Drupal 10, the latest version of the open-source digital experience platform with even more features, is here.I know the question may seem shocking as Drupal (and WordPress) is open-source, but hear me out.
I make a living out of developing websites and I've recently started my own company. I used to work in web agencies where different types of people would handle the different aspects of a web project (design, coding, project management, etc.). I used to be part of the coding team but now that I'm on my own (I'm a 1-person business), I can no longer spend as much time on the coding and I'm getting tired of re-inventing the wheel every time.
Which is why I started investigating open-source CMS, and more specifically Drupal, which provides a number of out-of-the-box features that most websites need and that I would no longer need to code (but could customise if needed).
Taking this one step further, I was thinking, why not reduce the coding part even more and become a Drupal service provider (ie. sell packages containing Drupal + hosting + support) instead of custom developments. My clients would then be able to do the customisation themselves should they want to. Or I could still provide my services as a "consultant". To see what I mean, have a look at Bryght, they are what I would like to be! ;-)
With this objective in mind, several arguments speak in favor of using Drupal:
- It matches my core skill-set (PHP/MySQL).
- I like the product. What it does, how it does it, its flexibility.
- I like the Drupal community. The leaders (or should I call them mentors?) are people I admire, as well as the whole community for the great work they have done so far.
- I like the idea of being part of a community. It never happened to me before; I was only "part of" the companies I used to work for... shame, isn't it? But contributing, helping in Drupal development, and the whole idea of open-source in general all appeal to me.
- I like the spirit of Drupal. This last point is totally subjective, and probably a combination of all my previous points, but Drupal has - in my opinion - a "cool factor", something that makes me like it. That's not to be neglected if I am to spend the next years or so working with it.
With so many "I like" 's, you might wonder what I'm getting at. :-)
- Is it a viable business model for a company to sell Drupal-related services?
It seems that selling services or hosted software is the way to go for any company doing business in open-source (RedHat, Bryght, Zimbra...), but is there actually a need for these services when they are around a product like Drupal? Sure, people need websites, but companies use web agencies, individuals use blogs, geeks install Drupal themselves... Who would be the typical client of a company selling Drupal-related services?
- Then there's the marketing aspect. Isn't Drupal hard to sell?
At the moment, blogs are hot. People want them (it seems), they know what they are, they know how to use them, they "get" blogs (or do I live in geek-land?). While I'm sure Drupal is much more than a blog software, isn't the whole functionality it provides overkill for most users*? It makes Drupal more difficult to understand for the end-user and therefore more difficult to "sell". It doesn't seem to be the case with blogging software like WordPress which as a reputation for easiness and usability (hence the title of this post).
In other words, when you're in the business of building websites, does Drupal provide the kind of website (all aspects considered - features, usability, design...) that most users* want and exactly that, no more, no less?
I'd be curious to know what you all think about this.
(* By most users I mean the typical target of a web hosted service : associations, SMEs, professionals, maybe some "power" individuals, but not big companies.)










Comments
Drupal can be good business
Many of us here make our living doing various forms of Drupal consulting, and there are several companies that offer managed Drupal hosting (Bryght being the most hard-core Drupal, afaik). I don't find Drupal hard to sell at all, but then I'm only selling Drupal services, not hosting.
I guess it all depends on what you like to do. Are you more of a coding/designing type of guy? Do you like consulting with people and helping them solve their business needs? Or do you like hanging out in the server room patching Linux and compiling PHP?
As a 1 man team you might not want to try to be a "complete solution" provider, but rather find an aspect of Drupal that you really like and make yourself an expert in that realm.
- Robert Douglass
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My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
For example...
You could get a Bryght reseller account, still sell your "complete Drupal solution", and not have to worry about the server room.
- Robert Douglass
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My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
I've been thinking about that
Hehe, thanks for the advice Robert. I assume you have no connections or interests with the Bryght people whatsoever ;-) I seize the opportunity to congratulate you on your book, which will probably be the biggest role-player in my conversion to Drupal.
Re. my post above, I've been thinking about doing exactly what you suggest. I think resellers get a Bryght website for about $20 and can resell them around $40 (well, that's the price Bryce itself charges its end-users). As you say, that would enable me - as a 1 man team - to focus on a key aspect of Drupal and specialise in it. However, here are a few concerns that your suggestion raises :
1) My lack of expertise won't get better. If I rely on Bryght (or similar) to take care of the hosting, installing and configuring of Drupal, it's not going to help me become better ar Drupal. Even though I get your point (MY expertise = design, website building... or anything I'll choose --- BRYGHT's expertise = hosting + installing + configuring...), don't you think that going through all the phases yourself dramatically helps you improve your Drupal skills?
2) Communication. Bryght is in Canada and I am in France. What if I need to call them for an emergency and it's the middle of the night over there? Why not find a company in Europe then? (Too bad, because Bryght seems to be the best.) Unfortunately France doesn't have a lot to offer in terms of Drupal hosting (I did some Googling), and I would have to interact in English with most companies I can choose from. Although it's not a problem for me, it might be for my clients.
3) Cost. It dramatically cuts my profits to use Bryght's (or similar) services. I'm not aware of the pricing for similar offers, but $20 per month is the maximum that I would charge my clients (mainly SMEs and professionals) for their website, so how am I supposed to make a profit?
I'm just sharing some concerns that come to mind. But deep down inside, I agree with you : focusing on one area and finding a partner to take care of the rest is the way to go (and it's my job to figure out who, how much, etc.).
There are others
http://sympal.nl/wat
To point #1, I'll say that installing modules (one of the things that Bryght does for you) is not that hard, and you'll still have to do the heavy lifting. Plus you might want to create modules of your own, or actions and workflow to modify the way the installed modules work. Even just theming Drupal will make you an expert when you get into it deep enough.
To #2, check out the link above. That might be better for you, and also puts you in with a team of very well respected Drupal developers.
#3, I think you can resell many websites with the reseller license, but I'll let Boris explain that better (and no, I'm not affiliated with Bryght in any way except that I know most of the people involved personally).
And don't forget that when you speak of cost, one of the biggest costs is time. Servers take bunches of time (I spent all day fighting with one today!), so make sure and factor that in.
In the end, you'll figure out what you want to do, and what you do best, and you'll be a valuable Drupaller. Good luck!
- Robert Douglass
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My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
Thanks
Thank you for the link (I'll look into that) and valuable input.
Your charging model is wrong
Why the heck would you charge monthly? Your customer doesn't want to think about switching. Bundle it into a year.
A typical high quality theme is $1000 at least. Add to that consulting and training of at least another $1000. Bundle in hosting at $500 per year, maybe another $600 for 2 hours of direct support/consulting per year.
If you are going after a lower end market, they are probably better served by something like a page and/or business card type entry in a directory. Drupal's high search engine optimization along with the combination of entries will mean they show up higher. Use organic groups, give them a blog, and they can even post news updates to that section of the site.
Again, thanks for the
Again, thanks for the advice. I learn with each of your posts.
If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that I have one Drupal installation (ie. the fitness directory) and that I sell my clients (ie. the entries in the directory) a page/space where they can have a blog, post news updates, etc.
It seems fine to me as long as:
1) a client can customise his page (ie. have a page-specific theme, or at least have his own logo + color scheme)
2) a client can have www.mysite.com point to his page (I guess yes, with domain forwarding)
As for pricing, all hosted services (Basecamp, Blinksale, Typepad...) charge on a monthly basis, I don't see what is wrong with that. Besides, the price on http://www.bryght.com/pricing is a price per month too.
Finally, I'm not sure I understood your point about the price of a high-quality theme + consulting + hosting. If you're saying that taking care of all of that myself (instead of using a service provider) will have a cost, I couldn't agree more. I was not saying that Bryght is too expansive in the absolute, only that if I have to pay $20 for an additional site for each new entry/client in my directory, then I'd have to charge around $30-$40 to make a profit, which is beyond what this marget segment will spend.
We don't market to "users"
For the most part, we evangelize the Bryght solution to web designers, consultants, and the like -- there is no way we can actually build websites for the many different uses there.
Instead, we manage, maintain, and continue to improve a core framework for building many types of sites. If someone asks us for a theme or for a website, we direct them to one of our many resellers, who do the hard work of figuring out what the client needs, project managing the design and final configuration, etc.
So, while there are many developers who can install Drupal on a number of different hosting options, there are many more large numbers of people that don't want to or simply can't install Drupal, never mind maintain it, patch it, etc. We give the power of Drupal to people who might never otherwise be able to choose it, so they can skip the sysadmin part and focus on learning the administration of Drupal through a web interface as well as their core existing skills around web design.
Is Drupal hard to sell? Well, many end user clients simply don't care what software runs underneath. What they do want is a ton of features, from easy editing of their own content to forums, event calendars, and image galleries. Integrating and learning the interface of 3 or 4 different products is very difficult...with Drupal, they can have it all in one product. We found that while initially focusing only on community sites...lots of companies told us they still wanted a good solution to easily update and maintain their brochure-style corporate site.
Lastly, we are developing more end user focused bundles of Drupal functionality. The first one is Backstage, for bands and musicians. We still expect resellers to push a lot of these sites, since it adds another tool to their toolkit, but we hope that for some tech savvy independent bands, the system will be simple enough for them to learn.
Hope that helps, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
And Robert: thanks for all the kind words.
A few questions to Bryght
Hello Boris,
I'm really glad that I can speak with you directly. I found out about Bryght's website yesterday for the first time and I experienced some kind of epiphany: it was the materialisation of exactly what I wanted to do. ;-)
I hope you won't mind me continuing the discussion here in the forum (it might interest other readers). Please let me know if you think it'd be more appropriate to do this somewhere else.
Here's what I'd like to ask you:
My business model - once the site gets reasonable trafic - is to charge gyms, trainers etc. to have their website hosted on BonjourFitness (just being in the directory is free). I want them to be able to have their own domain name, a certain amout of storage (and bandwith?), and I would provide additional features specific to fitness websites (like a class schedule module).
I assume providing each of them with such a website means buying a Drupal installation for each of them. But there is no way I can charge each of them $20 per month... My point is I'd love to use your services but given the way I plan to do business, it's impossible (too expansive).
(Or maybe there is a way to create "subwebs" with their own domain names and characteristics on a single Drupal installation - in that case, pardon my ignorance but I still haven't figured that part out.)
Not hosting
Remember, we don't actually do traditional hosting at all. We run Drupal as a hosted service -- you interact with it only through the web browser and admin interface. We don't install Drupal at all -- it is completely automated by our mass hosting platform.
We don't currently charge for storage or bandwidth, but we will be working our terms of service that any "unreasonable" usage will be charged separately (or we'll work with you to move you to a managed virtual or dedicated system).
We currently run 4.6.x -- where X is the most recent release, plus a few forward compatible patches like feed length, RSS out for aggregator, aggregator filtering so images etc. can be displayed, and so on.
I don't have an ETA on 4.7 yet. We're part of the effort to fix bugs, as well as of course port all the various modules to 4.7. Generally, we won't be making this live as an option until 4.7 is quite stable.
On request, you can contact support to have additional modules installed. Right now, our requirements for this include that it must be available in Drupal CVS and tracked using the issue tracker etc. We also review the modules and only accept those that won't overly load our system or in any way cause issues.
Your business model doesn't seem to fit with our pricing model. As I posted separately, you might want to re-think that :P Running and maintaining 10s or 100s of Drupal sites is a lot of work, so you may end up spending more time than you think doing that.
One last question
OK, now I have a better understanding of the type of service provided by Bryght.
Now what if I have created a custom module and it's not in Drupal CVS? Is there any way I can have it installed on my Bryght website (provided it doesn't overly load the system or cause issues)?
It needs a way to be maintained
And surely you're not suggesting you don't want to open source the module?
At this time, our policy is that a module must be in Drupal CVS. This way we can track updates, security issues, etc. and update our local copy as needed. We *might* be willing to do this with a private code repository that we have access to, but we would definitely charge for this.
No pb
No, I wouldn't mind open-sourcing the module. In fact, I think it'd be best to do so.
which is the mayor difference indeed.
Indeed, as Boris points out correctly that focussing on end users is not Drupals strong points. He also states that Bryght focuses on the developers, resellers etc.
Sympal (thank you Robert for the kind words!) is indeed focussing on the end users. Primary. That is also the reason that you find everything in Dutch there. Drupal is really english-focussed. And while Joe User might be able to dig trough all the articles, Jan met de Pet (Dutch for Joe User) has a hard time there.
So we will indeed take you by the hand, and lead you trough your Drupal website. After we built it the way you wish, off course :).
So, in a nutshell, I would say that you, when you want to
resell Drupal, should indeed reconsider Bryght, because we (sympal) might be too specific for your wishes. Since we put so much effort in getting the best for every single Drupal site we host and develop, reselling is not really part of our model yet.
However, you can always ask, and we are open to any suggestion!.
Bèr
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Bèr Kessels
Professional www.webschuur.com
Personal bler.webschuur.com
End users or developers?
OK, so Sympal targets the end users and Bryght targets the developers/resellers.
Do you agree that you market Drupal differently to these 2 categories?
I suppose the end users don't really care what CMS powers their website in the sense that it's what they see and what they can do that counts, not the mechanics behind it (they want ease-of-use, this or that feature...). So Drupal is less prominent.
On the other hands, developers will focus on Drupal's "programmability" (APIs, code-flexiblity...), Drupal as a tool to build things, and probably also on the community behind it.
For a business selling Drupal services, which population do you think is the easiest to deal with: end users or developers?
That's an easy question!
Developers are always easier to deal with than end users. I'm not slamming anyone, but the hardest job in the world is instructing the end users on how to use their site. Imagine the job Ford, GM and DaimlerChrysler would have if there were no driving schools.
- Robert Douglass
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My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
indeed: driving schools!
That is a very well found word of what we try to achieve.
We think that the days of "2000.000 POP boxes free, 5gazillian megabyte of storage extra now, only for $1 per year' are over.
People want help. People want ready made solutions.
That is our aim. That is where we think Drupal is by far the best option. And no, indeed. end users do not really matters what runs their site. that is a big part of our philosophy indeed. But "just hiding the word Drupal" is not going to cut it.
Our believe is built on the idea "Drupal for developers, developers for the end users". The driving school indeed!
We do market it slightly different. But bryght is ready for end-users too!
In addition, I would like to add a third party: leafish. great drupal hosting, and development too.
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Professional | Personal
| Sympal: Development and Hosting
Not coding developers
If that makes sense. More web developers and consultants, who are looking for a platform that they can design/consult/sell around to various types of end users.
One web developer might focus on making low end Drupal powered web sites and build lots of them for small businesses.
Another consultant might decide to bundle lots of training and support and marketing services (in part what Sympal is doing, except Ber and the team are really excellent coding developers too, so they can do customizations).
So, we think of Bryght as a platform that lots of different people can build businesses around.
I see
What I had in mind in the beginning of this conversation was to sell ready-to-use websites to end users (much like what sympal does), but now I realise it might be easier (and more suitable to my situation) to provide useful resources and services to developers, maybe on top of other services provided by a company like Bright.
I think I'll start building a website with Drupal now. I only have had impressions of it so far (good impressions), but I still don't know what it really "tastes" like.
Thank you all for the advice.
Its been a year, so how did it go?
I just stumbled across this post and was wondering how your year went using Drupal as a CMS base.
Thanks
Also curious
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