Longing for a simple and fully working text editor

By AndrewE on 30 Jan 2005 at 07:36 UTC

I have spent quite some time getting used to the Drupal ways, and am still a novice in most aspects.
Some how I managed to put together a site that comes fairly close to what I originally wanted to build so thus far I am happy.
However the last real outstanding problem is text input.

At the moment I am using htmlarea module but users on my site are starting to complain that it doesn't format the text properly and that they haven't a clue how to insert images etc. Part of this is my fault for not explaining in more detail on my site about the software, but part of it is actually because modules like htmlarea are still incomplete and have browser compatibility issues and for the average user are just not basic enough.

What I would be interested to know is whether there are any simple wysiwyg text editor's in the pipelines and if so will they be able to deal with inserting images too?

Many thanks to forum members for reading,

FrancisQ

Comments

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robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 07:52

You can try FCKeditor[1] for Drupal or the quicktags[2] module, but I don't think either of them have image insertion.

My solution has always been that users are better off not editing their text. I turn the line break filter on so that the paragraphs can be seen. I install the url filter[3] so that people's URLs get parsed, and I install img_assist[4] which allows users to insert images that are found in the image galleries. I'm not claiming this is ideal, but the HTML Area is too heavy for me. It is brilliant programming, both the HTMLArea project itself and its integration into Drupal, but I don't like it.

If someone really wants to make something bold or italic, I teach them the html tags.

[1] http://drupal.org/node/16118
[2] http://drupal.org/node/13362
[3] http://drupal.org/project/urlfilter
[4] http://drupal.org/node/8750

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

Most appreciated R. Douglas

AndrewE commented 30 January 2005 at 07:57

Thanks very much for your kind response. I'll definately take those points into consideration.

I heard rumours of something called TinyMCE does anyone know if that is a text editor of some sort that works with Drupal?

The Green Room

TinyMCE

robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 08:14

http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/

Doesn't look much different than HTMLArea to me, just smaller (in terms of features). Note, you can turn off the buttons you don't want in HTMLArea, so if your goal is to get rid of some of the unwanted features, that is possible. Since I don't have HTMLArea installed at the moment you'll have to look for that yourself.

Don't be fooled by the image insert button for TinyMCE... that's easy. It takes the url of an image on some webserver and wraps it in an image tag. HTMLArea can do that too. TinyMCE could be integrated into Drupal if someone feels it necessary (unlikely), but it still doesn't solve the problem of getting user's images to the server and into their posts.

There are dozens of other Javascript editors that do just about the same thing, as well as a handful of Java Applets. The last time I did a thorough review of the field (about two years ago), HTML Area was by far the best in its field.

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

Fair enough

AndrewE commented 30 January 2005 at 08:48

I hear what your saying Robert. If the world only knew one type of browser I guess this text and format thing would be a whole lot easier.

All I really want, like most people is a simple easy solution - the quiet life as it were. At the moment formatting is just chaotic on my site. When I press enter to go down a line it jumps down 3!! If I try center an image they come out to the left and even if I don't choose it there is always an indent at the beginning of all paragraphs. It's a pretty interesting thing posting an entry on my site...all sorts of hidden magic at work!

Perhaps that is the reason that only two of the sites members (1 being myself) are actually posting anything!

I wanted to try the FCKEditor but when I installed the module from the CVS is just get a not found 101 message instead of the text box...

Frustrating indeed...

Anyway I'll keep a close lookout for any new developments in the wysiwyg area, one day there might be an answer.

The Green Room

Indents

robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 09:56

The indents at the beginning of your paragraphs are an undocumented feature of the theme you are using, not the editor.

http://www.andreweglinton.com/drupal/themes/box_grey/box_cleanslate/styl...

p, .book .body {
  padding: 0 0 0.5em 0;
  margin: 0;
  text-indent: 1.6em; // here's the culprit

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

Oh cool!

AndrewE commented 30 January 2005 at 10:25

I think that the option to change the indent should be included in the install text for the theme (box_cleanslate).

Thanks very much Robert you star!!!

1 down a few more to go...

The Green Room

One way I have solved the

carlmcdade commented 30 January 2005 at 10:02

One way I have solved the image insertion problem in advHTMLedit (IE only Dreamweaver MX plug in) is to use a PHP page rather that a HTML page in the image insertion popup. This lets me scan a particular folder give a finished list of available images and include a file upload in the popup. I have not done this with Drupal and HTMLarea yet but it works without fail. Even the most clueless user has no problem when given a droplist of images and the option of extending that list in a esy manner.
---------------------------
www.hivemindz.com (running PHP5)
www.fireorb.org (documentation and hacks)
__________________________
Carl McDade
Information Technology Consult
Team Macromedia

HTML Area can already do this

robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 10:22

http://www.heydon.com.au/?q=htmlareademo/ (click the image button).

The difference is that it scans the image nodes that have been created. At least with the HTML Area approach normal users can get their images to the server by creating an image node (this approach is also taken by img_assist and a couple other filter modules). If you were to just scan a server directory you could at best offer the same (user makes an image node, editor code scans the directory but isn't aware that the image is related to a node), and at worst either break the node integrity or only allow your users to insert images that you provide for them. Unless you want your users to have FTP access to your server.

One other alternative approach would be to use the inline module which allows users to write a short tag to 'inline' one of the uploads they've attached to the node.

- Robert Douglass

-----
www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

I really don't like node

carlmcdade commented 30 January 2005 at 19:33

I really don't like node association. A image is in reality a document and as such should have autonomy from the CMS. Using Drupal as a partial document management system create user and administration difficulties.

An example would be that I frequently want change an images but changing them means having to use the node creation process. The storage of images and paths to them via Fscache does not allow me to use FTP to see and manage the files. It is inconvenient and a usability no-no to force the user away from a natural flow.

Node creation is also an inconvenience when there is a high number of images. If I am making a post and have 15 images that need to be in that post then creating a node fo each one becomes a real hurdle. Most users would like to do a single upload of multiple images and have them available in the next step when using the online HTML editor.

Sharing of images also becomes a problem. frequently on a radio site the article writers share a directory of images. This would be very inconvenient if the list of images in the directory did not appear in the online HTML editor because no one could be bothered to use the uploader and create a node for each one.

---------------------------
www.hivemindz.com (running PHP5)
www.fireorb.org (documentation and hacks)
__________________________
Carl McDade
Information Technology Consult
Team Macromedia

Workflow problem

robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 19:51

You're describing workflow and useability problems, not problems that are inherent in the node system. I agree with you on all the points you mentioned, but it is important not to use those wishes/complaints as an argument against using the node system to track images. At some point you are going to want to have some information about the images in the database (who uploaded it? who can delete it?), issues that can't be resolved by assigning FTP access rights on a directory, and then images should be nodes.

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

Double space when you hit enter

AndrewE commented 30 January 2005 at 11:20

Did anyone find a cure for the htmlarea module problem of excessive line jumping when you press the enter key?

At the moment i'll tyoe a line of text and want to go to the line below so I press enter but it either jumps a whole block down or 2 lines.

Is there a cure for this?

Thanks alot.

FrancisQ

The Green Room

check the html

robertDouglass commented 30 January 2005 at 11:48

The difference, as far as I know, is that enter closes the current paragraph with and starts a new paragraph with . If you want a simple line break ( ), use shift-return. If the editor is inserting more than one p tag, it is a bug and needs to be reported. It is possible that the styles look somewhat different in the editor than they do on the page later.

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com

Robert

AndrewE commented 30 January 2005 at 23:44

I noticed that you visited my site and did a test on the html editor. Did you come to any conclusions at all?

Thanks

FrancisQ

The Green Room

Yeah, hope you erased my post :-)

robertDouglass commented 31 January 2005 at 07:00

I was in the process of adding a comment with my conclusions when Firefox crashed. Anyway, the short version is, I think it works great. There is an extra being inserted upon hitting return - this is a bug. I didn't look to see if there are issues/patches posted for it. I was particularly impressed that my 200 row table didn't break the node teaser, but I suspect that this got fixed in Drupal core when I wasn't looking.

There weren't any images available for insertion so I used a www url. The workflow concerns about having to upload images prior to using them in a post still apply, but the HTMLArea tool itself seems to be much more mature than last time I looked.

- Robert Douglass

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www.robshouse.net
www.webs4.com