By tvn on

UPDATE:
Terms of Service are now finalized and located at https://www.drupal.org/terms.
Privacy Policy is now finalized and located at https://www.drupal.org/privacy

Thanks to the hard work of staff and the Drupal.org Content Working Group, we have completed another round of updates to our draft privacy policy and terms of service. We were able to respond to much of the feedback provided in our earlier announcement.

The biggest issues pointed out by the community had to do with the tone of the language in the documents. Many pointed out that it did not match the values of our community. We took a closer look at organizations such as the Wikimedia Foundation and Mozilla, incorporating some of the approaches they took to make our terms a bit more human. We trimmed and shortened what we could. We clarified where things were ambiguous. The end result is much more in line with our community values.

Some examples of changes include the following:

  • When possible, we changed the tone of both documents to make them more friendly.
  • We removed capital letters and used other means to make specific parts of the document noticeable.
  • We deleted a couple of references to collecting data that we do not actually collect.
  • We clarified that we won’t block accounts “for any and no reason”, but only in cases of Terms of Service, Code of Conduct and Git access policy violations.
  • We clarified active notification of users about material changes to policy. We will send an email at least 72 hours prior to changes going into effect. This will give users time to delete their accounts if they don’t want to accept new policies.
  • We added contact info and updated all phone numbers, addresses etc. to be formatted according to international standards.
  • We clarified that you don’t need to create an account to access the Website, just some parts of it.
  • We clarified how to notify us in case of unauthorized access to user account.
  • We clarified how long do we store data after it has been removed from user profile.

We did leave some things from the previous draft without major changes, such as bullet points under section C, for example. And we did it for a reason. One of our goals is to make Drupal.org a place where everyone feels comfortable. Additionally, we have to ensure that Drupal.org is protected if a legal issue does arise. Those bullet points are there not because we want to be able to police or censor the activity on the site. This language exists because it protects Drupal.org if one user takes issue with content from another user. We will still use the process outlined in the Drupal Code of Conduct to resolve any issues whenever we can.

With that in mind, please take a look at the latest drafts:

Terms of Service
Privacy Policy

We will be putting these documents into place on Wednesday, 5 November, 2014. All comments added to this thread will be included in our planning for the next revision. We hope to review the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy quarterly and update them with community feedback.

Thank you for all your help in building these documents.

Comments

gaele’s picture

gaele commented

Wow, that's quite a difference from the earlier versions. Thank you.

chx’s picture

chx commented

I am so tired of fighting. So read this in a tired, resigned voice:

"The content you publish will not contain any material which is defamatory, obscene, indecent, abusive, offensive, harassing, violent, hateful, inflammatory or otherwise objectionable." -- offensive or objectionable. Great.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

jaypan’s picture

jaypan
Location Victoria, BC
commented

I am so tired of fighting. So read this in a tired, resigned voice:

Or you could try to find a way to say it in a palatable manner for everyone, removing the need to fight, and instead collaborate.

Thanks to the team for taking in the feedback from everyone, and putting in a lot of work to try to come up with a solution that balances the needs/rights/requirements of users, with the goals to be met in producing this document.

Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
Or anything really. I'm friendly, and open to work or conversation.

holly.ross.drupal’s picture

holly.ross.drupal commented

We did leave some things from the previous draft without major changes, such as bullet points under section C, for example. And we did it for a reason. One of our goals is to make Drupal.org a place where everyone feels comfortable. Additionally, we have to ensure that Drupal.org is protected if a legal issue does arise. Those bullet points are there not because we want to be able to police or censor the activity on the site. This language exists because it protects Drupal.org if one user takes issue with content from another user. We will still use the process outlined in the Drupal Code of Conduct to resolve any issues whenever we can.

chx’s picture

chx commented

Accounts not following the guidelines listed above will be blocked.

Suggestion

Accounts not following the guidelines listed above may be blocked.

Since you already have

Exercise our enforcement discretion with respect to the above terms.

this does not seem like such a huge change.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

xano’s picture

xano
he/they
Primary language English
Location Southampton
commented

As much I understand the need to make people feel comfortable, I would like to reference Steve Hughes in the hopes that we won't overreact when someone takes issue with another user's content. There is a line between being offended and knowingly publishing harmful content, a line that is not the same across cultures.

chx’s picture

chx commented

> we won't overreact when someone takes issue with another user's content.

The current ToS leaves no wiggling room. Accounts not following the guidelines listed above will be blocked. That's my problem. And, if you think we won't keep this -- which I think so too -- then let me remind you that enacting laws that noone expects to be kept just weakens the rule of the law.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

Pierre.Vriens’s picture

Pierre.Vriens commented

English is NOT the language I learned on my mother's knee, so sorry if this is a silly (hopefully not "stupid" ...) question, but could anybody rephrase that "tired, resigned" to regular English please? Or Dutch, French or German? FYI: "voice" I (think I) understand ...

Am I the only non-native-English-speaking Drupalist who has a problem to understand the real meaning of these words?

PS: Same for 'defamatory', or am I really assumed to go grab a dictionary to understand it?

You don't need eyes to see, you need vision ...

gabesullice’s picture

gabesullice
Primary language English
commented

Il indiqué qu'il est fatigue avec le discussion de la texte en quote. Alors, quand tu lis son message, il faut que tu affect un voix fatigue et résignée.

chx’s picture

chx commented

Two years ago was the disaster called DrupalCon Code of Conduct original draft https://groups.drupal.org/node/232633 I feel like constantly fighting since to get the "we are an international community and American sensibilities and expectations are as weird to us as ours to you". Then, like a miracle DrupalCon Code of Conduct did become great. And now two years later (=tired), back to square one and this time the revised draft still includes a lot of this and it is announced that this draft will become policy and what can I do? I can a) leave drupal.org b) accept it. According to the dictionary resigned means: having accepted something unpleasant that one cannot do anything about. Exactly.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

nerdcore’s picture

nerdcore commented

Nothing offensive or objectionable. I agree chx, this is great.

I don't see why the Drupal community should allow offensive or objectionable content to be posted without any recourse for those who feel offended.

Thanks for pointing this great text out, chx.

tr’s picture

tr commented

I don't see any reference to Google Analytics user tracking in the Privacy Policy. Shouldn't this, and the already-available opt-out checkbox, be mentioned somewhere?

<tr>.
tvn’s picture

tvn commented

Thanks for pointing this out. We'll definitely add something in the next revision of Privacy Policy (should happen in a couple of months). For now I added this to a standing doc, where we collect suggestions for the next revision.

micromegas’s picture

micromegas commented

5. Arbitration. All disputes (whether in contract, tort or otherwise, whether statutory, common law or equitable and whether pre-existing, present or future) against the Association, its agents, employees, affiliates, successors and assigns (collectively, the "Association Affiliates"), relating to these Terms or any aspect of the Website will be resolved by binding arbitration administered by the Arbitration Service of Portland, Inc.

So, by agreeing to these terms and conditions, do I give up my right to a fair trial, and instead put my theoretical fate in the hands of a 3rd party company in Portland?

I've checked other community sites such as wordpress.org, nodejs.org/community, github.com, and mozilla.org, and none of them had such a clause. I was wondering what the purpose of this clause is, and why such a clause is necessary for drupal.org?

holly.ross.drupal’s picture

holly.ross.drupal commented

The terms of service exists to serve several purposes. One of those purposes is to establish guidelines so that everyone that uses the site can do so safely and comfortably. Another purpose is to mitigate any legal and financial risk to the Association, as the organization responsible for Drupal.org. We've worked really hard on the terms of service to ensure that they are not overly protective of the Association at the expense of individual users. There is a lot of language we struck so that what is documented is fair and human-readble.

This section is one that definitely came out of our work with our lawyer. They felt strongly that arbitration protects the Association quite a bit from the costs associated with a trial. Generally speaking, it is not the outcome of any trial that hobbles an organization, it is the costs of going to trial that can bankrupt and organization, especially a small organization like us.

So that's the purpose. We ARE keeping a list of concerns and ongoing suggestions for future revisions and we'll add this to the list. I hope it's understandable.

anarcat’s picture

anarcat commented

We may disclose information we collect from or about you when we believe disclosure is appropriate to comply with the law, to enforce agreements, or to protect the rights, property, or safety of users of this Website, the Association, or other persons or organizations.

This is unfortunate. This removes any leverage that the Association may have in responding to arbitrary disclosure requests from random officials, and shifts the burden on proof on the association. If there's a subpoena or a court order to disclose information about a user, that's one thing, but the above goes much further, it gives the association the right to divulge information if it *believes* disclosure is appropriate. That gives it basically a blank check and removes any leverage it might have in face of abusive complaints.