Import default "Tags" field's help text (No one know they can use "quote, mark" in tags)

I suspect most people don't even realise that "Apple pie" is OK!

Whatever wording is decided on, I suggest using an example showing both a phrase containing a space as well as one containing a comma.

E.g.:

Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. If any of these needs to
include a comma, enclose it in quotes. E.g.: Apple, Orange, Apple Pie, "Cherry, Morello"

I think going into the realm of the "and ""this"" w,o.rks" example here is over-kill for most people.

I update the description field as suggested in comment #1

The patch applies fine. Tested it doing a clean "standard" install (this patch obviously has no effect on an already installed D8 instance). The description is changed correctly according to comment #1.

RTBC in my opinion.

I also tested it and it works with a clean "standard" installation profile.

+1 for RTBC

OK
This patch obviously has no effect on an already fresh installed D8 instance.
But applied in a simplytest installation the description is changed correctly according to comment #1.

+++ b/core/profiles/standard/config/field.instance.node.article.field_tags.yml
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@ field_name: field_tags
+description: 'Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. If any of these needs to include a comma, enclose it in quotes. E.g.: Apple, Orange, Apple Pie, "Cherry, Morello"'

I would not use "e.g.", because it is a language-specific abbreviation that may confuse people. I propose using "for example" instead. After that it can be put back on RTBC again.

added the comment created in #7 in a new patch

Looks great, thanks!

I'm sending this for a quick review by the usability team as this is a string that most people installing Drupal 8 will see. I personally find nothing wrong with it.

177 characters is a bit much no? Almost tripling the length of the description to explain the less common use case is not an improvement. What about:

Describe your content. For example: Apple, Orange, Apple Pie, "Cherry, Morello".

I miss the info about the comma-separated list of words. When I read 'Describe your content' I would probably start typing a description, not a list of words.
What about this:

'Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Apple, Orange, Apple Pie, "Cherry, Morello"'

Yep, that works too and makes is a bit more specific, that's good.

Changed the text as suggested in #13

I must say that "Cherry, Morello" doesn't make sense to me. What if we use cities as example, so we could give an example where the comma actually makes sense?

'Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Amsterdam, Boston, "Cleveland, Ohio", New York'

Yes I must say I had the same 'problem' but could not come up with a better fruit example.
I think your cities example is more clear.
I will create a new patch.

Good point, the cities example is better to translate as well. I find all examples mostly examples of how *not* to use tags. Are there more than one Clevelands?

Adapted according to #17

It now says:

Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Amsterdam, Boston, "Cleveland, Ohio", New York

There are multiple Clevelands, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_(disambiguation)

Maybe we can remove one city of this list to make it fit on one line, see screenshot.

Thanks for clarifying. But fit on one line on your computer? We don't optimize for specific screen sizes :-)

I think this is good to go.

Ah, my bad. I could have resized the window. Sigh. :p

The example now references three cities and one USA state (New York), which is inconsistent.

Also, we now have one Dutch city with three places from the US, so we might want to rework this into a more worldly example.

The current description may be inconsistent but as an example it works for me.

Do you have a suggestion to improve it to be more consistent?

Not sure I find it inconsistent - I though New York is the name of a city (as well as a state), but I'm British, so what would I know ...

How about just one example of each and going more international:

Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Amsterdam, Buenos Aires, "Cleveland, Ohio"

New York can be either the state or the city, but is (I believe) generally used to refer to the state. New York, NY or New York, New York is the city. For the Dutch among us: see Utrecht and Groningen.

Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Amsterdam, Buenos Aires, "Cleveland, Ohio"

Buenos Aires is both a province and a city as well. What about Amsterdam, Kiev, "Cleveland, Ohio"?

I thought that the idea was to have one example of a single word (Amsterdam), one of a phrase with white space (New York, Buenos Aires, Mexico City ... whatever) and one example of a phrase with an embedded comma ("Cleveland, Ohio"). So Kiev does not work. Why does it matter that it is a state as well as a city?

We should try to avoid being ambiguous, because it may both make the meaning of the example less clear, and confuse translators.

OK, but I do think that giving these three sorts of example is important. Going back to my comment in #1, I don't think the fact that you can use a phrase containing white space is obvious to people. Other software I use frequently (e.g. Picassa, Blogger) uses white space as the delimiter in these sorts of tag lists, so I would not automatically realise that New York is useable as a tag.

Having the 3 examples like StuartJNCC says in #28 is the important bit. All the rest seems hardly relevant to nitpick so much. "New Delhi"?

New Delhi apparently is also the name of a district. Maybe Mexico City #28 is the best suggestion then:

Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Boston, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio"

Thanks Xano..
You connected me to this issue last Friday on the 'get involved with core sprint' in Prague.
It's still assigned to me like you told me to.
So...why won't you let me finish it?

I posted another patch, because there had been quite a few comments without one, and keeping patches up-to-date makes it easier for people to try the change and test it in a real Drupal installation. Besides that, during mentoring sprints we try to let mentees review each other's patches. Since you did not have a 'buddy' at the sprint whom you collaborated with (as far as I know), my thinking was that an updated patch from someone else would help you better understand the issue process. It just so happened that I was the first one to decide to re-roll the patch based on the latest comments.

Here's a screenshot for easier review:

+++ b/core/profiles/standard/config/field.instance.node.article.field_tags.yml
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@ field_name: field_tags
+description: 'Enter a comma-separated list of words to describe your content. For example: Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio"'

The final period is missing.

Thanks for the screenshot. It is still a lot of text. We could halve it once more by replacing the first sentence and the "for example" bit with "These three all work:"

Or: "Enter comma-separated words to describe your content, like: Boston, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio".

Also, I'm missing a dot on the end of the line. @ellis: go girl!

Thanks for the screenshot. It is still a lot of text. We could halve it once more by replacing the first sentence and the "for example" bit with "These three all work:"

What about something like Enter a comma-separated list of words, such as <em>Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio"</em>.?
Because all three tags are emphasized, this might also make it clearer that the quotes are most definitely part of the field value.

// Edit: I just realized that using HTML tags in the description will probably not work.

Well, my point is that the 'enter words to describe your content' is documenting what tagging is, which I don't think we should be explaining here.

Enter a comma-separated list. For example: Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio".

Well, my point is that the 'enter words to describe your content' is documenting what tagging is, which I don't think we should be explaining here.

Good point. To clarify: we have standards that say we should not explain how user interface elements work. On the other hand, does that phrase not have a second purpose here, which is to introduce the example?

Hence the "These all work:"

The latest patch posted in #40 includes this:

Enter a comma-separated list. For example: Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio".

In #42 yoroy suggested:

These all work: Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio".

This is shorter but lacks the 'comma-separated' info that I think we should keep for novice Drupal users?

I am not convinced. Do we actually need to educate people about this? It seems like an edge case, and we don't need to educate about edge cases in a main UI like this

Every user who adds content is going to hit this. Tags are fairly central to a CMS. They are one of the main ways that relevant content is grouped and discovered. Seems to me it is worth a line or two of screen space and I do think the examples help. IMO the second wording in #44 strikes a reasonable balance between brevity and helpfulness.

There is no way, every user who adds content is going to hit this. It will only hit the very few users who want to add a tag with quotation marks in it. I still this think is a won't fix. We don't have to explain all entry possibilities for every field.

Note that this issue only aims to change the description for the default field in the Standard install profile. It will never appear anywhere else, so any site installed using another profile will not show it, nor will sites on which a tagging field was created after installation.

Seems like the current status on this is reasonable. I agree with Xano and Bojhan.

Bojhan and I have not agreed on anything. Also, core issues can only be set to fixed by core maintainers.

I meant to say that the latest patch provides a reasonable fix to this.
beg your pardon on setting fixed... won't happen again.

I'm sorry for being a bit snappy in my previous post. Please take a look at Status settings for an issue, so you get a good idea of how statuses are used.

typo

40: drupal-1680022-40.patch queued for re-testing.

created a new patch 41 containing:

Enter a comma-separated list. For example: Amsterdam, Mexico City, "Cleveland, Ohio".

What does the bot say?!

I am very happy with this patch. I've had several occasions in the past where I needed a comma in my tag and I didn't know how to do this. It's not only happening for Cities, but also for names: "Doe, John". Or even "Summer, 2012". A little bit of explanation for users here wouldn't hurt.

Patch #58 from @ellishettinga looks good to me, but doesn't apply against latest version of 8.x and unnecessarily adds spacing to the end. Anyway, attached is a re-roll. #drupalsouth

I also like this patch but I just want to remind people that @Bojhan from the UX team was explicitly against adding this information above. His decision can certainly be overruled but in general our UX team and @Bojhan in particular has a pretty good feel for what might or might not confuse the 80%. So I think for this patch to go in, we need to gather some arguments for this (or close this again).

Missed those comments from @Bojhan, thanks for pointing it out. Perhaps this extra help information should be provided in a tour implementation for taxonomy?

Giving Bojhan another chance to comment.

I don't think this is necessary, having it in a or outside standard profile doesn't matter to me. However it also doesn't make it longer or more complex so I am fine with putting this in.

"Cleveland, Ohio".'

That period bothered me, since I couldn't remember all the rules, but in American English I believe it should be *inside* the quotes and in UK English (which we generally avoid using) it should be *outside* but putting it *inside* makes the example confusing and AHHHHH.

So instead of getting stuck in analysis paralysis, I just removed the period, since it's not a sentence, anyway. :P And!

Committed and pushed to 8.x. Thanks! :D