We are pleased to announce that the first Drupal 4.7 beta release is available. It is available for immediate download at http://drupal.org/files/projects/drupal-4.7.0-beta1.tar.gz.

This beta release marks an important step towards the final Drupal 4.7.0 release, which hopefully will be released in 4-6 weeks. Drupal 4.7.0 will be our most exciting release to date, with some cool new features and many under the hood improvements. Some enhancements include; free tagging, contact form functionality, easier menu management, a better default theme engine (PHPTemplate), improved search functionality, theme-specific block regions, improved PostgreSQL support, themeable forms, a better upgrade script, better revisions handling and much more.

At the same time Drupal 4.7.0 will be a tad smaller (better code re-use, the queue module and comment moderation moved to the contributions repository) and a tad faster. Finally, to liven up your various Web 2.0 dreams, we sprinkled the code with AJAX in an attempt to simplify some administrative tasks. (Yes, it should degrade gracefully.)

Please enjoy this beta and help us work out the remaining glitches. Karoly (chx) wrote in that he is taking steps to award prizes to those who report the most bugs between this announcement and the final Drupal 4.7 release. More information about that to follow. In the meantime, if you have incredible talents at breaking Drupal, make sure to report bugs using the bug tracker. If you have talents with fixing Drupal feel free to supply patches. Even if you don't know if that's the best solution, supply it anyway as it may be the starting point someone else needs.

For instructions on installing or upgrading Drupal, please consult INSTALL.txt or UPGRADE.txt respectively, as well as the documentation available in the handbook. You can use the development module to quickly populate an empty database, or you can upgrade an existing Drupal 4.6 database. As with everything still in development, take precautions with your data.

Bear in mind that custom or contributed themes and modules for Drupal 4.6 need to be updated to work with Drupal 4.7. Module developers are encouraged to update their modules(some tools available, theme developers to update their themes, and translators to update their translations.

See you in the bug tracker or the patch queue. Thanks!

Comments

Andrzej7’s picture

I'm happy to read! Startung the use immidiately

Lupin3rd’s picture

Thanks a lot for this new release!

---
Visita drupal.it, la comunità italiana di Drupal.

Gonçalo Dumas’s picture

...for mankind.

rkendall’s picture

A while ago there had been a lot of talk about having custom content types integrated into the core - with functionality similar to flexinode.

I thought this was work for 4.7, but didn't see a hint of it in the announcement.

Does anyone know about this?

Morbus Iff’s picture

Flexinode has been ported to 4.7 already. CCK will be a third party module first.

http://disobey.com/
http://gamegrene.com/

robertDouglass’s picture

Some of the major changes made in 4.7 (forms API, for example) were done with an eye on supporting the CCK. Some important work has been done on it recently, and both of the modules main authors have indicated that they will have more time to work on it in the new year.

In the meantime, flexinode has been updated to 4.7 (I'm not sure about the contrib field types, I think they still need updating), so flexinode will be with us for some time yet.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My sites: HornRoller.com, RobsHouse.net

my Drupal book | Twitter | Director, Product Operations Commerce Guys

jo1ene’s picture

My nose is tingling... I am going to start testing right away. I've been putting off a big project waiting for this.

Advanced Web Design

Patrick Nelson’s picture

It's like Christmas has come early!!!

Many thanks for this release and a big thank you to all of those who I know have put in a lot of effort to get to this point. I take my hat off to you all.

Regards

Patrick

spazio’s picture

I was following the development of Drupal 4.7 in recent weeks and I am excited about the new features implemented!

Will check out 4.7 beta immediately!

Big thanks to all contributors!

Ciao and all the best from Berlin!

Mario

www.perspektive89.com

Shane Birley’s picture

This software rocks! Thanks to everyone for helping out!

-
Shane Birley
Vicious Bunny Creative
http://www.vbcreative.com

---
Shane Birley
Left Right Minds
http://www.leftrightminds.com

Thorsten’s picture

I could only agree: Thanks for the great new release!
I was especially waiting for this one to get my project started.
I'm starting testing right away, too.
Does anyone have an idea which themes/modules have (for the most part) finished updating and should work? I drew the HEAD version off the CVS once and got strange behaviour activating even themes recently updated ...
Salutations to the great drupal people!

budda’s picture

Check the module downloads page for 4.7 compatible stuff.

http://drupal.org/project/Modules/4.7

--
www.bargainspy.co.uk | More Drupal modules

Abilnet’s picture

A big thanks also from Spain to all hardworking developers for your Great Work! ...rushing to test the new release right now!

wwicko’s picture

I began with 4.6 and have not been through an upgrade. I'm excited about 4.7, and a little nervous about the upgrade process, so I want to get some practice upgrading, and most all see what's new in 4.7! Here's my first Drupal stumper.

On the download pages I see two new options:

4.7.0-beta.x

and

4.7.x

What distinguishes these options?

robertDouglass’s picture

It looks like they both link to the same tarball.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My sites: HornRoller.com, RobsHouse.net

my Drupal book | Twitter | Director, Product Operations Commerce Guys

pamphile’s picture

Congradulations on this launch

Marcel
http://businessletters.com - Drupalizing and seeking writers/bloggers - contact me.
http://www.mxcounters.com - Detailed website counter

Will White’s picture

I love how this release has more features and an even smaller file size!

cre8d’s picture

Awesome! Thanks guys, I have downloaded and will start using it now :)

stmind’s picture

I can't wait to get it going. I have not seen the new stuff in cvs yet, been waiting for a packaged beta.

Woot!

pennywit’s picture

Looks great ... I like it so far. I particularly like the availability of several block regions. I'm curious, though. Is there a place where I can control where the block regions are, to add more block display regions, or similar?

--|PW|--

Michelle’s picture

The docs are here: http://drupal.org/node/29140

Michelle

Wyld’s picture

Have the permissions on taxonomy been expanding as part of core code; ie: can I assign a group of forums specific to a group of users (like the moderators and admins having their own section)?

--
Wyld :: Weaving the Web since 1492

SimonVlc’s picture

I´ve just upgraded one test site in no more than 5 minutes. All works fine and I´m searching the new features. Where is Ajax??? :P.

Great job men!

robertDouglass’s picture

In the node form, check out the Authored by field. Try changing the author's name to that of another user on the site.

Or, better, make yourself a free-tagging vocabulary. When you go to tag a node it autocompletes suggestions for you.

Then, try attaching files to nodes using the upload feature. Instead of causing a page refresh, it does the file upload with AJAX.

Most importantly, the AJAX library that Drupal ships with (misc/drupal.js and misc/autocomplete.js, plus some functions in common.inc) is solid and rich enough to build other AJAX applications upon.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My sites: HornRoller.com, RobsHouse.net

my Drupal book | Twitter | Director, Product Operations Commerce Guys

holz’s picture

I make a test site weeks ago using drupal-cvs.

few minutes ago, I upload the 4.7 beta1 to override the old files, and run update.php.

the Problem is I see no selection in the version selection, so I can NOT update the site. and when i browser my site I see nothing but the nav.

You can check http://holz.byethost15.com

MarcoZ’s picture

Hi guys,

I am currently in the process of learning Drupal on an Apache web server on my localmachine. I run the latest XAMPP distribution for MS Windows found at www.apachefriends.org.

The update process, however, gives me some trouble. Here's what I do:

  1. With the old site still in place, and after backing up the database, I log on with the user ID 1.
  2. I leave the browser window open, rename my Drupal 4.6.4 directory and rename the 4.7 beta directory to have the name of my original drupal site. Note that I have already configured the Default site's settings.php file properly
  3. I then go back to my browser and go to http://localhost/update.php.
  4. I am presented with a welcome page which has a "Run database upgrade" link.
  5. I activate that link, and am presented with the screen that tells me that my Drupal version has been automatically detected. I expand the Select Version to see which version is selected, and in the combo, it shows 129.
  6. I then click "Update". Nothing happens, except that I am returned to the starting site from two steps above

No matter what I try, whether I activate with the mouse, or the keyboard, I am always returned to the initial welcome page.

What's wrong?

Thanks,
Marco

chx’s picture

You posted this as a comment instead of the bug tracker.
--
Read my developer blog on Drupal4hu. | The news is Now Public

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

tommi’s picture

I've been very happy with Drupal ever since I started using it with 4.5.x releases except for the image support. It really doesn't work well. I read somewhere that the image support has been redone and that's good, but it doesn't show. 4.7.0 beta1 doesn't ship with ability to include inline image and I don't understand why. Isn't use of image a popular feature? Will the image system be improved soon?

Thanks for all of your efforts,
T

xand’s picture

oooh. happinesssss. :)

Will start working on it now!! :D

Felix2k’s picture

Is this beta develop enough, so that you can make a public site with it?
Because i start with a new page, and the new futures of the 4.7 version are great. So maybe someone can tell me, if you can work with this beta. thanks

(and sorry for my bad englisch, I'm from germany)

enthusaroo’s picture

I've installed the beta and I'm working with it right now.

Share your Love Across Borders

Dries’s picture

A list of all bug reports filed against Drupal 4.7 beta1 is available at http://drupal.org/project/issues?projects=3060&versions=9728&states=1,8,....
To follow up on your bug reports, use http://drupal.org/project/issues/user (requires authentication). It might be handy to bookmark these URLs.

capmex’s picture

I have been following very closely the development mailing list. It's good to know about all the efforts towards optimization you've taken. I will be testing this release on a new site.

Thanks for your hard work!
--
Webmaster Resources | Canadian Directory

multiplex’s picture

I was just going through some major site changes for the new year, seems like the perfect time to upgrade to 4.7 as well.

Thx guys!

--- MultipleX
www.hambastegimeli.com
Don't click this link if you don't know Farsi!

iraszl’s picture

You guys rock!
---
http://raszl.net

Zethris1’s picture

There are a few things that needs to addressed, and added to the packaged core so that it will encourage more people to use it. The currently packaged items are great. But with a growing number of web logs and content, also comes a growing number of spam and fake accounts. What needs to happen is a captcha type feature needs to be put in the core system included in the package to be able to control sign up's and also authorize anonymous comments by people with a captcha that they have to fill in before they post their comments. Also measures to prevent trackback spam needs to be put in.

The other thing I notice is that the taxonomy is still a mess to work with and look through to classify stories and books, etc. I propose that instead of scrolling boxes exclusively, you should be able to select what kind of form you want, radio list fo rthose who want it classified under one topic but don't mind a large list of items in a large paragraph looking format. Or a check box for those who allow more topics to be selected and for those who may have subcategories also in large paragraph list format.

But mostly I would like to see added is a group of drag down boxes that list the items you can select (each item being a main topic, with it's terms listed below it) and using ajax will automatically apend what you select to the classification of the story on top so it will allow multiple classifications and look clean.

Currently it's hard to get people to sign up and want to post their articles and web logs because I have a lsit of over 100 terms they have to scroll down through, and it takes too long to even get to the node body to type content.

I would really lke to see the drupal code become slightly more user friendly and intuitive for those that aren't the actuall drupal Administrator.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

Zethris1’s picture

I forgot to mention the other things. To improve the versatilaty of drupal, I propose also packaging an inline image system withing the core and css like the one in the modules, except you can not only select the uploaded file image and also the orientation in the node/page/book/ etc. by just typing in the [inline:1] command, but you can select it's page float oreintation with an added field [inline:1:left] to tell it to float left [inline:1:center] float center [inline:1:right] to float right.

On a side, allow us to change wheter or not the atachments are shown to the users or not individually on the node. So it doesn't look tacky to have to have public files and the attachment is just the image on the inline. In fact, it would be nice to fully customize what is shown at the bottom of a node where the trackback info can be and the comment box, etc. Right now it looks like a mess. It really needs to be cleaned up to improve easy of use to the layman.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

Bèr Kessels’s picture

Well I thing you must, should be or at least would like to see you, adding real stuff. Patches, documents feature requests, manage a distribution or whatever.

I am not stating that what you post is not feasible, nor that its a bad post. I am saying this is completely the wrong place to post this.

Oh, and the wrong time! a freeze/release candidate means *no more features are let in or out*
---
Bèr Kessels
Professional www.webschuur.com
Personal bler.webschuur.com

Zethris1’s picture

These are features that should already be in there. it's at version 4.7 already. Besides, RC's always have things added or taken away, thats why it's not the actuall release. It's just a candidate.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

sepeck’s picture

Thank you for joining the Drupal community. You will find that there is a lot of activity and fairly low barrier to participating.

However, there are also rules and customs and you may be confusing how other projects you have been involved with operate and how the Drupal community operates.

If the development verison called 'HEAD' reaches a Beta, RC or freeze status (determined by Dries and announced on the mail list and usually in the forums), then it's done with adding features. Period. So, no more toys, no more this would be neat... no it is pretty much feature frozen at that point and efforts to bug hunt, finese and fine tune are pretty much what gets done. (There was a significant delay in the freeze from the inital announcement this time due to several major long term projects that were are close to completion that had significant usability enhancements).

Once 4.7 is branched and released, then the HEAD development branch will be opened up for 'neat' things submission for 4.8.

Why are feature not in that 'should' be in. Well, says who? There is no 'should' or 'have to' here. There is 'did you submit patches' for what 'you' wanted in there? If you didn't then to late now for 4.7.

Some of your features that you mentioned also quite frankly do not in any way belong in core. They belong in contrib. They are there if people want them. Is there room for UI improvement still? You bet, please sign up for the development list and participate towards it in 4.8. Code, testing, GUI mockups are all welcome. Many of these areas are discussed already and some merely await someone with time and interest to contribute actual work.

If it's not in, then that means someone who throught they needed it didn't bother to contribute it or the implementation they wanted didn't get implemented for whatever reason.

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

Zethris1’s picture

Beta comes BEFORE RC, and allows for things to be added or taken away. No freezes happen until Release Candidate 1.

My fears about this project are slowly becoming reality in that this CMS under it's current line of thinking, as you describe it, can not ever grow beyone more than it already is in terms of medium to large business ever using this software.

In order to reach the next level, there has to be some fundamental changes to the way this software is being developed in this open source community, and also the lines of thinking of things that SHOULD be in the CORE of the Drupal CMS, meaning configurable functions such as inline photos for reader eye candy, or Captchas for security and spam prevention. These are things any other CMS worth a darn would already have built in. While drupal has potential, unless it integrates things such as the two I mentioned, within it's core, if not as a packaged default module that is enabled by default, it can never compete with any of the other CMS systems out there.

Not everyone who will eventually use this will have PHP programming experience. The reason why other CMS' are so sucessful is because of the fact that functionality and ease of use is not 100th on the list of things to do. Most projects couldn't last that long with priorities that bad.

I have been around here for about 6 months, so I am not all that new. But it's starting to look like Drupal is close, but not close enough. That would be unfortunate, unless some major reform occurse asap.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

styro’s picture

In order to fit industry standards, they must be followed. Beta comes BEFORE RC, and allows for things to be added or taken away. No freezes happen until Release Candidate 1.

Since when does BETA come before feature freeze? Oh that's right, since MS decided their software took too long to develop and they needed to release extra early versions so that people didn't forget about their upcoming products. MS betas aren't 'industry satndard' betas - they are preview releases and more of a marketing exercise than a serious beta testing round.

BETA has traditionally meant 'feature complete, first public release for wider testing'. RCs were for releases you thought were good enough to release as is (hence the words 'release candidate') but wanted a final test to confirm that.

While drupal has potential, unless it integrates things such as the two I mentioned, within it's core, if not as a packaged default module that is enabled by default, it can never compete with any of the other CMS systems out there.

You've listed two things you want in core. If we asked all Drupal users what two things they wanted in core, there'd be two thousand things to add in to core. And core would no longer be core would it?

Drupal is not trying to be all things to all people. As far as I can tell, it aims to be a powerful flexible system based around a small tight core that can easily be adapted to do nearly anything.

Drupal isn't strictly competing with other CMSs. Drupal is moving in the direction those that work on it want to take it. It is open source - there is no product manager defining what it must and must not do to keep the customers happy and then ordering a team of developers to make it. The developers are the customers. And the other open source CMSs aren't trying to compete with Drupal either - they are going in the direction their developers want to take them. It's all good - with open source its also important to pick the project that is going in the direction you want to go.

If you don't like Drupals direction, you have two choices: start participating in the development, or find a project that is going where you want it.

--
Anton

Dries’s picture

Drupal is not a finished product. We continue to improve Drupal, and would like you to participate in its development. Clearly, you have some good ideas so cook up some patches, and we'll try to include them in Drupal 4.8.

Zethris1’s picture

I might propose a community patch for development and project focus first rather than a patch for the drupal CMS, based on the general lines of thinking I have seen by the active contirbutors.

Modules, while good idealy and great for added features later, become a crutch for features and things that would be much more efficient if it was built into the drupal CMS by taking a moment and logically thinking of the things that would most likely be used and building them in. Such as the captcha type feature to control robot submissions and spam.

In order to break out, which drupal has great potential for doing so, a bit of a revolution in the way of thinking needs to be made. Otherwise it may just fade away like all the other CMS's out there. By design, drupal is much more flexible, and in general looks better on areas that many other CMS's lack. But there is a reason why not all websites are wanting to jump to the Drupal CMS. It lacks the key things that the general public want/need by a public relations standpoint to both users and moderators of a website that might be using drupal for it's CMS.

If this project is supposed to be some sort of "best kept secret" I would say thats very unfortunate. So I hope that isn't the case. However, drupal has it's own terminology, and aparently it's own development process too, further and further alienating yourselves from the big time.

I sure hope 4.8 doesn't take 6 months or more to come out with what I hope to be more main stream features a production quality CMS would have for a mission critical application. Too much is happening, and drupal may not have that much time to stay ahead of the market.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

Dries’s picture

It is a known fact that I want to add support for inline images to core. I've stated that several times and we have been actively discussing this. Effort is being put into this but it takes time and resources.

Zethris1’s picture

Unfortunatly, even with how many hours I have speant reading everything I can on it, sifting through module after module, Looking through forum posts since the dawn of time, I never came upon this known fact. That kind of might be a sign that even someone like me, while not super knowlagable with things in comparison to you, yet still pretty capable; I was not able to find that, that was an intention of yours.

Now I know.

I know that development takes much time and resources. I do programming on the side myself too in other things. But based on all that I could read, it seemed to be a repeating theme that you and the other main devs wanted to keep the drupal core very sterile and void of basic features to be totaly reliant upon modules for anything extra.

While you didn't say this exactly yourselves, it just seemed that way with what I read and how responses to others posts were by members of the community as if they reflected your intentions. SO I apologize if I was mislead.

I really do apreciate you and the drupal project. I honestly believe this CMS has great potential. Far beyond the current status quo of Content Management out there now. I do love how flexible the moduling system is too. I hear talk that someone is going to make drupal into an RPG. Thats amazing. I can't wait to see that. Try doing that with wordpress. lol, not a chance!

Keep up the good work, know you have at least one more person who cares deeply about the drupal project here. I will try to do what I can, when I can for the project. If even that just means voicing my experience in between techno geek land and lamer land. But most likely, as soon as i have time, it will also mean some modules i am planning out right now. What I have in mind will take a lot of time indeed.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

styro’s picture

I suggest you follow the dev mailing list. You will get a better idea of what future things are being planned, who works on what and what their design considerations are.

You will also get a better idea of why things can't just happen, and how much thought and planning really goes into all these decisions.

These development discussions don't happen on the drupal.org forums - they are more for support questions and community stuff.

--
Anton

sepeck’s picture

Detailed discussions do happen on Drupal.org in the project issue tracker so there is history and evolution.

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

alexis’s picture

I've been working with HEAD from CVS during the last weeks for my soon to be launched redesign and it's great to see that maybe 4.7 will be ready by the same date.

Keep the great work, I'll do my best to post as many bugs as possible.

Cheers!

Alexis Bellido - Ventanazul web solutions

clo75’s picture

I installed the 4.7 beta version... great works, specially forv the menu management...

But the upload module doesn't work... The files folder remains empty.

Another concern, the insertion of image inside the poste, for exemples the blog post

- images module 4.6 crash with activation of this module
- images assist module go OK with the installation but crash when I attempt to go to the settings feature.

So does anybody know a simple way to put images with drupal 4.7 until this images modules will work ??

I follow the advice of Zetris, there is one big missing part with the stantard installation, a good tool for inserting images.

kbahey’s picture

Installing modules from an older version to a newer one is always asking for trouble.

For 4.7, the forms were completely redone, so modules will not work unless it is explicitly 4.7 ready.
--
Drupal development and customization: 2bits.com
Personal: Baheyeldin.com

--
Drupal performance tuning and optimization, hosting, development, and consulting: 2bits.com, Inc. and Twitter at: @2bits
Personal blog: Ba

pennywit’s picture

I can think of a couple things:

1) Flexinode seems to have an image handler of some sort.

2) If you just need inline images, pop them up to your server and then slap in the HTML in the relevant nodes.

--|PW|--

radiobuzzer’s picture

Both "Release" links from drupal Front page lead to this beta version. Even the one that is label 4.6.4!!! Is it safe to lead all users to download the beta?

Dries’s picture

Fixed it. Thanks for pointing this out.

griffinn’s picture

Apart from those modules already listed under http://drupal.org/project/Modules/4.7, it would be nice to know which modules in cvs have been updated to work with 4.7.0.

I've tried the cvs Event module and it works like a charm.

StingRay427’s picture

In addition i18n module doesn't work.
Strange, the earlier version CVS of this module worked with 4.7 CVS, but on 3. December patches provided by this module were removed (because it was said, no more need in them). Anyway since that time I can't get get running 4.7 with i18n and can't test with older version of i18n module, because I have none anymore (deleted).

I could think, it's hard to say what modules work and what not, bcz they might work @ the moment, but few days later not, depending on the version.

freeraluy’s picture

Really good news, I was waiting for a long time this release.

Thanks!

alengua’s picture

Will it include some of the features of this module "Taxonomy Access Control" or we will need to wait for an update from its author to get ACL features...

Bèr Kessels’s picture

... so no more modules, features go in or out anymore. Indeed, you will have to wait for the contrib.

---

Bèr Kessels
Professional www.webschuur.com
Personal bler.webschuur.com

Zethris1’s picture

Thats just too bad you and/or the dev's would limit themselves in that way. How many months until 4.8 when it would have these features to make drupal actually usable in a mission critical environment?

It would be very easy to just add these things into the 4.7, have a few extra RC's and then release a more functional CMS.

And one thing I noticed, RC should come after beta. THis is still beta 1 then, as per the topic name. RC suggest that is it in a relese code candidate form. Beta very much means that things can be added or changed as needed.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

chx’s picture

Taxonomy access does not belong to the core. Period. We enhanced Drupal 4.7 enough that TAC can run without patching.
--
Read my developer blog on Drupal4hu. | The news is Now Public

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

Zethris1’s picture

But that fact that once drupal is in beta, no changes can be made. Beta is a test. Tests fail and succeed. Requiring things to be added or taken away fixed and changed until a stable and proven code base is made. Then Release code is proposed in a Release Candidate version. SOmetimes even that can go through 5 or 6 Release Candidates because of fixes and changes and security checks/fixes, etc.

But from many, not specificaly the core dev's, I have been getting the attitude that once something leaves HEAD from the CVS, (which not many people in the general public/business executive looking for a CMS will know much about.) That for some reason everything is frozen.

in regards to what I was talking about being added to the core, captcha and inline imaging, I tried to describe the situation that these are not just features, but critical additions 1. The captcha feature will help block what many CMS searchers would look for first, will there be a way to block spam out of the box? Drupal, no. So drupal is passed up for something else because the business executive doesn't have hours to make a CMS choice by reading page after page of forum and module and CVS submissions. 2. it is a proven fact that having a picture within an article, and/or as a part of the header looks and feels more professional and more pleasing to the eye and emotionaly peaks interest. A picture is worth a thousand words. And those thousand words could mean a lot for a business who is looking for a CMS but has to work around a hacky module that doesn't work into trackbacks very well and just isn't very good.

THese were also meant as just two examples. There could be more. It's been said drupal is not a finished product. While thats strange being about to be version 4.7, Open source projects are rarely ever really done. Drupal needs a different kind of growth right now. One that focuses on main stream features, that to save server resources, are built in. After that, then it will be noticed very much by the industries that count and drupal will finally make it to the big time.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

Dries’s picture

No, you're wrong. What you call beta releases are alpha or pre-alpha releases. What you call release candidates are beta releases.

Wikipedia has this to say about the various development stages:

Some development teams use the term alpha informally to denote an early, unstable build of the software that lacks features promised in the final release, but demonstrates the feasibility and basic structure of the software.

Often the beta stage begins when the developers announce a feature freeze on the product, indicating that no more features will be added to this version of the product and only software issues, or bugs, will be removed.

When a beta becomes available to the general public it is often widely used by the technologically savvy and those familiar with previous versions as though it were the finished product.

The term release candidate refers to a final product, ready to release unless fatal bugs emerge. In this stage, the product features all designed functionalities and no known showstopper class bugs.

Saying that captcha and inline image support are critical features is entirely subjective. What is important for you is not necessarily important for someone else. I know enough people that don't care about either captcha or inline images. (That said, I'd like to see inline image support in Drupal 4.8.)

We've been working really hard on 4.7.0. Despite the fact that Drupal 4.7.0 will be our most exciting release to date, there are many aspects of Drupal that have room for improvement. Unfortunately we don't have unlimited resources which means that some functionality will not be part of Drupal 4.7. There is no such thing as a finished product either, so don't put these words in our mouths. We're dedicated to making incremental improvements to Drupal.

If you have an interest in making Drupal better, I suggest you start contributing code. It is the only way to add new features.

lba’s picture

Most of the features you are asking about here are actually available in modules... Just use the powerful and very cleanly implemented extension possibilities of Drupal...

Core is, and needs to be, kept as generic as possible. It shouldn't contain more than what is realistically needed by the vast majority of users. That's what the contrib modules are for... To provide the functionality that somebody felt was needed on top of what core already did.

Most of the contrib modules still need some love to be ready for 4.7, but check out the list of modules for 4.6 and you'll see that almost everything you're looking for is already there.

Cheers,
Luc

Zethris1’s picture

Business executives and regular people looking for a CMS don't have time to rifle through pages and pages of that crap. They are looking for a CMS that, out of the box, will immediatly fit their basic needs quickly. Typead and Wordpress do that right now. Drupal can too. It's not so hard.

Modules just end up being a crutch, and a system clogging mish mash of redundant code. While it's good to enhance a lot of things for people in the know, including a more prefered way to do a captcha for instance, or inline images by adding a module that customizes it. Ultimatly, a basic system needs to be put in place for things like this to attract the majors.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

robertDouglass’s picture

You are beginning to sound like someone telling Linus Torvalds that without a good chat client, nobody will be interested in the Linux kernal. Go make a distribution that you, executives and regular people want. Put the captcha and inline modules (they exist, don't even have redundant code) into a tarball and upload it to sourceforge. Recent directions have been to take things out of core (moderation, queue), not put them in.

Inline images will eventually make it into core, imo, as a part of a larger improvement to file handling.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My sites: HornRoller.com, RobsHouse.net

my Drupal book | Twitter | Director, Product Operations Commerce Guys

Wyld’s picture

I have to say that I agree. I think something like security permissions over taxonomy is a central part of many sites, and would be another reason to use Drupal over another system. For all of it's amazing features, this is the single sticking issue for me to implement it within any site more than just a hobby location.

If the module is updated, and doesn't need to rely on a patch, then thats great. We need it. A few months back I decided against Drupal for a site because of this alone. I'm happy to upgrade core and modules, but as a developer, I have to draw the line somewhere.

This feature is the missing control we need.

--
Wyld :: Weaving the Web since 1492

Zethris1’s picture

I would say anything security related, and spam protection related should be built in by default. I get maybe 100 people a day to my website right now, yet I get spam comments and trackbacks like crazy already. If adding proper security requires making a basic system like a captcha, or the taxonomy security you guys were talking about, it should be in the core so that it's always updated. with modules that act more as cusomizers/modifiers than stand alone modules.

The problem now, there are tons of modules, and for each one an administrator has to first find it, then install it, and then as time goes on keep not only those modules updated but the core too. It takes way too much time, and is extremely messy right now for anyone with less than a good working knowledge of php programming already, and has been doing this for a while. Unfortunatly, most of the decision makers are business majors, not software and computer majors.

If a basic system was put in place for basic out of the box features in the core that many other CMS's have, but have modules further customize these boxed features at the administrators discression, drupal would hit the magical level of greatness!

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying get rid of modules, but add in basic features, so that those looking for a fast trim cms with bare necessities (which is a large part of the market) they will choose Drupal over ther other. WHat I am saying is then add kind of a "module light" line of thinking to further customise these basic features. So they are hooked like crazy. That way the more tech savvy can modify things and add things, like change the captcha system to require 4 text in picture identifications before proceeding, for example, without a problem,

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

deepesh’s picture

I am a newbie to Drupal (or CMS as whole) , can I see v 4.7 in ACTION somewhere.

Deepesh Agarwal,
http://www.freeware-alternative.uni.cc/

robertDouglass’s picture

This site runs the latest.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My sites: HornRoller.com, RobsHouse.net

my Drupal book | Twitter | Director, Product Operations Commerce Guys

Zethris1’s picture

It's great progress. I really appreciate the love and care you guys are putting into this project. I am just syaing that the focus on a few things should change a bit. Or things could hit a wall sooner than later.

4.7 when I installed it i noticed right away a lot of changes made. Many make large improvements in things that 4.6 didn't quite have right. ANd it is about twice as fast for me too. At least. I don't use it int he public yet, but on my test server it's running great.

My point of all this is just that even though it runs great for us, and 4.7 is indeed an exciting release for those who have been here even a little while, it is still going to be very difficult for people of the general populace to use and customise the way they want. I guess I could go so far as to say the core is entirely TOO basic, in a way. Relying on the mess of modules too much. So rather than just one open source project, you have over 100 projects in module form too. Thats not a feasable undertaking for any business not directly relating to tech, by tech's, and most webloging/CMS people just wanting a good system to publish on.

Visit http://www.thinkingpost.net to add your thoughts and ideas to the community.

sepeck’s picture

Your account is two weeks old. You say in another post that you have been hanging around for six months. That kind of shows you haven't been involved, just site(sight) seeing. This is not a bad thing as research is important, but all of your arguments are repeats of many past discussions. Not registering until recently also means you may have missed many discussions because until you login you miss important tools like tracker. Here's a good page for you, Drupal.org readme

You use words like 'major reform asap' and 'should' and phrases like 'no business would'. First, there is no someone you are not paying 'should' or 'has to' do for you. As to 'no business would', well, there are lots of businesses that use and sell Drupal services so not a good argument either nor would any business do what you tell it unless you pay it to. Major reform asap? This is good.... evidently the solid steady progress that has been made over time to become a solid foundation that attracted you is working just fine thank you very much.

Personally, I don't make money off Drupal so I don't really care if it competes with other CMS's out there. I only care that it is the best at what I need it to do. There are people who do care. These active people continue to contribute work (code, ui, qa, testing, feedback, docs) to help improve things. So far, the vast majority of active contributors seem to be on board with refining core to an essential framework to accomplish things that can then be seriously customized with contributed or custom modules.

Your continued insistence that Drupal 'should' have captcha built in shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the direction that Drupal has long evolved in. I personally think captcha is a waste of time and there are other more passionette anti-captcha avocates with accessability concerns worldwide. My cousin is locked out of many web sites because of captcha garbage.

As to the order of development and release.... this is not a secret and pretty much a firmed up practice with the other projects I have been involved with in the past. You want to influence direction, then you have to get involved and contribute work. Drupal evolves over time as people you don't know contribute work. This is maddening for some people, but long term it means I am still using it two years later.

On 'to many modules'.... yep flexibility and control has a downside. If a 'packaged' everything but the kitchen sink in one download approach worked for you, then you wouldn't be looking at Drupal now would you?

As to needing to know php to keep up with Drupal use. I have 13 sites for friends, families personal and business use and a non-profit. I still do not know php. It's been two years. I am living proof that you don't have to know php to use Drupal. I probably should start learning some at some point.

Core is basic on purpose because the sites I want to build have no releation to the sites you want to build. That is on purpose and by design. This is to allow for flexibility, control and the maximum posible amount of sharing by sharing individuals of components and modules and code. This means that your Drupal based site could look nothing like mine in form or function.

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

SeanK’s picture

I do not promote a business site with Drupal.

I do work on sites which gather over 6M hits a day, so I have some experience with high-traffic sites and their management.

I have no problems with the core of Drupal as it is.

I have never had a single problem installing a module if it was built and documented correctly. A easier way to install a set or collection of modules would be nice, but that's up to me (or us) to build, isn't it?

I do not need the sames things as you on my site. Nobody needs the sames things. Every site is, hopefully, different.

If I need additional functionality of any type, I look for a module, or build it, or offer to pay someone to build it.

If a module does not inculde the amount of security required to use it safely, I don't ot I offer to fix it.

Any good programmer knows how to use the core code without adding much redundant code. If they don't, offer to fix it, or create a better version or new module all together.

My point? If you don't like it, don't pitch a fit about it, do something. If you can't write code, then contribute funds, resources, testing, anything to be helpful. Please don't just say "Here's what's wrong, so fix it" and assume that because it's not the way you want it that it is broken.

drupalfan’s picture

Is the beta stable enough for day-to-day use? (I've really anticipated the new block position possibilities.) Also, is there a changes file detailing the new end-user features?

Ed

Wi-Fi Living

Toe’s picture

The official position around here is that live production sites should never run anything but a final release version. Of course, if you've got a non-public web space somewhere you can test the beta, you're absolutely welcome to. And post any bugs you find. :)

Zethris1’s picture

Drupal may never be a true mission critical CMS, and unless something changes drastically with the community attitude, and the way things are developed by balancing core with modules a lot more, and not rely entirely on modules, it just wont get much futher than it already is. TIme is money, right now it has taken about 6 months to come to know what I know, and obviously you can tell it is still limited by your elitists standards.

If things aren't more intuitive, right quick, things aren't going to ever move beyond where drupal is right now in popularity. You want to know how I found drupal? When talk of the old Tech TV alumni making a weekly podcast came out, and eventually turned into thisweekintech.com. A fairly popular podcast now, and an example of why you need to cater to large websites to further spread the word of drupal around by making it more apealing to them.

If someone like most of us here, who knows PHP very well, and knows much more than the average person (average people who more then 50% of your possible customer base in the market would be by the way) still has trouble with getting this thing to run the way it needs to for application in a custom venue, it's just not going to wash with most medium to large businesses/websites, which is where your major word of mouth will come from

Consider these questions: There is a reason why not everyone is using drupal right now. Why do you think that is? It's not the features, the abilities, and the flexibility of the Drupal CMS in it's current state, but it's indeed something else, or somethings else. Primarily that is both alienating drupal from being considered for production mission critical website usage in the main stream.

Is it a pride issue? If so, I suggest dropping it and going ahead and use wordpress and typead as examples, if even only slightly to see that implementing logicaly thought out default items into core (which can still be easily disabled, much easier than downloading and installing a module), such as security/spam preventative measures, makes all the difference from a businessman standpoint. I suspect that this is obvious and the main dev's do know this at least.

Where does drupal want to be in the next couple years? Small fries? a little known secrect? a CMS that isn't considered "professional" by some eyes because it's not wordpress or typead? WHy couldn't drupal be the trend setters by taking what works, as proven by other CMS's and then expressing your obvous tallents at other great features that drupal already has but others don't?

If anything all this is just to plant seeds of thought in your minds in the hopes that it might influence the development process just slightly so that you can begin to ask yourselves these questions as the months go by and future development continues.

I will be going silent again, until I can see a better time where what I can contribute may be more welcome, and also more able to fit with drupal and it's community I will be a shadow again.

I look forward to seeing what else comes out. If I happen to have time, I will eventually make my copy of drupal do what I want. Thats a given, because it can. SO thats why I will be sure to keep using Drupal. Right now, it just takes too darn long to get there, so outside of us, and myself, drupal is being passed on daily right now by people who have the volume, money, and power, to make drupal mainstream because they will see a lot of what I have been talking about, plus their own take on things too. For the sake of changing the world with a great CMS solution, don't let this happen much longer!

eaton’s picture

...People who don't consider a CMS 'Professional' if it's not Wordpress or MT are confused about what a CMS is.

Drupal is not a turnkey blogging solution, and it never will be. That's a feature, not a bug. If you're really concerned that lack of a Wordpress-class turnkey blogging solution is going to harm Drupal in some way, I'd encourage you to dive in and work with others to figure out how to create an application-specific distribution of Drupal that does fill that need.

I won't be using it, as I'm building sites that would require ripping all of that functionality out and replacing it with other code. But I'm sure there are people who would get a lot out of it.

I have no problem telling friends that WP or MT is a much better option for them if all they want to do is put up a blog. I don't mean to minimize your concerns at all -- and I don't want you to feel that I'm flaming you or telling you to 'shut up.' I'm just trying to figure out what concrete steps you're suggesting -- other than making the Drupal core install a blogging tool rather than a CMS framework.

Several of your earlier posts seem to indicate a few underlying misconceptions about how the core Drupal system works. There is no difference, functionally, between a contributed module in the 'modules' section and a module that is rolled into the Drupal core. In fact, the developers working on core code have already identified a list of contrib modules that must be updated for 4.7 before things can be considered 'ready for prime time.' They realize that real world sites depend on more than just core. That doesn't mean, though, that every site depends on the same set of contrib modules.

--
Jeff Eaton | I heart Drupal.

sepeck’s picture

If you want something, then get involved. People provided links and information to you on how to achieve this. If you are not involved in helping out, then you get what you put in.

Please understand, What you get out of Drupal depends on what you put in. If you want change, then you need to work for it. Anyone can contribute but you seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings on why Drupal is so strong. You seem to assume that it's strengths are weaknesses and evidently no amount of links and information will change that. You want to cater to 'big business' and rake in the bucks that 'we' are missing out on? Then build a custom distribution like CivicSpace has for their market. Work to develop the consulting field like Bryght does with marketing and conferences.

I know the This Week in Tech website. (often thought of donating a theme so they're not using a default one too).

We get folks coming by to lecture the community on why we don't know anything and will fail about every few months. Then they say they're too busy to help and we would succeed if we'd only listen to them. It's repetitious. You want to help? Good, dig in and start. Docs, code, forum support answers, GUI interface mockups, etc... Join in get familier with the community.

The list of larger sites using Drupal is growing. The list of people contibuting back and focusing is growing. The nature of their contributions is becoming more refined. We have some folks who are focused on large site implementations now helping draw attention to issue's you won't see unless you have huge sites. Even better, they're are contributing back their solutions from they're perspective and discussing with the community a forum/format that they believe will get even better quality feedback and involvement from that segment.

As to using other 'professional' packages, they have their niche and market. It's a big world, lots of room.

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

styro’s picture

Drupal may never be a true mission critical CMS

What the hell does that mean? It's like saying Oracle will never be a mission critical database because it's hard to configure and has a long steep learning curve.

If things aren't more intuitive, right quick, things aren't going to ever move beyond where drupal is right now in popularity.

LOL! You mustn't be aware that Drupal is one of the quickest growing open source projects around - both in user numbers and in mindshare with some big name sites using it. The drupal.org infrastructure has at times recently had difficulty keeping up - some big generous players have donated a ton of hardware and datacentre capacity to help out with that growth.

Drupal is what it is, and that is obviously good enough for the userbase to grow exponentially - whether or not there is a captcha module in core.

it's just not going to wash with most medium to large businesses/websites,...

You mean like the ones that choose CMSs like Vignette?

...which is where your major word of mouth will come from

On the contrary, the medium to large businesses/websites generally like to keep knowledge of what system they use fairly quiet. They like to appear as though they developed their own.

I will be going silent again, until I can see a better time where what I can contribute may be more welcome, and also more able to fit with drupal and it's community I will be a shadow again.

What exactly was your contribution? After knowing nothing of Drupals design goals, you tell the core team that they need to bundle into core an inline image module (which they already intend to) and a captcha module (which they explicitly don't want to do).

I'm sure contributions of that depth and breadth of strategic vision will be sorely missed when you go quiet. But I have quiet confidence that project will survive that setback.

--
Anton