language: one for the initial translation (whose patch/file would get committed if the maintainer thinks it's "good enough for the first pass" -- reasonably accurate and includes/translates the whole topic), and one for the review/correction phase.

d) One other thing I think we should encourage is that each translation team maintain a "glossary" so that across the whole guide, terms are translated in a similar way. Most of the teams probably already have a glossary on localize.drupal.org, so the terms for the User Guide could be added to that, or kept separately. This would include things like "farmers market", "vendor", etc. as well as Drupal-specific terms that they would probably already have in their localize.d.o glossary.

e) There will also be some startup things that will need to be done, which we should put into a "maintainer's guide" section of our Guidelines:
- Make a new subdirectory in the Git repo for the new language, by copying in the English version of the Guide.
- Add the new language to the output-generation script, and get it up on drupal.org as an in-progress version.
- Translate the text to be entered into the auto screenshots code -- much of this should also go into the Glossary, and I think it would be best if the language team leads would translate this stuff.
- Generate the new automatic images.
- For a few topics, manual images will need to be made, but there will not be too many. We'll need to write up a short guide for someone to make the manually-generated images.

f) We will also need to come up with some translator guidelines. Some things I've thought of:
- Use the standard translations for terminology that your team has agreed to.
- The "Additional resources" section lists links to pages, which are in English, where more information can be found. Instead of doing a direct translation of the link text and leaving the URL the same, try to find equivalent resources in your own language, if possible, to substitute. If not available, "translate" the link text to note that the page is in English. Example: the link text might say 'Drupal.org documentation page "Security Team"' and you would add "(in English)" to the end of the link text, before translating that link text into your language.

g) We'll need to figure out how to notify translation teams that a particular patch to the English version of a topic needs to result in a patch to their language.

Thanks for your comments @rvilar! To answer your questions and/or respond to your suggestions (not in order):

a) If one issue makes more sense for the translation teams, then that is fine with me. Then I guess the workflow would be:

Person A makes the initial translation, uploads the .txt file or a patch, and sets the issue to Needs Review. Person B reviews the translation and makes any necessary edits, uploads the .txt file and hopefully an interdiff file, and marks it Reviewed and Tested by the Community. Project manager makes a final review and either sets the issue back to Needs Work, or commits the patch.

More streamlined than having two issues. Good idea!

b) The naming guideline sounds good. For our existing issues, the issue titles are something like:

- Write structure-widgets.txt
- Copy edit structure-widgets.txt

(structure-widgets.txt is the name of one of the AsciiDoc source files)

So the translation issues could be something like:

[CA] Translate structure-widgets.txt

or

Translate structure-widgets.txt to CA

The first format might be easier to scan.

c) A random point... We have standard issue templates for writing, copy editing, etc. (for the issue summary when the issues are created). These link to the guidelines and instructions. Example of a copy editing issue:
#2754571: Copy edit prevent-cache-clear.txt
So, we'll need to make guidelines and instructions for the translators, and then make an issue template for translating.

d) I think it is fine if the people translating the User Guide into Catalan communicate with each other, on their translation issues, in Catalan.

e) Another random thought... If it makes sense, we can also have a section of the User Guide guidelines where each translation group can keep their glossary and other notes... somewhere under
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/index.html
I mean -- which would mean it would need a commit to update it (this guidelines section is built from AsciiDoc source like the User Guide itself).

But it may be easier to do that on localize.drupal.org, in your existing translation group pages? I don't know which is better/easier.

Excellent idea! But we can also have a convention for the issue titles -- cannot hurt.

Here is a patch for the Guidelines section of the User Guide, with I think most/all of the ideas here. Any comments? I could also commit it if it would be easier to look at the output... let me know.

Notes:
- New file guidelines-translating.txt and the patch to practicalities.txt are for the translators to use.
- The rest is for the project managers to use.
- There are still some things to be filled out... but it might be usable as it is, except I think we need an issue template for translation issues.

Oh, the current guidelines pages that this is patching can be viewed at:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/index.html
==> Access with drupal / drupal

Thanks for reviewing @rvilar! I committed the patch. I'll update the issue summary with links and To Dos when the build happens.

Updating issue summary with the following links:

a) [probably OK] Translation contributor quick start guide:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/instructions.h...

b) [may need more added] Guidelines for translators:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/guidelines-tra...

c) [probably OK] What to do when setting up to translate a new language:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/pm-section.htm...

d) [needs to be written] What to do when the guide needs to be updated:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/pm-section.htm...

e) [needs to be written] Translation team manager guide - issue templates and checklists:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/phase-checklis...

So... the immediate needs, before we get going on translating, would be to review A and B, and add information as needed... although we can probably let the initial CA team start with this and tell us where we are missing information.

We will need to set up issue templates and checklists (e) also. I can do that in a few days.

D can wait for a little later. We'll eventually need a procedure for notifying translation teams about updates, but not until we have some translations done. ;)

Hm... It's not clear from #21, but I think that the translated versions of the User Guide would either need to have new sections added to the existing attributions.txt file, or to have two separate attributions files? Because we also need to have the existing attributions for the English version included somehow. I mean, if someone writes a book, they are still the original author, and credited, when it's translated into Spanish or whatever, right? And the Spanish directory source/es, or whatever language, needs to have the complete source for that language's book (they won't also get the source/en/attributions.txt file included somehow).

So... I think what we would want to do is have the Appendix chapter have two topics in it:

a) Attributions for the original English guide (translation of existing attributions.txt file into the other language, with nothing added, just a straight translation). This would be file source/LC/attributions.txt (translation of source/en/attributions.txt into language LC). It would be retitled "Attributions for English Version" instead of just "Attributions".

b) Attributions for the translation (completely new file, listing the coordinators of the translation, and attributions for translating and editing the translation of each topic). This would be file source/LC/attributions-trans.txt (not a translation of any EN language file), and would be titled "Translation Attributions". The proposal in #21 looks pretty close to what this would want to have in it, I think.

And then...
c) I think we would also need to modify the Copyright.txt file (in the preface, copyright.txt) -- the sentence that currently says:

See <<attributions>> for a complete list of the sources and authors of this
guide.

would be modified to say:

See <<attributions>> for a complete list of the sources and authors of this
guide, and <<attributions-trans>> for translators.

d) So when we set up a new language for translation, we would create file (b) and make modification (c) (in English), and copy in all the other English sources to act as a baseline skeleton. Then the translators would "patch" the files into their language.

The other alternative to (a) to (d) would be to have one attributions.txt file, and have each language group add new sections/lines to it... but I think this would get too messy. It seems like having two attributions files -- one a straight translation of the existing English file, and one that is just about translations, would be better.

Thoughts?

Yes, each language will be an entirely self-contained directory -- the build for the book in that language will just use the source files in that language directory.

I am undecided about translating the attributions file... I am not sure what someone reading, for instance, the Chinese version of the book would think if they got to the Appendix and there was a page in English that they could not read at all? It seems like it should be translated.

So. Another thing we could do is change the way we do attributions, and put them into each source file, leaving only the guide-wide sections in attributions.txt (which would not be so hard to translate). Maybe we should think about that? So then if we have a major edit of one source file, we would also edit the attributions bit at the bottom of that one source file, and not have to also touch the attributions.txt file.

Also then we could have the translators add their attributions for translating a particular file to the attributions in that particular file.

And then the guide-wide attributions file could just have an added section about the translation into that particular language.

hope this is clear... so:
- attributions.txt - has guide-wide information about the management/editing of the English version, plus information about the translation team management added for each language
- structure-content-type.txt (or whatever) - has attributions information for the writing, editing, and translating of that particular file. In a new section at the bottom called "Attributions" or "Authorship" or something like that.

I kind of like this idea... thoughts?

This would have the added benefit for committers that they wouldn't have to go find the attributions.txt file every time they do a commit. :)

Great! I'll put it into action... working on a couple of other things today, but I'll get to it later today or more probably, next week. Assigning issue to me meanwhile. The guidelines doc will need to be updated in a couple of places too.

I took care of this for the Guidelines and Instructions book, as a preliminary step -- committed that. For that book (which won't be translated anyway, at least I don't think we have plans to!) attributions.txt was all about the individual topics, so I was able to complete remove it.

In that book, I also updated the topic templates and the contributor guide in a few places where they talked about attributions.

It should be up on the dev site shortly. I'll work on the main User Guide next, but probably not until next week.

OK, the regular User Guide is taken care of (moving the attributions into individual files), phew! Unassigning the issue, since this tasks is done.

Thanks very much for your input, and thanks again for volunteering to have the very active Hungarian team participate in the early stages! This will be great, since I know that both Hungarian and Catalan teams are very dedicated and experienced.

It is definitely not too late to define the process and give feedback. I will read through your suggestions more carefully shortly... if you want to take a look at the links in the issue summary, where I have at least started in writing down what the process should be, that would also be helpful!

Status update: I am hopeful that we can start actually translating around September 1st -- I am trying to get the rest of the images (screen shots from the software) automated by then, and also the rest of the topics copy edited in English, so we will have some good text to translate from. :)

Also, good news: hopefully before that even, we will have the English User Guide, and the Guidelines and Instructions page up at their permanent home on Drupal.org!! I have also tested and when we're ready to put up the Hungarian or Catalan version of the User Guide, it will live right alongside the English version on Drupal.org, so that is also exciting!! :)

I just read through the comments in #33 in more detail... it looks like we are all pretty much in agreement about the translation process. We still have a few details to fill in, but not much... some of it will need to happen as we go.

I will also soon be making a list of words and phrases specific to the User Guide, as a start, that will form the start of a glossary... once I get the rest of the screenshots created (many of them are input to creating the screen shots in different languages). Hopefully the Hungarian and Catalan teams can add terms to the glossary too!

I have filled out some more of the guidelines pages (they should be up on the dev site within an hour or so, when the next build happens).

So... The main thing I think we need to figure out (not necessarily before we start translating, but soon) is what we should do when the English version of the guide has a substantive edit. For instance, someone finds a factual error in a topic, and we rewrite the English topic to fix the error. In this case, the translation groups will need to be notified that this particular topic needs to be updated in their translations. The question is, how would we do that?

Here is my first suggestion (DEFINITELY open to other suggestions):
- We make an issue component for "Translation updates" (or something similar)
- When Joe or I commits a change to the English version that means translations need to be updated, we create an issue in this component like "Translations need updating: topic-file-name.txt".
- The issue summary explains what section of this topic changed and why, and links to the commit that was made
- Translation team managers will notice this issue and individually create child issues, each in their own language component in the issue queue, with titles like "Update translation of topic-file-name.txt".
- Once all the child issues have been fixed, Joe or I can close the parent issue as Fixed.

The one flaw in this is that I can see immediately is the "Translation team managers will notice this issue" step. Unfortunately, we do not have a way on drupal.org right now to subscribe to just one issue component. The only thing you can do is subscribe to *all* issues in a project, and then I guess use a filter in your email program to filter out issues you are not interested in. I guess another thing we could do is use a mailing list that all of the translation team managers subscribe to, and when we post an issue like this, we could also send out a notice to the mailing list.

So... Any thoughts, better ideas, or improvements?

I had one more thought about the Attributions page: now that it is considerably smaller, we could move its contents into the Copyright page, and thereby not have an Appendix (which currently just contains the Attributions page). Thoughts?

Great! Let's see if our two experimental translation team leaders have any comments on the proposal in #36 for how to keep them notified about updates needing re-translation.

I'm still kind of undecided about moving attributions.txt into copyright.txt too... I might try it out and see what it looks like. Probably not until next week (taking tomorrow off for a long weekend of camping and volunteer trail maintenance in the mountains north of here).

Hi Balu, thanks for taking a look at everything! Let us know if you have any suggestions for the translator guide.

One note: the "Glossary entries needed" column on the spreadsheet was actually for the User Guide glossary section, which is at the end of the guide. But, of course, it will be useful for translators too! :) We will have to add some additional entries for translator glossaries, such as the things from the "scenario" (building a site for a farmers market -- Vendor, Recipe, etc.). I have a list of those in progress too, not in the spreadsheet yet.

@lolk -- great to see you back in the User Guide issue queue!

Oops, sorry about that previous empty comment. I just made a small commit on this issue, to add some notes about having the translators check over the screenshot images in the topics they translate, and noting any problems in the issue.

We'll automate creating the screenshots (work in progress on that!), but they will need to be checked over to make sure everything is translated, that it matches the text, etc.

Wow, excellent!

We still need to finish two things before we will be ready to start translating:
a) Copy editing the rest of the topics, which is waiting on:
b) Automating and updating the screen shots for the rest of the topics.

I hope to finish (b) in the next two weeks, and our wonderful copy editor jojyja has been keeping up with me with only a few days delay, so ... hopefully we can start translating at the end of the month.

I also need to make you a spreadsheet of some more terms that will need to be translated. I will try to do that tomorrow.

By the way you posted a link for everyone to edit your spreadsheet there... probably not the best idea! I suggest that you just share it to individuals for editing, and with everyone for viewing.

I have made a sheet with terms that will need to be translated consistently. It is in our master tracking spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ov0FyJhKrJe7PYvohzV5UrrLyRaVCy2A...
and the tab is called "Terms to Translate".

The top section is all the entries from the Glossary section of the Guide. Many of them may already be in your existing Drupal UI translation glossaries (if not, they might be good additions :) ).

The bottom section is things from the "scenario", which I will need to get translated so that I can generate the automatic screenshots for your language version of the User Guide. Nearly everything there also appears in the text of the User Guide.

The entries in the "Context" column in that section are a bit cryptic (they are identifiers from the PHP code that generates the screenshots), but hopefully they are clear enough given that I also added a Notes column. If you have questions about what anything is, please ask! The entries in that section go in order of when they're needed in the Guide and screenshots, pretty much.

Once I get translations of the bottom section, I can generate screenshots for everything through the Views chapter, which will all be copy edited by then too -- and you could get started translating that much of the guide! Then I can finish up the screenshots for the rest and we can open that up for translating at that time.

Oh, I also need to know who is the leader/committer for each language so I can add you to the project as committer and issue queue manager.

I think that before we start translating the text in the User guide (such as the full Glossary page), it would be useful if I could make screenshots in the target language.

Before I can do that, the "Scenario Text" section of the "Terms to Translate" tab on the spreadsheet I linked in #50 needs to be translated. These are pieces of text that go into the screenshot script. And I think it is complete and ready to translate!

Also, before your team starts translating, I think it would be useful for you to translate the Glossary terms on that tab in the spreadsheet, so that you can make sure those terms are translated consistently. You will encounter them in the text of the User Guide, along with text from the Drupal UI like "Apply", "Save", etc. (which are probably already in your translation glossary on localize.drupal.org).

And last week of August is fine! Not really a delay. ;)

Yes, I think we will be ready to translate most of the guide by the end of August, at least from my perspective. I am still working on the images and we are still copy editing the English version for the last few chapters, and I think we should wait to translate those final chapters for now.... But as soon as I get those "scenario text" translations mentioned in #52 and can make the images, you can definitely start on the first part!

I think that having separate spreadsheet for each language will be best. Thanks! I can only read a few languages besides English, and having 100 more sheets/column sets for all those languages will not be very helpful for me. ;)

@Balu ertl and @rvilar -- I will eventually need a 3-column spreadsheet for the "Scenario Text" translations, with:

Context (the column I called Context in my sheet) / English text / Your language text

The glossary pages on localize.drupal.org may be in a very useful format for you, but for this one purpose (I'll need this to make the screenshots) they will not be very helpful for me. Thanks!

Note: I added one term to the Glossary section of the translation terms sheet: Ajax

It is not in the glossary yet, but hopefully will be there soon. See #2788135: Need to define Ajax.

Markdown is a formatting syntax that is suitable for making web pages. But it is not suitable for making an entire book, with cross-references, an index, etc., and for taking the source and making multiple types of output (HTML, PDF, other e-books, etc.). That is why we chose AsciiDoc, because it supports all of these features.

So, I did a bit of web searching, and found this thread:
http://discuss.asciidoctor.org/Professional-providers-translating-Asciid...

It mentions a utility called "po4a", which says it can extract translatable text from AsciiDoc:
https://po4a.alioth.debian.org/features.php

Another possibility would be to extract the translatable strings from the DocBook intermediate output, which is generated from the AsciiDoc source in the process of building the HTML and e-book/PDF output. I think there are tools for extraction from DocBook -- you might check on whether the tools you would like to use would support that.

However... I just want to say that I do not really think that tools based on PO files are all that suitable for translating prose. PO files are great for translating little bits of UI text in software, but they are not really made for books. So... I'm not sure if this is really a great avenue to pursue?

Oh. I thought of a few more "translate consistently" things for the User Guide, which are the template headings:

Goal
Prerequisite knowledge
Site prerequisites
Steps
Follow-on tasks
Related concepts
Related topics
Additional resources

I'll add those to the spreadsheet.

We have a simple AsciiDoc editor with preview capability available on the "dev" site at the moment, which should also be on drupal.org soon. Once we initialize the other languages, you should also be able to view the English source, be editing your language, and see a preview of your output, all on the same page.

I managed today, finally, to get all of the screenshot automation done that could be done. Yippee!

Knowing the speed at which our wonderful volunteer jojyja works at, probably all of the English guide will be copy edited within a week. So, we should be able to start translating all of it at the end of the month.

There are 10 manual screenshots that will need to be made for each language. These are listed in file source/en/images/README.txt. We need to add that to the "setting up a new language" instructions.

All the rest of the images in the Guide are automated, dependent on the translations being provided so that I can run the automated screen shot scripts. Hopefully anyway!

Sigh. The dev site with the translation instructions, as well as the editing capability, is down AGAIN. I really hope we can get this on drupal.org ASAP.

Dev site is back up. I will add the manual images information to the "setting up" guide.

Update: The copy editing of the User Guide is officially done! At least, for now. ;)

So, we can begin translating... it's just before the start of a holiday weekend in the US, so how about if we launch on Tuesday or so? I will see about taking care of #2786921: Make a solution for creating translation issues today, and I think that is all we need... Exciting!

We are going to make one more change to the User Guide.... One of the sub-headings in all the Task topics is "Follow-on tasks". We're going to change this in the next day or two, to something else (trying to decide between a few options). So we should do that before we start on the translations.

Also, before we start translating, ... I will need a 3-column spreadsheet for the "Scenario Text" translations, for both Catalan and Hungarian, with:

Context (the column I called Context in my sheet) / English text / Your language text

This will allow me to make new screenshots for those languages. I think it will be helpful to have those in place before the text is translated.

There are also several manual screenshots. See source/en/images/README.txt for details. If someone wants to make those screenshots for Hungarian and Catalan, that will also be helpful.

New branch!

Hi folks! I just want to make sure we are communicating about translations...

The first step for the two translation teams would be to translate the "Scenario text" and get those translations to me (attach to issue here as CSV file, for instance?), so that I can make screenshots for your languages and add them to the Git repository. Making the manual images would also be helpful at this point. See comment #72 for more details.

Then we can make issues for the translations of the text of the individual topics and get going.

Also... I wanted to let you know that I am probably going to be away from the Internet for several days between now and the end of September, on two separate trips (weather permitting). So if you post something here in the next two weeks and don't hear from me for 3-4 days, that is probably why. :)

Yes, the core UI lack of translation will be a problem for creating the screenshots. So, maybe I will wait to make them until later this coming week (between the two trips).

And yes, we can make new screenshots later on. That is the beauty of having them automated. :) So if the translations for the entered text (the Scenario Text in your attachment) or the UI translations change, we can update some or all of the images. It takes some time, but it is definitely not impossible (most of the time is spent waiting for the test script to run, and then you have to just commit the changed images, so it's not horrible).

When I did the screenshot automation for the English version, I asked the copy editor for each topic to check over the images. Then I redid the ones that had problems. I made one issue called "Fix up screenshots" or something like that, and over the course of the copy editing, I kept adding items to it and fixing them. I think it would be useful to do that for Hungarian too -- make one issue for Hungarian screenshots that need updating, rather than making separate issues for each screenshot that needs to be fixed.

So... Probably if we should wait until the end of the week to make Hungarian screenshots, you could still start on translating topics that have no screenshots? In our English tracking spreadsheet, there is a Screenshots column over on the right, and many of the topics are labeled "No screenshots" so those would be good to start with. As noted on #2786921: Make a solution for creating translation issues, also I would recommend not making too many issues yet because the Guidelines pages will be moving from their current userguide-new.dev... URL to drupal.org.

Meanwhile I will go ahead and do #2798315: Make language directories for HU and CA (and also Catalan) and you can both make a few issues for topics without screenshots and get started!

Hello Catalan team!

I have created an issue #2798681: [CA] Catalan screenshots to track progress on the Catalan screenshots (there is also #2798661: [HU] Hungarian screenshots for Hungarian).

I saved the Terms To Translate sheet to the Git repository -- it is in scripts/TermsToTranslate.fods (Open Office format). So on that issue, your first task is to translate those terms so I can automate the screenshots for Catalan. Also you will need to make sure that Drupal 2.x has pretty complete UI text translation for Core, or the screenshots will have English sprinkled around.

Oops. 8.2.x of course ;)

I will update the Guidelines documents. I will also include an issue template for the screenshots translation issue, similar to the two issues mentioned in comment #78. I'm partway through this but need to run out... should be able to get it done today and then I'll get the dev site updated with the new content and post a link here....

I just committed an update to the "PM Guide" section on translations, with new issue templates for the "set up for translations" and "screenshots" issues. To test the process, I also created issues for Hungarian and Catalan, and marked the tasks "Done" that have been done in the new issue. These issues are:
#2798919: Set up for Catalan translations
#2798917: Set up for Hungarian translations

You can see the changes, for the time being, on the dev site at:
https://userguide_new-drupal.dev.devdrupal.org/guidelines/pm-section.htm...
(Access: log in with drupal/drupal)

Good idea to add Concept, Task, and Topic to the glossary. I've updated the scripts/TermsToTranslate.fods file with these additions.

I'm back from trips, temporarily (until Oct 4 anyway)...

@Balu - nice announcement (well, it looks nice visually anyway; I obviously cannot read it)!

@rvilar - congratulations on the addition to your family!

So... Let's discuss any topics specific to Hungarian or Catalan on
#2798919: Set up for Catalan translations
#2798917: Set up for Hungarian translations
or their screenshot sub-issues... and here, discuss the process in general...

Glad to see there are sprints happening soon!!! I will get going on those screenshots now.

Hi @rvilar -- I checked and you do have commit permissions on the User Guide project.

One thing that you might need to do is to go to the Version Control instructions on the project, and start over with cloning the project as a maintainer, because if you have previously cloned it as a non-maintainer, you would not be able to push changes later, or at least that has been my experience with other projects. See
https://www.drupal.org/project/user_guide/git-instructions

To do commit/push on drupal.org git projects in general, you also need to make sure that you have your SSH keys set up on your drupal.org account:
https://www.drupal.org/node/1027094

And you'll need to follow the instructions here to "identify yourself with git":
https://www.drupal.org/node/1022156#identify-global

Hopefully one of those guides will help... I don't know what else to suggest... if you create your own Sandbox project on drupal.org, can you commit/push to that?

Excellent -- glad the problem was easy to solve!

So... I wanted to check in with our two translation teams: how is the process going? Should we call this "Figure out the process" issue fixed, and open up the User Guide for more translation teams, or wait a while and see how your translations proceed?

One other question for the CA and HU teams: how is the "translation memory" working for you? And if it's working well, should we write up something for the Contributor Guide on how a translation team might use this to aid in translation?

I heard back from @rvilar, who said he thinks the process is going well for CA and we could open it up to other languages... Any thoughts Balu?

Updated issue summary -- new links on drupal.org!

OK... Well, I know absolutely nothing about translation memory, beyond what I've read in a few issues in this project. So, if you or Balu wanted to write up something about:
(a) what is TM
(b) which TM software you recommend
(c) where to get the software
(d) how to set it up and use it
(e) what the benefits are to the translation team

That would be great! I can take care of adding it to the Contributor Guide.

Excellent! The Catalan team has made a few commits also.

So I have opened up a new issue to add a guide to translation memory into the contributor guide, and I've at least temporarily assigned it to you Balu. :) I will be following along and will be happy to edit for English grammar/wording/clarity. I will leave the content to you and balagan.
#2828137: Add section about using Translation Memory to contributor guide

I will also open up that Dutch translation issue. And I will make an announcement for other translation groups probably in about 1.5 weeks (next week is a major US holiday so neither Joe nor I will probably be very available, best to wait until Nov 28 or so to start the process with other groups).

And... I think we can call this "Figure out process" issue fixed. If we need to adjust the process later, we can use a new issue.

THANK YOU very much Hungarian and Catalan teams for being willing to experiment, and providing your ideas and suggestions!!!! I'm looking forward to having (a) complete translations for both of your languages and (b) more languages getting started (and finished).

We now have an issue where we will most likely be updating the English source of the User Guide:
#2822430: Cover clearing the cache earlier in the User Guide

So, we will be testing out the procedure for notifying translation teams of updates, which is currently at:
https://www.drupal.org/docs/user_guide_guidelines/pm-guide.html#pm-guide...

I think this process can be improved, and I filed a new issue to discuss it:
#2828202: Update the process for notifying translation teams of changes
Input from our wonderful CA and HU teams would be great! And you may soon see some issues appearing in your HU and CA translation issue lists about that change.