I'm still at the beginning of learning Drupal 8.5 in order to build a database website.
(One hosting representative suggested that I use Drupal 7 than 8.5 - (better using the modules) but I'm less convinced.)
I know that I'm likely to need at least Domain SSL if not 'extended' in time.

I want a hosting package that ideally will be good for the longer term, as well in the short term whilst I learn and create the site.
My funds are sadly limited, so this leaves me unable to afford the likes of Acquia, Pantheon...
I see that others are Associates etc and wonder if they are better to go for ?

I'm looking at HostPapa /  Site ground / pipeten/ Go Daddy / 123-reg / 3 Essentials / GreenGeeks... but they all have a large variety of prices and in some case large variety of costs to adding on higher up SSL services later.
Some sound like they have good SSL but I've read that sometimes it's really basic and not all it can appear.

I reckon it will take me many months to create my site, so I see it that I have 2 choices.
Buy a cheap hosting package now (ensuring that it has Drush/Git in order to export my Drupal site once it's made), and ensure that I can easily move it in a years time or so, once it's complete (enough).

Some 'chat's' I've had with some sales reps, have gone well and with other's not as well. So no clear winners that way either.

I'm almost going round in circles as to try to decide who to use.
I've read other threads about other hosts in Australia and other reports on other sites, but none really help me with this.

I'm unsure too if Cloud hosting packages are better than server based one's, as some people are saying their service was slow on Cloud vs in-house Servers ?

To summarise, who do you use for Hosting services ?
Do you prefer Cloud or Server based hosting types?
Which hosting companies offer good but not expensive SSL services, or do you buy them in later & from where?
Please & thank you for all help. :)

As I couldn't see any recent answers to this (for UK/USA) I thought I'd tentatively ask on here.

Comments

VM’s picture

Personally, I suggest setting up on your local machine and developing the site there and save the money until you have a produce you can deploy.

Else I suggest expanding your skillset into learning how the underlying software on the server works and and setting up on a service such as linode if you feel you how to develop the site online. 

CreativeMagic’s picture

Thanks VM, I wasn't sure that was possible!
I thought set up had to be on a live site to enable features to work, so that's interesting.
I do feel that I don't understand anything like enough yet. But having made a few basic pages on Acquia that aspect seemed quite straight forward, however I recognise that there is a lot going on behind the scenes.
I had also thought, that if it were online, then when I'm stuck I could more easily share my problem with this community when I seek help ?

VM’s picture

when I'm stuck I could more easily share my problem with this community when I seek help

That is true but a lot can be done via shared media ... screenshots, video etc.

CreativeMagic’s picture

OK and perfectly fair enough ...
Since your post I'm looking to try and get started by myself on my 'puta and see how I get on ...
I am nervous about how to transfer it all 'over' at a future date but it might make longer term sense or I can upload pages etc once I've made the basics.
There is a growing urgency to see if I couldn't make an urgent database entry system prior to the 25th May when the GDPR new laws come into play. Just to email clients and get them to at least know where to 'sign up', with their permission !
(Edited to re-phrase the ending of my last sentence.)

VM’s picture

moving a site from development to staging or straight to live is not overly challenging. You should determine what the workflow should look like for your implementation.

CreativeMagic’s picture

Yeah - but until I have a handle on the layout sections in Drupal I can't get too involved in specifics.
However I do have a simple, logical, so easy to navigate website, already and easy to 'add to' layout. I need to convert it into a Drupal set up. As yet I'm unsure how to do most of it in Drupal bar basic pages, but I can learn and I have time to do so.
But I'm not 'green' to learning websites, as I have made them previously and one recently. So I'm familiar with many aspects of basic website construction and requirements. I understand limited sections of code but I'm no programmer.
I also first looked at Drupal back in 06/07. :)

Michael-IDA’s picture

Hi Claire,

> My funds are sadly limited
> I'm familiar with many aspects of basic website construction and requirements. I understand limited sections of code but I'm no programmer.

Then you shouldn't use D8. If you don't believe your 'hosting representative' then Google why this is true.

Based on those two statements, suggestions are:

D7
Backdrop https://backdropcms.org/
WordPress

> service was slow on Cloud vs in-house Servers

All cloud and VPS type services will be slower than dedicated (in-house) servers. This is due to the added layer of software the cloud servers have to use.

> Which hosting companies offer good but not expensive SSL services

Any firm that uses cPanel will give you SSL for free, as cPanel gives them SSL cert's from free.

> VM: Personally, I suggest setting up on your local machine and developing the site there and save the money until you have a produce you can deploy.
> I am nervous about how to transfer it all 'over' at a future date

It is extremely easy to move Drupal sites around. In general: tarball the existing site, move tarballs, unpack, done.

The entire process, including setting up the new domain and DB, takes ~10 minutes. (Excluding SFTP times)

# # #

If you want to focus on your business (and not just Drupal coding), then hire someone such as myself. I have servers in both the UK and US, but any of the small shops can help you for reasonable money.

If you just want to futz around and have no monetary goals for the site, then do as VM suggested and build it on your localhost.

Best,
Michael

Drupal Hosting

NIH Cancer Study: Supplemention with both vitamins and fenbendazole exhibited significant (P = 0.009) inhibition of tumor growth.

JamesOakley’s picture

It sounds like you're being given good advice to develop locally first. But when / if you want something public, and with limited funds, the only shared hosting I've found that will run Drupal well, at this time, are Veerotech and Big Scoots.

For Drupal 8, you'd need 2 GB of RAM as your memory limit, as 1 GB is not enough for the composer-based building you'd end up on. 1 GB of RAM is fine for Drupal 7.

For Veerotech, the "Micro" plan only gives you 1 GB, so you'd need the second one up, "Starter" for 2 GB of RAM and D8. For Big Scoots, I'm not sure what their limits are - I've only used their reseller plan and some providers offer higher limits for shared plans - you'd need to ask.

Whoever you use, only ever pay monthly until you've used them at least 3 months. The discounts for committing longer can seem appealing, but wait until you're sure. Even then, never over 12 months at a time is my advice.


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Michael-IDA’s picture

Ah, not to swat James or anything, but you can find 6GB, 4CPU, pure SSD VPS's for $7/month...

The one I use (4+ years) in the UK is:

https://vpsdime.com/

And no, that isn't an affiliate link, so no I'm not getting anything for recommending them.

Best,
Michael

Drupal Hosting

NIH Cancer Study: Supplemention with both vitamins and fenbendazole exhibited significant (P = 0.009) inhibition of tumor growth.

JamesOakley’s picture

I was making an assumption about the OP's technical level that may have been unwarranted, so apologies to CreativeMagic if so.

Sure, if he's happy to run an unmanaged VPS, then there are some very good deals to be had. If not, then a fully managed VPS was probably beyond budget, so therefore Shared would be next - which can be done provided it's chosen carefully.

Now we've given them a bit more to choose from.


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CreativeMagic’s picture

I'm not sure what I'd call my technical level ! :) No offence taken. At this point I'd far rather more stated than not. I rarely ever get offended, I'd just ignore what I already know etc ...

I'm not yet sure what advantages a 'managed or unmanaged' VPS may or may not provide?
So far I've just asked when queries come up on old websites that I run. I don't believe that they are 'managed' but just that help is on hand if and when needed. 
So a further explaination of managed and unmanaged would be helpful. Thanks.

What I am trying to do, is to find the best and most efficient route to getting started. I can afford some costs but budgets are tight at the moment.

To explain a little (& without going too off topic), I am looking to set up an online searchable database, with entries by many, with password access only. Self entry & editing of, and for, each of their own 'listings'.
So I want the basic system 'operational' and proven to work, online as that is key and important. Hence my interest in developing it 'online' but, this may not have the importance that I had initially thought.

CreativeMagic’s picture

Thanks I'll check out Veerotech & Big Scoots.
Sorry for the delay in replying - had my other laptop fail and had to change laptops, which has caused a whole host of issues!

I'm not too sure how the 2Gb Ram as 'my' memory 'limit' comes in, exactly, or did you mean minimum ? (for Drupal 8 and 1Gb for D7).

I'm not wanting to keep changing every 3 months, so had been hoping to find someone to stay with for a year minimum while I develop the program.
I don't 'mind' too much, if I develop online or not, but I can see advantages to it being so.

I can see from replies too that 'moving' the site isn't 'difficult', (apparently), but I do have concerns that any moving might still cause some issues. But perhaps this is just my inexperience showing through!
Thanks for all the comments. It's all helpeful and all interesting. :)

JamesOakley’s picture

The questions in your two most recent posts are related, so I'll tackle them here together.

First of all, let's be clear on the difference between Shared Hosting and VPS. In both, you share the use of a physical actual server with other users.

With Shared Hosting, the provider loads an operating system onto the server (probably a flavour of Linux), and then a control panel (probably cPanel), which brings with it a database server (MySQL), a web server (Apache or Litespeed), and other software you need to run a website. They then create you an account on that server, so you can create your own databases, you have a directory for your own website, and so on. You're using a share of the server, but other users are using the same MySQL, the same discs, and so on - but it's all isolated so you can't see their files and they can't see yours.

With a VPS, the provider divides the server up into a number of mini "virtual" servers. Each is allocated an amount of memory, disk space, and so on. You're then given your own virtual private server to use. You haven't got your own physical server - you're sharing - but it will appear to you as if you have. You have root access to the VPS, to install your own software, and so on. You'll need Linux of some sort, a control panel (unless you want to do everything on the command line), database software (like MySQL) and so on.

In all these systems, your host will not configure your website for you. You have to handle installing, configuring and updating Drupal. Some hosts may give you best-effort help if you get into difficulties, but it's best not to assume this. They'll help you with your hosting environment, but assume that, if you need help with your website itself, you'll have to get that help from someone other than your hosting provider.

So to your questions.

First you asked: What is the difference between a managed and an unmanaged VPS? Simply this: As I said, a VPS needs an OS and other software installing on it. If the VPS is managed, the hosting provider will install what you need, secure the server, and perform other upgrades as you request them to do so. They'll also help with any trouble you have getting the (virtual) server to work as you need it to (although, to repeat, they won't help you with your website). With an unmanaged VPS, they won't help you. They'll give you an uninstalled VPS, and a control panel that lets you install Centos, Debian, Ubuntu or whatever to wish. Then it's over to you: If you need a hosting control panel, you'll have to install that yourself. You're responsible for securing the (virtual) server, and making sure any crucial updates are applied in a timely manner.

That's why I asked how technical you were. To use an unmanaged VPS you need to be confident that you're able to do all those tasks, otherwise at best you get stuck and at worst your server is hacked and taken over by someone malicious.

I therefore suggested you go for shared hosting. A managed VPS is pricey (think: $40 per month upwards); an unmanaged one may cost no more than shared hosting, but requires technical expertise you may not have (and I think you've since confirmed that).

Next you asked what "your memory" means in shared hosting. Simply this: There are various processes running on a shared hosting server that you get to dip into and use as you need to: web server, database server, DNS server, firewall, etc. But as you run your website on there, you'll find you also launch processes of your own. The most obvious are PHP processes: Each time someone requests a page, a PHP process runs to form that page. There are other processes you'll start as well, most notably if you're using Composer to install or upgrade a Drupal 8 site. (That's slightly over-simplified, but it'll do).

Any good shared hosting providers will install software called "Cloud Linux" on their servers. This ensures each user is fully isolated from all others, but it also allows them to limit how much of the server resources (disk read/write, memory, processor power) each user is allowed to use. This stops one website from hogging all the CPU or memory on the server, so that everyone else's sites run at a crawl. The limit we're talking about here is memory: There's a limit on the amount of RAM that can be used by those processes that your account owns.

Most providers have 1 GB or less for this limit, which is absolutely fine for a moderately busy website running its PHP processes. But Drupal 8's Composer installation alone uses more than that, which is why you need to ask about the "Cloud Linux Physical Memory limit" before signing up with any provider.


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CreativeMagic’s picture

Thank you James.
That is all very helpful and most informative. Some of it confirms my thoughts of how things might be and some explains things in detail that I didn't know.
The memory explaination is most helpful.
The managed and unmanaged sites is now clear to me. Thank you so much for all of this., I am most grateful.
I've been around computers since an Amstrad 624 (I think it was) with a cassette in the mid '80's !
My late partner was a computer electronics engineer, in hardware & software (total genius/whiz kid, wrote several patents etc - he learnt C+ in 2wks, & knew machine code, inside out), I picked up a heap of information from him, Through the late '80's - '90's especially computers developed exponentially. I certainly recognise how little I know but with time I can learn! :)

l will plan to obtain a managed site (soon or when ready), thankyou.

I'm still undecided if to work in Drupal 7 or 8. I've also just had to move from my Win 7 prof laptop, to a Win 10 prof one, in case this makes any difference?
My project in brief : I want to make an online searchable database, Visitors need to be able to go online, log in and enter their own data, and click all 'check boxes' which apply to them in all the different 'sectors', and they might take a few visits to fully complete (or update) their Entry. All users have to be logged in even to view the online directory data.

My plan is to start Drupal on my laptop and see how it goes.
So do I try with D7.xx or go striaght for D8 which claims various aspects of 'setting up/panels etc' are 'better' ... but others have suggested D7 offers better 'set up' esp for non-programmers ?
(If I'm understanding them correctly)
Whilst I could just start with D7, & 'upgrade to D8, my problem with this option, is that I wouldn't know D8 could get me 'unstuck'! :)
So what do you think please?

JamesOakley’s picture

First of all, I thoroughly enjoyed this aptly chosen phrase in your comment:

I picked up a heap of information from him,

As for D7 versus D8, I'd suggest you go with D8 if you can.

The learning curve is steeper. But, it's the future. Eventually D7 will go away and move to be unsupported, so anyone staying with Drupal needs to learn the D8 way eventually. And, as was said above, D9 won't be very different. Also, whilst D7 -> D8 migration is available, and is now feature complete, it's a big migration and you're better to start on D8 and avoid it if you can.

There are still some modules and themes that aren't ported and ready to go with D8, but far fewer than used to be. So I'd start trying to do what you're building in D8. If you find you're getting stuck because you need a module that has no D8 version or equivalent, then that may be the point where you have to work in D7.

That's what I meant by "if you can"


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CreativeMagic’s picture

:) Aww thank you! He was a very special chap, and an exceptional programmer and hardware designer. So heap seemed very apt! :)

I'm very happy to go for D8 (8.5.x) and get started. I'm thinking that it'll take me a year to really 'learn' it enough in order to do what I want (& more) ... so if I got stuck then perhaps moving to a different section for a month or two, might then see that module/s updated to D8 - I'm guessing?
I do know it's a precipice of a learning curve!
Seems unreal to me that the 1st Drupal that I downloaded was about version 2! It's been a tough time! But I'm there now! :D
Thanks for your help. :)